S3 Pinging after Revo stage 2

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
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timing pull of 9.8CF is not ok

they're either fobbing you off or have no clue

It is not right
 

superkarl

MAN OF STEEL
also its a 'stage 2' producing 18psi and its only showing 149G/S.
My stock map would consistently produce 190odd.
 

antwan64og

Registered User
The first log shows a log of 155 G/S at 18.1 psi thats not enough air for 200hp on pump gas.

There must be something majorly wrong going on with car.

The map sensor is seeing 18.1 psi but 60-80hp are missing....

Bad MAF??
 
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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
could it be the Stock Tip?????

Stock tip won't cause low airflow like that... a standard S3 pulls around 180gs... mapped they are 200 and up..

This supports Bills earlier suggestions... Faulty under reading MAF will cause the map to work in the lower load areas where there is higher timing advance... the ECU uses this, sees the knock as its too much timing for the conditions and pulls it back...

I would replace the MAF (assuming you haven't already) but it needs to be a genuine one so I guess for you thats a trip to the dealer unless you can get genuine Bosch MAF's from somewhere

<tuffty/>
 

16Klappe

Man Boost!
Supporter
could it be the Stock Tip?????

No. Because it is performing miles under standard spec.

There is something seriously wrong with your car, listen to what I have told you multiple times...Take it back, get your money back by complaining to Revo and take it to a specialist that knows what they are doing.
 

Booth1982

Registered User
Stock tip won't cause low airflow like that... a standard S3 pulls around 180gs... mapped they are 200 and up.. This supports Bills earlier suggestions... Faulty under reading MAF will cause the map to work in the lower load areas where there is higher timing advance... the ECU uses this, sees the knock as its too much timing for the conditions and pulls it back... I would replace the MAF (assuming you haven't already) but it needs to be a genuine one so I guess for you thats a trip to the dealer unless you can get genuine Bosch MAF's from somewhere
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
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load% needs to be logged also
if ecu thinks its low load (from under reading maf for example) it will be running ign timing to suit that lower load.. BUT it will run too much timing.

If this log is same as he saw and he left you with it set like this its **** poor so called tuning

log 002,020,118 blocks (not individual)

BUMP
 

Acheron

Registered User
Hey guys,

I work with Booth and have been trying to assist where possible. Unfortunately my experience lies with the 8P models (having owned the 8P A3 and S3 in years past).

@16Klappe: You keep pushing for him to return the car and get a refund, but unfortunately Revo is the closest (still 300km) tuner for the vehicle. The next would be almost 1000km away so unfortunately Revo is the best option even though those who loaded/configured it may not aware of how bad the logs are (both the results and the extent to which logs have been done...which, between us, I concur looks half-*****). Booth's best option for now is to have the timing/boost reduced via SPS and stay away from WOT until the necessary fixes/additional mods are installed.

@badger5/@tuffty//etc: I have VCDS, but again my experience lies with the 8P model. Can someone provide me with a consolidated list of ALL the groups (or individual parameters) needed to be logged to judge the overall health of the car, i.e. not just what Revo has chosen to log or the additional suggested groups in this thread.

As for it being a potential MAF issue I recall being able to pick up a bad MAF by unplugging the MAF while on idle and if the idle does not change the MAF is likely poked. Worth a shot?
 
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16Klappe

Man Boost!
Supporter
This new tagging thing is really annoying.
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
Hey guys,

I work with Booth and have been trying to assist where possible. Unfortunately my experience lies with the 8P models (having owned the 8P A3 and S3 in years past).

@16Klappe: You keep pushing for him to return the car and get a refund, but unfortunately Revo is the closest (still 300km) tuner for the vehicle. The next would be almost 1000km away so unfortunately Revo is the best option even though those who loaded/configured it may not aware of how bad the logs are (both the results and the extent to which logs have been done...which, between us, I concur looks half-*****). Booth's best option for now is to have the timing/boost reduced via SPS and stay away from WOT until the necessary fixes/additional mods are installed.

@badger5/@tuffty//etc: I have VCDS, but again my experience lies with the 8P model. Can someone provide me with a consolidated list of ALL the groups (or individual parameters) needed to be logged to judge the overall health of the car, i.e. not just what Revo has chosen to log or the additional suggested groups in this thread.

