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S3 (8P) daily and track day car

psmurphy Feb 19, 2017

  1. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Had a few track day cars in the past (R33 GTST Skyline and Evo 3) incidentally I also owned and raced a Rotax Max FR125 kart between owning the Skyline and Evo which was gret fun but hard work !

    I have now decided to downsize to owning a single car as both my daily driver which I can take on track and will be doing this with my S3

    I did a lot of work to my Skyline and Evo in terms of tuning, handling and brake modifications and they were both stripped out and at times it was hard work getting parts (especially for the Evo) so hopefully getting the work I want done on the S3 will be a much more relaxing

    If your interested I have a website covering the build of my Evo 3

    Initial plan for the S3 is to get the most out of the stock k04 turbo so a stage 2+ remap along with some basic suspension and brake mods. Will also be fitting fit bucket seats

    Hopefully this thread will be useful for some

    This is my S3 the day I bought it

    s_20170213_172254.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
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  3. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Took the 2 din unit out of my previous daily which was a 350z and had it fitted in the S3

    s_20170218_104156z.jpg


    20170218_122050.jpg
     
  4. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Before buying the S3 I visited a local Audi Revo specialist and they made the right noises for me to source an S3 and px my 350z. At the time I was considering supercharging the 350z but they are very impractical and to supercharge it would have cost me more that it was to buy my S3 and I would have needed to buy supporting mods on top of getting the zed supercharged so an S3 it was

    The following will be done with regards to the stage 2+ map, suspension and brake mods, parts are currently on order so once they arrive I will book the S3 in for the work to be done

    Stage 2+ map
    Fuel pump
    Revo induction kit
    Full turbo back exhaust with sports cat
    New turbo gasket and nuts

    Front and rear anti-roll bars
    Lowering springs

    Front and read pads (Ferodo DS2500) and braided brake lines

    Full wheel alignment

    Will post an update when the work is done
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  5. s3_trev

    s3_trev Northern Ireland Team Brill Red TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter Audi S3 Manual

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    You are beginning down a well trodden path mate, any questions let us know :)

    You will probably want to get rid of the OEM shocks pretty fast, if you are planning on tracking the car.

    Welcome to the forums too btw!
     
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  6. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    The S3 is now stage 2+ mapped and enjoying the gains feels quicker than my Evo 3 which was 340bhp but only around 1200kg in weight.

    Work done as follows

    revo stage 2+ remap
    milltek downpipe and turbo back exhaust with black tips and sports cat
    revo induction kit
    lowering springs
    stage 2 organic clutch and duel mass flywheel
    ferodo brake pads
    brake lines
    fuel pump
    front and rear arbs
    full geometry setup

    as previously mentioned i need to sort out the shocks any recommendations?

    also plan to put the s3 on a dyno in the next few weeks

    i have a track session booked in at the end of july so hope to have replaced the shocks and a bucket seat and harnesses fitted by then. any recommendations for a bolt in harness bar?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  7. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    what shocks/dampers would you recommend?
     
  8. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Team Ibis TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter Audi S3 DSG

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    I've tried kW v3 and CLubsport,and will be able to give you a comparison with Bilstein B16 soon.

    My biggest problem with the kW gear is the range of adjustments is huge,and makes getting things right very difficult.
     
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  9. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Did a dyno run - expecting a little more than this (299 bhp at the fly) so will need to investigate further
     

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  10. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Team Ibis TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter Audi S3 DSG

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    Hi there...I just thought I'd add a few comments re the Bilstein vs kW setups I've had.

    Firstly kW v3..

    Vast improvement over the stock suspension,especially when combined with uprated ARBs,which are an absolute must on this car.
    Huge range of adjustments,which is great in one respect,but can leave you feeling you've never got the best balance,but overall,very good.


    kW Clubsport....

    This was my effort at trying to get a bigger range of front camber adjustments,to accomadate not only some negative camber,but also use that to squeeze wider rims and tyres under the arches to improve traction.

