RSQ3 RSQ3 & Macan - Faceoff

isleaiw

Registered User
I rarely do private sales and these tend to be older low value cars. WBAC on a 2009 TT £4000, sold for £5800 within 24 hours, new purchaser happy as Larry with usual disclaimers. Not sure where 9 months and £700 a month comes from in your example. I bought for 60, Dealer sold for £57500 and I pocketed £54.7k and that was over 18 month! Current car from Sept 69 plate so 16 month and figures look very similar. Dealers asking £57k, I should return £54-55k if I sell so.. 60 -55 divided by either 18 months ( 18-69) or 16 months currently so to be crystal clear this is no where near £700 a month.

As for pensions, each to their own on that one but mine aren't increasing by 7% in the current Pandemic Brexit bolloxcks environment.

I took the £55k as the trade price of your current one, knocked off a couple of grand for the dealer margin, and divided by 9 if it was a late 69 plate - oh and took just over 60k as 61k in true man maths style. Son in law works for a large dealer group so we are fully aware of margins and prices and where the profit is, and it is possible to run a new car cheaply if you buy well... but equally you can get stung. For example Porsche owners witter on about residuals on their cars and yet they are normally looking at dealer sale prices when the average margin on a secondhand porsche is £7k....

You need to do it yourself and remember its all about time in market, as I dont intend to retire this year, returns this year are irrelevant. However, dropping in a lump sum whilst prices were ;low back in April might have been a good idea ....
 

-Ju-

Registered User
VCDS Map User
It's my birthday
All these figures being bounded around are really mashing with my head lol
Buying the right car for you is the most important part imo and then If the reasonably sensible man maths work out then thats what matters......After all, buying the cars that we all love is never going to be sensible!
 

isleaiw

Registered User
All these figures being bounded around are really mashing with my head lol
Buying the right car for you is the most important part imo and then If the reasonably sensible man maths work out then thats what matters......After all, buying the cars that we all love is never going to be sensible!

Thats the most important bit - treat it as a sensible thing to do and you are kidding yourself but for me, its my hobby, its my money and nowt else spoiling as a result.

One day I will decide that spending less is important, but till then I will enjoy wasting my money on what I want to enjoy!
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
I took the £55k as the trade price of your current one, knocked off a couple of grand for the dealer margin, and divided by 9 if it was a late 69 plate - oh and took just over 60k as 61k in true man maths style. Son in law works for a large dealer group so we are fully aware of margins and prices and where the profit is, and it is possible to run a new car cheaply if you buy well... but equally you can get stung. For example Porsche owners witter on about residuals on their cars and yet they are normally looking at dealer sale prices when the average margin on a secondhand porsche is £7k....

You need to do it yourself and remember its all about time in market, as I dont intend to retire this year, returns this year are irrelevant. However, dropping in a lump sum whilst prices were ;low back in April might have been a good idea ....
We all know Porsche dealers have 9% margin in new cars and rarely give away much.. I’m getting rather more on a Targa4S than I should and reckon I can run for a year for next to nothing. What’s not to like.

checked the real figures on first B9 RS4... £313 a month depreciation and no costs at all!
 

isleaiw

Registered User
We all know Porsche dealers have 9% margin in new cars and rarely give away much.. I’m getting rather more on a Targa4S than I should and reckon I can run for a year for next to nothing. What’s not to like.

checked the real figures on first B9 RS4... £313 a month depreciation and no costs at all!

Cheap motoring. Shame it doesnt have backseats for the grandkids and a boot for the dog.... (the Porsche that is, not my thing!)
 
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cosmicblue

Registered User
+1

All bets are off IC powered vehicles now, the mass market wants EVs and 2021 will see lots of new models arriving against a back drop of rising unemployment and further business uncertainty, globally. The only, slightly perverse, chance we have over residuals is the likely crash out of the EU without a trade agreement in place - the list prices of imported new cars will likely rise by around 10%.
 

isleaiw

Registered User
+1

All bets are off IC powered vehicles now, the mass market wants EVs and 2021 will see lots of new models arriving against a back drop of rising unemployment and further business uncertainty, globally. The only, slightly perverse, chance we have over residuals is the likely crash out of the EU without a trade agreement in place - the list prices of imported new cars will likely rise by around 10%.

But a list price is irrelevant if people cant or wont pay it.

If I was buying a Porsche now it would be a Taycan. But if I was buying EV it would be Tesla Model 3 Performance for the package and the supercharger network.