As for it being a potential MAF issue I recall being able to pick up a bad MAF by unplugging the MAF while on idle and if the idle does not change the MAF is likely poked. Worth a shot?
8p is'nt much different to log to 8l
002,003,020 blocks
003.020,118 blocks

not advanced measuring just the normal grouped ones
 

Acheron

Registered User
This new tagging thing is really annoying.
Well haven't you been a bright ray of sunshine this entire thread? :rolleyes:

Thanks for the pointers in the right direction to the rest of you helpful lot. Will assist Booth with some logging once his TIP arrives/settings have been reduced via SPS :thumbs up:
 

Booth1982

Registered User
Hi Guys just an update. I have now tried to change the settings with a sps switch. my settings are at the moment. (B6 T2 F9)
that is apparently the default stage 2 setting for my car. I was told to change the setting to B5 T0 and leave the fuel.

but I cant get the sps to communicate with my ecu. I will be trying again on monday. with an older version of the sps.
 

Acheron

Registered User
and what are you doing about your under reading maf dude?
thats whats causing it to run lower load/too much timing

He's going to reduce the Revo boost/timing settings before we relog with some decent fuel in the tank, making further WOT pulls "safer".
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
He's going to reduce the Revo boost/timing settings before we relog with some decent fuel in the tank, making further WOT pulls "safer".

As Bill said mate... fairly pointless if you don't change the obviously faulty MAF... load recognition will be all over the place...

<tuffty/>
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
He's going to reduce the Revo boost/timing settings before we relog with some decent fuel in the tank, making further WOT pulls "safer".

MAF dude..
and here's why it can effect the applied timing.
MAF is primary input for the ecu determining 'load' and as you can see from the ign maps pictured below, the X axis load% IF somewhere in the highighted areas in terms of load (which can be logged in 002/003/115 areas in vcds) will mean its running higher ign than it should.. for the boost its running the far right column is where it would be operating in.. and would be the appropriate ign in that column (subject to revo's scaling sps adjustments)
So, if mafs under reading, you are adjusting the symptom not necessarily the cause.

http://badger-5.com/bin/BAM-ign-maps-stock.JPG
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
It should just work although there may be a small period of adaption from the ECU as you initially drive after fitment especially if it was way out like yours was...

Give it a few miles then log as before in VCDS and post up

<tuffty/>
 

Booth1982

Registered User
ok cool. will have to go for a drive after work. Hopefully that sorts my issues. thanks for all the good replies!!!
 

Acheron

Registered User
Just helped Booth with a quick code clear and engine adaption reset via VCDS. Hopefully this will help things along a bit quicker.
 

Acheron

Registered User
After clearing codes/adaptions yesterday and Booth having driven around we scanned the car again this afternoon to see if any codes were present (there were none).

Interestingly enough when I looked at fuel trim values I saw that the idle trim had not adjusted past %0 (post yesterday's adaption clear), yet partial trims seem to have compensated hugely.
 

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<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
The fuelling adaption is no doubt because you still have the 4bar FPR in... the ECU is adapting the extra fuel out as a 4 bar FPR is not required... also shows that the software is not coded for a 4 bar FPR...

<tuffty/>
 

Acheron

Registered User
Thanks tuffty. Booth will reinstall the old FPR tonight, drive it around and we'll see if the values have changed tomorrow.

We'll do a full logging session over the weekend when I've got some time.
 

<tuffty/>

Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow...
Staff member
Moderator
I would be checking the fuelling too at some point just so you know where its sat... its odd that Revo specify you need one when in the UK and Europe at least you don't....

Not sure if they have had issues before in your neck of the woods with fuelling issues which made them think they need to fit a 4bar FPR but if you can get away with not using one the fuel pump will thank you for it...

<tuffty/>
 

badger5

www.badger5.co.uk
Site Sponsor
their revo agent clearly knows shag all about these cars or software

-14% is confirmation of 4bar is not suitable for this code. Revo stage2 K03 cars get spec'd to use 4bar but not k04 cars. Ever!
 

Acheron

Registered User
Ok the 4-bar was removed and Booth drove around for the day once again before we rechecked the trims.

They did not even move. Still 0% idle and -14.8% partial. With the car started an idling the control bank sensor % fluctuated between -2%% and +9%. I then reset the adaptions (cleared codes), idle remained 0% and partial reverted to 0%. At this point the control bank sensor fluctuated vastly, but idle adaption remained at 0% for the +/- 5min the car was idling for.
 

Booth1982

Registered User
I don't know if this is going to make any difference but. The car has had a N249 Delete. I have fitted a catch can that has got an airfilter ontop. it is not going back to the tip. the Car is using the stock airbox with a K&n drop in filter. I am still awaiting delivery on silicone tip.
 
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