    This uses adjustable front topmounts,and also has linear rate as opposed to rising rate springs.

    The range of adjustments is larger even than with the v3s,and did get to be a pain,but is a far more track oriented system,and may be useful if that's what you really want.
    I've got a used Clubsport system for sale in the classifieds,but one of the rear dampers needs a rebuild for a leak....kW can easily do this.


    Bilstein B16....

    I think for me,this is the best road oriented system I've had,and seems very well balanced in terms of damping control and ease of setup.
     
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  11. HHS3

    HHS3 Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+ Team Phantom Silver Supporter Audi S3 Manual

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    You've had some nice motors, lovely Evo there.

    Do you mind me asking how much both the parts and labour cost for the above?

    You're only getting 299hp at Revo Stage 2+, something is definitely not right there! Now I know that Revo's software is seriously lacking nowadays for the 8P as they haven't supported it in over 4/5 years, but that's still well below the expected minimum figures for stage 2+. If you look at the likes of Unicorn, R-Tech & APR then people are getting between 360-380hp & 370-400lbs. I wish I had looked into it more when I went stage 1 as I would've gone down the Custom Remapping route with R-Tech as they're the closest, rather than Revo..

    Have you checked to see if you've got a boost leak? It's also worth checking to see if your diverter valve has split. I as well as many others would recommend the GFB Diverter Valve+, it's only £100 and makes a huge difference by holding boost much better then the OEM Rev G or D DV's. Looking at your your list then I'd also get the RS4 fuel pressure return valve as it helps to maintain 130bar (instead of dropping to 128 and climbing back up) which eliminates a flat spot around 5K that lots of people found before.
     
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  13. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    cant quote on the costs for the gaskets or braided line as i got all the work done at once

    i have the s3 booked in at unicorn in stockport in a few weeks for a dyno run so hopefully they can see whats up if anything and also to discuss my future plans for the s3
     
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  14. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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  15. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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  16. HHS3

    HHS3 Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+ Team Phantom Silver Supporter Audi S3 Manual

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    No worries.

    Good man, Rick at Unicorn is the guy to go to, he'll be able to sort it out for sure.

    Both of the links you've provided are the correct parts, Rick may say the RS4 FPFR is not needed as he has his own tricks but I'd still 100% recommend the GFB DV+ regardless of the outcome, it's the best DV by far.

    Love the Skyline, bet that was an absolute joy to drive!

    You have created this thread in the correct section, however you'd get a lot more views if you get it moved to the Audi A3/S3 sub-forum instead (ask a moderator) or duplicate there, I've been on here for two years (only active past year tbf) and have never come across this sub forum until today haha.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
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  17. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    cheers HHS3 for confirming the parts\links
     
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  18. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro TDi

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    Hi , Nice looking project. Hope you don't mind I moved it to the A3 8P section. More people will see it here.
    I used to race Rotax 125 for a few years at Wigan and GYG with the odd trip out to Rissington, Shennington etc.
    Rick will sort out the issues you have with the car if anybody can. Been up there a few times with my A4.
     
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  19. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Bought an obd2 bluetooth scanner and installed the mobile app torque obd check on my android phone for a few quid so i can monitor things

    cheap setup compared to fitting numerous gauges and looks to work very well

    the app is very customisable and you can setup several different dials/display screens

    Screenshot_2017-05-03-17-56-38.png
     
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  20. HHS3

    HHS3 Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+ Team Phantom Silver Supporter Audi S3 Manual

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    I'm a big fan of the OBD2 bluetooth scanner and Torque Pro app combo, especially for under a tenner. I've got one of the Xtrons Android head units which you can pick up for under £300, downloaded the app onto there which is a neat touch.
     
