S tronic vs tiptronic

[ThatGuy]

Hello, I’m new here, probably this discussion has been done to death. But, search results returned 5 threads with s tronic issues and for tip 6 threads about maintenance ‍.

Anyway, I don’t have audi yet, but I’m looking to buy one soon. It’s going to be audi a4 b8 avant 3.0 tdi quattro auto or a5 same spec. So my search results on several evenings resulted in dsg (s tronic) is the best gearbox ever with shift times blink of an eye, feeling blah blah until it breaks and as far as I can tell it will eventually, even more so if you add extra Nm on top. Tiptronic on the other hand is decent ‍.

I will try to just drive the car with just a remap for a year or two (probably couple months), but inevitably I know I will modify something to have extra few hp and nm.
Knowing that, which gearbox is the way to go? It needs to hold..... let’s say ~800-900Nm. Oh, almost forgot, I need paddle shifts. I know dsg usually comes with those, but you can manually shift in tip, don’t you? Wouldn’t it be just as simple as fitting paddles and connecting some wires to shift from the steering wheel?


Tl;dr s tronic or tiptronic reliability in general or for 800nm; can you fit paddle shifts on both?

Thanks for your input.


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[ThatGuy]

Bump?


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[ThatGuy]

Really? I mean really no one has a clue? Not even an unhelpful try google reply?


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[jdp1962]

@ThatGuy , welcome to Audisport.net.

You started your thread in one of the less frequently viewed sections of the forum, which might explain the lack of replies. I've moved it to another area where it's more likely to be seen.

 

[desertstorm]

Have a read through Bobby Singh's @bobby singh thread on his A4 3.0 tdi.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/bobby-singh-a4-3-0-tdi-build-thread.248899/
I think the answer to your question is Tiptronic.

 

[Thundercliffe81]

Have a read through Bobby Singh's @bobby singh thread on his A4 3.0 tdi.
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/bobby-singh-a4-3-0-tdi-build-thread.248899/
I think the answer to your question is Tiptronic.

Yeah. Any mapping or torque boost...8 speed ZF is great. Solid. I've moved back to S-tronic recently and it just feels more urgent and ready to do something. So I'm enjoying that. Has its foibles as we all know though


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[Terminator x]

Afaik dsg is used at lowish torque levels then Audi switch to S Tronic when torque is too high. If high torque is the end game go ST imho.

Launch control in my RS3 was incredible though and needs to be experienced imho.

TX.

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[blackb9er]

According to Audi the s-tronic (dsg) can only handle a maximum of 500NM of torque thats why they put a tiptronic ZF in the 272hp version of the B9 A4

 

[bobby singh]

Both have advantages and disadvantages

TIP
Pros - hold good torque in stock form, cheapish to buy secondhand, rarely go wrong, can take 1000nm take off (tested)
Cons - gear change not as quick (but I can tune these now for quicker changes with add clamping pressure) and no LC

DSG
Pros - very quick changes, tuning is easier, can be upgraded to withhold high torque (cost approx 2.5k), has LC etc
Cons - Bad rep for issues, can slip with anything more than 700nm (unless tuned - even then max appears to be 750nm), expensive to repair, needs 40k oil change, can be lazy at lights and engaging reverse (software changes can improve this)

The above is not a full list but gives you a idea.

Worth noting more the newer high power TDI's and RS models all run TIP afaik

Cheers
Bobby

 

[Thundercliffe81]

Afaik dsg is used at lowish torque levels then Audi switch to S Tronic when torque is too high. If high torque is the end game go ST imho.

Launch control in my RS3 was incredible though and needs to be experienced imho.

TX.

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Love that warble 5 pot holding at 5k rpm(is it?). What a sound.


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[jdp1962]

Well that seems to have worked, doesn’t it?!

 

[jdp1962]

Afaik dsg is used at lowish torque levels then Audi switch to S Tronic when torque is too high. If high torque is the end game go ST imho.

Launch control in my RS3 was incredible though and needs to be experienced imho.

TX.

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I thought DSG and S-Tronic were the same thing.

 

[Thundercliffe81]

I thought DSG and S-Tronic were the same thing.

Me too


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[Terminator x]

Pedants! Auto then ***.

TX.

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[ThatGuy]

Thanks for replies, I’ve gathered pretty much same.
How about fitting paddles to tip if it doesn’t have those? Me thinks should be possible. Buy a steering wheel with those and connect some wires to some wires under gearstick ‍ or get a spare wheel and just mock paddles yourself. Am I right?


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[desertstorm]

I think you will find it's not that simple otherwise people would have done it.

 

[jdp1962]

Very definitely not that simple. You need to swap the steering wheel for one that has paddles built into it. But getting the right wheel for your car can be a minefield; there are so many variations depending on which model and build-year you have, and whether the existing wheel already has multi-function switches. Even then, you might also need a different airbag and, possibly, a different slip-ring.

People have spent fortunes buying the wrong kit; my solution in these matters is to pay an expert to supply and fit the right stuff. His name is @NHN.

 

[ThatGuy]

I want 3.0 diesel with paddle shifts and finding those are like finding needle in a haystack. Finding paddle shifts on a diesel on tip tronic is like there are no needles. And in total finding an exact car with things in it that I want is like there’s no haystack to look through to begin with. By installing paddles myself, I’ll narrow down the search quite much.

Not to insult anyone, but as far as I’ve seen there are a lot of fancy pants who buy cars and can’t use a spanner on it.