So I'll keep my RS4 for a few more years, might swap my Mini runaround for an EV in a couple of years..... or use the RS4 for dailies and buy a last hurrah weekend car.... like an XKR convertible.
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
The list price is always irrelevant. Demand vs Supply for used cars is where the residuals might be slightly helped as there is a possibility that new car sales will falter a little.

I thought the Taycan was an EV? Tesla build quality isn't even close to Audi, supercharger not withstanding, the rest of the Tesla ownership experience is disappointing. We will be able to order the Taycan with an Audi badge towards the end of 2021 - the Q4 in Q4 :thumbs up:
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
Cheap motoring. Shame it doesnt have backseats for the grandkids and a boot for the dog.... (the Porsche that is, not my thing!)
The RS4 has plenty of room for dogs ( if you are into that sort of thing) and x2 grand-children and yes cheap motoring.
Of course I don’t expect free motoring but with sensible purchase and selling my motoring is relatively cheap.
As for the next 12 months those hardest hit will be those who can least afford it. The days of cheap EU cars for the masses is probably over until our Government stop behaving like Dads Army incompetents but that’s another subject.
4 pot Caymans were never popular hence big discount. Fortunately 911 is...we will see!
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
But a list price is irrelevant if people cant or wont pay it.

If I was buying a Porsche now it would be a Taycan. But if I was buying EV it would be Tesla Model 3 Performance for the package and the supercharger network.

So I'll keep my RS4 for a few more years, might swap my Mini runaround for an EV in a couple of years..... or use the RS4 for dailies and buy a last hurrah weekend car.... like an XKR convertible.

List price is indeed over inflated in some cases. Best deal I got with Audi PCP (withdraw) in 2013 was a £52k A7 for £38k those days are gone!
The Taycan is an EV and very nice too. My neighbour has a Tesla 3. Very competent but boring as hell IMHO , and the finish and styling, no thanks. As for the XKR a near neighbour is selling his lovely black V8 and buying a Lexus LC cab which despite rave reviews’ half price Aston’ looks awful.
It is very personal isn’t it so let’s agree to disagree.
 
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isleaiw

Registered User
The list price is always irrelevant. Demand vs Supply for used cars is where the residuals might be slightly helped as there is a possibility that new car sales will falter a little.

I thought the Taycan was an EV? Tesla build quality isn't even close to Audi, supercharger not withstanding, the rest of the Tesla ownership experience is disappointing. We will be able to order the Taycan with an Audi badge towards the end of 2021 - the Q4 in Q4 :thumbs up:

It is - what I was clumsily saying is that the best EV isnt the best EV but the one with the best charging network. I do regular 300 mile weekend runs in the RS4, to do that in an EV would probably mean stopping to charge on way home and there is no way I would risk that with the state of the charging network outside of Tesla currently.

Tesla's build quality isnt great but despite what RGBarG says they are great to drive in Model 3 P form - I have driven a friends, he loves it and his other car is a Caterham 420!

The etron GT (Audi Taycan) is likely to be heading for £100k and that is bonkers. So it will be the RS4 for a few more years I suspect. Or a BMW hybrid if they stick the 45e powertrain into a smaller estate, only the X5 or 5 series saloon so far. An M345e would be ideal....
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
It is - what I was clumsily saying is that the best EV isnt the best EV but the one with the best charging network. I do regular 300 mile weekend runs in the RS4, to do that in an EV would probably mean stopping to charge on way home and there is no way I would risk that with the state of the charging network outside of Tesla currently.

Tesla's build quality isnt great but despite what RGBarG says they are great to drive in Model 3 P form - I have driven a friends, he loves it and his other car is a Caterham 420!

The etron GT (Audi Taycan) is likely to be heading for £100k and that is bonkers. So it will be the RS4 for a few more years I suspect. Or a BMW hybrid if they stick the 45e powertrain into a smaller estate, only the X5 or 5 series saloon so far. An M345e would be ideal....
My neighbour with the Tesla 3 came from a BMW M and before that a V8 S3. He is still on honeymoon with the latest revised version but has several moans about finish, poor ride and unfriendly’nanny’ electrics. He like many was ‘forced’ down the Tesla route by fantastic deals targeting major employers.
As for Hybrids, totally pointless of you want to travel any distance. I recall an A3 hybrid where my 8 miles to the motorway were electric and 6 miles off at the other end. 300 motorway miles were petrol driven in a less than economical 150/204 PS engine which was no more economical than my S3 daily driver at the time.
As @isleaiw has said buy what you want as I do but ... buying and selling effectively rather than jumping on the EV bandwagon is my plan for a few more years.
 