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  21. leshkin

    leshkin Hold my beer... VCDS Map User Team Sepang Audi S3

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    Ooooh, another progress thread that I missed? Following :)



    This is my Android HU with TorquePro running - pretty nice, but I rarely use the functionality as my OBD port has been permanently taken over by the P3cars Gauge:
    20170510_192130.jpg

    For dual purpose suspension, Bilstein B16 kit is in a league of its own, so I'm with @S3Alex there. I went for the fancy iRC switchable system mostly to have a simple method to quickly switch between comfort and harder adaptive settings. Three months or so on and I'm still loving it - definitely one of my favorite mods to the car.

    If you're after improving handling further, then check out an anti-lift kit, plus dog mount insert to get better turn-in and a generally better driver's setup. The insert adds cabin vibrations, but helps to reduce engine movement and had a good improvement when pushing-on.
     
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  22. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    i do like the p3cars gauge very neat solution

    thought id post up the dyno sheet from the dyno run i did a few weeks ago i mention earlier on in this thread

    2017-06-02 00.19.50.jpg
     
  23. HHS3

    HHS3 Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+ Team Phantom Silver Supporter Audi S3 Manual

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    Nice, I need to get round to routing my Android HU! Is that how you get your Torque Pro app dials to look like that?

    Rick will be able to tell you what's going on as that looks like stage 1 figures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
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  24. leshkin

    leshkin Hold my beer... VCDS Map User Team Sepang Audi S3

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    You should be able to reconfigure the dials without rooting the HU as it's part of the app features.

    Long press to edit existing dials and use different sizes to get the look you want.
     
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  25. HHS3

    HHS3 Phantom Black S3 - R-Tech Stage 2+ Team Phantom Silver Supporter Audi S3 Manual

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    Ah ok thanks, I've only looked at the needle/bar gauges (first two options), I prefer the bar type but didn't realise you could get different designs of them too!
     
  26. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    there are a lot of dials/sized i ended up going for the half dials after playing with it for a few hours and they show the max value and are the most readable imho
     
  27. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Yokohama Advan AD08R tyres fitted
     

    Attached Files:

  28. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Now have a plan as follows

    full service inc belts
    ksport big brake kit
    kw version 2 coilovers
    tte480 turbo upgrade with supporting mods
    bucket seats and harnesses

    plan to sort out the suspension and brakes first then the tte480 upgrade
     
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  29. S3_Mat

    S3_Mat Active Member

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    I would polybush the car of you can it makes a big difference. Im also a big fan of the bilsteins, the major point being able to adjust them from full hard to full soft without a jack in under 5 minutes. The kw v2s you want you wont be able to adjust the rear rebound without removing the shocks or cutting hatches in the boot liner - just a word of caution. Makes finding that suspension sweet spot harder at the track.
     
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  30. S3_Mat

    S3_Mat Active Member

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    Also strongly recommend you do the bottom end and valves spings to stop float if you go for the TTE480. A couple of people have had engines go on TTE420s.. piston ring lands have been letting go. Liking the build so far it will be a animal when its done.
     
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  31. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Team Ibis TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter Audi S3 DSG

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    I'd agree,and also say that the range of adjustments on the kW shocks is so wide that not only is adjusting them difficult due to placement of the rebound adjuster,but finding that sweet spot is incredibly difficult,and took me ages to get anywhere close to being right.

    The Bilsteins I have now are much easier to adjust,if less track oriented,but have superb control,and the car handles much better.

    Whilst doing the top and bottom ends isn't strictly necessary(and mine was fine up to 450bhp/450lbs on a bigger turbo than the TTE420),if you do uprate them,theres now a good range of pistons and rods to be had(mine are PEC rods and Wossner pistons),and after the head was built and flowed on mine,we swapped from Ferrea to Supertech valves and springs,as the QC is now better by all accounts on those.