Just bear with me for a moment. You can shift in manual mode on tip, right? You move gearstick up or down for + -. Me thinks there is switch that gets bumped or whatever trigger mechanism to let ecu know, now’s the time to shift up or down. If I were to get to that trigger, solder a wire extension that leads to my steering wheel and simulate the switch action for ecu? In other words everything is left stock but the switch gets relocated to a different place (but it won’t). That should work. Am I wrong?



What’s a slip ring? How much paddle wheel goes for around your parts?

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[jdp1962]

Not to insult anyone, but as far as I’ve seen there are a lot of fancy pants who buy cars and can’t use a spanner on it.

Actually, you have just insulted me, there. My ability to apply a spanner to my car is virtually zero, but so what? And why does that make me a "fancy pants"?

 

[ThatGuy]

Actually, you have just insulted me, there. My ability to apply a spanner to my car is virtually zero, but so what? And why does that make me a "fancy pants"?

I’ve retorted to this particular statement: People have spent fortunes buying the wrong kit; my solution in these matters is to pay an expert to supply and fit the right stuff.

I’m not an expert myself but I haven’t bought anything with a word kit on it nor any expert supplied or fitted anything to any of my cars. I get it done myself. Guys who just buy a fast/good looking/whatever car and just show off how superior they are but need to google what’s that light on the dash and why it’s screaming at him. Yeah, I frown upon them. But what I was implying is that I have the abilities and spanners to do this kind of work myself, I don’t have the right knowledge of it, yet. Hence I’m here asking for it.
So what? So I’d like to get it from someone who has it himself. For example, would you ask about hunting bears and pelting from a guy who likes bears and has a pelt, which he bought or from a guy who actually hunted it down and skinned it himself? Not saying first guy couldn’t be knowledgeable, but I think we can both agree, second guy is a better guy for sourcing information.

As for fancy pants, here where I live, this particular car model is “fancy” and not easily accessible for average joe. It’s quite pricey. So assuming rich guys drive it. And same point again, I’d say 90% of fancy/good/pricey/upclass/etc. car owners couldn’t do an oil change.

Tho I don’t think you have spanner disability, you were just fishing. What else you would be doing here?


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[Thundercliffe81]

Well. That escalated...

In America I think they still do 'shop' as part of their curriculum. Am I right? Or am I hugely behind the times there? Either way, i think it was a great part of the education. I'm sure they learn how to drive younger too. So, with that and gaining some basic mechanical knowledge at school, there's a lot to be said for it.

Same can be applied to firearms and a safe, professional range. I'd like to know more about the basics. Changing brakes, dropping oil etc. So I'm going to learn and do so some things on my car. At work, I can drop the oil and grease up nipples on a banged up Landy but, they're basic jobs on a bucket haha. With some of the cars on here...heck, most cars in general now, you could screw the warranty. Couple that with the fact that certain things simply aren't easy to get to unless you have dealer specialised tools, and a mans pride could get the better of him.

My point? It's a car enthusiast/petrolhead forum. I love cars. Always have. I know a bit but I'm no mechanic. I wouldn't say we get many 'Shmee150' or 'Mr. JWW' types on here haha. It's not that elitist


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[jdp1962]

No, it didn't escalate; @ThatGuy, I think you saw something in my posts that wasn't what I was saying.

When I said people had spent fortunes buying the wrong kit, I was just saying what I and many other forum members have seen down the years; people who've bought a wheel or other item before checking if it was the right part for their car. It was intended as a cautionary tale, to counsel you against falling into the same trap, not an accusation that you'd already done so. And I won't rise to the many negative assumptions you've made about people who own a car like the one I and many other members on here own (and, it seems, you aspire to own yourself).

If you've got the skills to work on cars to some depth, including retro-fitting stuff, then you have my admiration; I said as much elsewhere in the recent thread on DIY servicing. All I ask is that you don't sneer or make adverse judgements about me because I have a "fancy" car but don't have those skills.

You ask what else I'd be doing here if not fishing. I'm not sure what you meant by fishing, but what I was doing was the same thing I've been doing in the fifteen years I've been a forum member; reading and learning, and occasionally offering some wisdom of my own. That's how I came to find your original post, tucked away in a part of the forum that doesn't get much traffic, and moved it to a place where I thought it was more likely to get you some responses. I like to think you'd agree that worked, even if you haven't yet got all the answers you want.

Getting back to your question about paddle shifts, all the wisdom I've acquired about Audis suggests to me that adding them to a car that doesn't already have them isn't a simple as you've suggested. You'll recall @desertstorm made much the same observation. I have no idea whatsoever whether the method you've suggested would work; possibly someone else more knowledgeable than me will come along with an opinion. But if no one does, one way to find out would be for you to put the skills you have (that I don't pretend to have) and give it go. If it did work, then I'd ask you to post a how-to guide on here to show other members how you did it. That would very definitely add value to the forum because it would be adding knowledge that presently it seems we don't have.

Oh, and a slip ring? My understanding (which may be faulty) is that it's a component that sits between the steering wheel and the steering column, and acts as an electronic communication channel passing signals and commands between the buttons and switches on the wheel and the rest of the car.

This forum is a fabulous community; chill out, try to resist the temptation to judge others, and you might find you like it here.

 

[Rideen]

Afaik 3.0 TDI doesn't even come with S-Tronic, does it?

 

[ThatGuy]

They do. Even facelift models with more kw and torque do. Took a ride couple days ago in one. As for paddles I’ll share my install if I’ll get one without.

While we are still on topic. How about some wiring diagrams of tranny or steering wheel or any technical info whatsoever. You live and learn.


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