    There really wouldn't be much to be had from raising the rpm limits,as the turbo will be pretty much done by the stock limits.
    The valvetrain on mine is good to over 8000rpm,but isn't run close to that,even with the turbo I have now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
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  32. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Thanks guys for the advice - keep it coming peoples exerience and feedback is invaluable :rockwoot:

    Bilstein shocks it is (PS10s)

    Spoken to Rich at Unicorn Developments and going for the tte480 - we wont be pushing it to its limit and at this stage not looking to do the bottom end so wont be stressing the turbo on track and it will run cooler than a tte420

    :greyrs4:
     
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  34. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Been out in the Yokohama Advan AD08R in the wet and dry now with spirited driving

    Fantastic type - very grippy, puts the grip down from 0 and they feel nice in the corners giving great feedback, there also pretty quiet, they give me a lot of confidence with chucking the S3 around

    I've used Federal 595RS in the past on my Skyline R33 and although its difficult to compare I would recommend the AD08Rs over the 595RS if I was asked
     
  35. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    Also did a dyno run at Unicorn Developments which produced 320bhp now this is lower than expected for a stage 2+ revo map but was due to the fact the battery had died on as I wasn't driving the audi due to illness for about 2 weeks.

    A dead battery resets some of the Revo map and one thing is alters is it will only boost to 1.1 bar and not 1.4 bar so lesson learnt is

    DONT GET A REVO MAP


    as at some point you will have a dead battery
     
  36. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    This is my shopping list covering suspenstion, brakes and the TTE480 upgrade, anything else to consider - bearing in mind I'm looking for a safe 420-430bhp on standard internals from the TTE480 and the S3 will do around 4 to 6 track days a year

    Full service and belts

    Bilstein B16 (PSS10) coilovers
    Powerflex anti-lift kit
    15mm spacers all round
    Front and rear adjustable whiteline droplinks (already have H&R arbs)
    Ultra Racing braces

    356x32 8 pot k-sport front brakes + pads
    EBC ultimax rear disc (already have good pads and braided lines)

    Sparco pro 2000 bucket seat (already have the rails)
    TRS 5 point harness

    TTE 480 hybrid turbo
    RS4 fuel pressure return valve
    GFB Diverter Valve+
    Wagner intercooler
    RS3 injectors
    LOBA upgrated fuel pump

    HEL 16 row oil cooler with sandwich plate \ thermo (92c)
     
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  37. leshkin

    leshkin Hold my beer... VCDS Map User Team Sepang Audi S3

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    TTRS LPFP and maybe a pump controller upgrade?
     
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  38. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    wrapped up the intake probs wont do too much but it all helps

    also trial fitted the seat rail which fitted spot on for the bucket seat which i got from sportseats4u
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 11, 2017
  39. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    whats the engine like for oil starvation? baffled sump required?
     
  40. S3_Mat

    S3_Mat Active Member

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    One more thing to add to your supension mods is adjustable front ball joints for the front. They are very worth while as they can give an extra 0.5 deg negative camber. Combined with a suspension drop up to -2deg is achievable. The stock camber at the front is roughly -0.5 deg with no adjustment and the only other way of adjust camber at the front is adjustable top mounts. The extra camber at the front makes the car much less likely to understeer and can get on the power earlier. Combined with the ARB's it will make the angle of the car far more adjustable on the limit.
     
  41. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Team Ibis TFSI Owners Group Gold Supporter Audi S3 DSG

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    I was running a lot of negative front camber,and would agree with some of that,in that understeer is a bit better,but the downside is the degree of straightline stability is lower,and I think there are better ways of getting traction,such as a Quaife or Wavetrac LSD.

    I've now gone back to a pretty standard degree of camber,and better front geometry and the handling and stability are way better,although it has to be said that running 245 section tyres did not help by pushing the centre line of the suspension out somewhat.
     
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  42. psmurphy

    psmurphy Member

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    suspension bits arrived along with rear discs thanks to awesome gti
     

    Attached Files:

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  43. leshkin

    leshkin Hold my beer... VCDS Map User Team Sepang Audi S3

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    Out of interest, what's the benefit of adjustable drop links? I understand that it's good for corner weighting but not sure if there is benefit in just replacing OEM units.
     

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