isleaiw

Registered User
My neighbour with the Tesla 3 came from a BMW M and before that a V8 S3. He is still on honeymoon with the latest revised version but has several moans about finish, poor ride and unfriendly’nanny’ electrics. He like many was ‘forced’ down the Tesla route by fantastic deals targeting major employers.
As for Hybrids, totally pointless of you want to travel any distance. I recall an A3 hybrid where my 8 miles to the motorway were electric and 6 miles off at the other end. 300 motorway miles were petrol driven in a less than economical 150/204 PS engine which was no more economical than my S3 daily driver at the time.
As @isleaiw has said buy what you want as I do but ... buying and selling effectively rather than jumping on the EV bandwagon is my plan for a few more years.

My friend is similar, ex 340i T, C63, S4. Guess it just shows that what matters is what matters to you. I have no desire to go EV anytime soon but of the tax incentives / disincentives get sufficient, I will.
 

firecracker69

Registered User
I agree with your estimate for a green RSQ3. They are unlikely to have people queuing up. Choosing the right car, in a popular colour with the right options is the key to cheap motoring. Also doing a px whilst simple can cost thousands of £s. Since opting out of a company car scheme in 1994 I have always saved £4-500 a month into a car savings account and so far rarely have had to top this up to fund 2 main cars. But you do have to put in the effort which I actually rather enjoy. My second B9 RS4 audi-sport edition 69 plate cost just over £60k with C&S pack. Reckon they are still selling at £55k which is nowhere near £1000 a month loss on an M5.

Don’t see how that figure can be correct!? How long ownership is/was the 69 plate RS4?

my RS5 was £72k new, 6 months later £49k, so I fail to see how an RS4 has lost ONLY £5k!
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
Don’t see how that figure can be correct!? How long ownership is/was the 69 plate RS4?

my RS5 was £72k new, 6 months later £49k, so I fail to see how an RS4 has lost ONLY £5k!
My original RS4 registration 03/2018 sold September 2019. Big discount on purchase and good sale price. Nice though the RS5 is they don’t hold their value as well as the RS4. Think I got £8k plus discount on new car and a cracking price on resale. It can be done but takes a bit of work. Current values holding up well too, due to lack of supply and increased new prices and economic conditions. No discount and poor sale price clearly resulted in a very different ownership cost in your case @firecracker69
 
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firecracker69

Registered User
My original RS4 registration 03/2018 sold September 2019. Big discount on purchase and good sale price. Nice though the RS5 is they don’t hold their value as well as the RS4. Think I got £8k plus discount on new car and a cracking price on resale. It can be done but takes a bit of work. Current values holding up well too, due to lack of supply and increased new prices and economic conditions. No discount and poor sale price clearly resulted in a very different ownership cost in your case @firecracker69

Without going off topic, what price did you get the RS4 for?
Been looking recently and weighing up an RS4 or a Merc CLA45S.
I’d rather stick with Audi I think, but early days and currently both seem more than I’m willing to pay at the moment. Thought dealers would be doing great deals to move stock but appears not!
Just curious as to what kind of deal could be had and get an expectation. At the moment, excess of £60k with 10k miles is overpriced IMO.
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
After the drama and addictive aural sound track of a RSQ3 you'd likely be disappointed with a B9 RS4 - I was, having coveted one as my ultimate RS Audi. To this day I love the bulked-out rear shoulders and on-road presence of one. As a driving experience it's a great car, super competent at everything with a powerful engine up front but for me, devoid of any real character.

The RS4 engine is super high-tech bi-turbo technology, the RSQ3 engine is also high-tech but with an old-skool single turbo so there is turbo-lag, off-boost its swift, smooth and refined, on-boost its crazy, proper Jekyll and Hyde material.

So on your RSQ3 right now if you put your toe down, even a little bit your get a delicious snarl from the engine as it wakes up and tears off down the road - the RS4, on paper at least, is even quicker however it never feels it even with the Sports Exhaust option. Take a look at the RS246 forum and one of the common threads is exhaust noise.

Ultimately it comes down to what you want the car for - if you have a dog for example you'd go RS4 as the real load-lip is lower...
 

isleaiw

Registered User
Having had an RS5, I am sure he is well aware of the relative merits of the two cars.... but just wanted to know about prices.

@firecracker69 I bought my RS4 new as a stock car. It has a £35k GFV and costs £840 a month if you amortise the deposit over the 48 month term of the agreement, 8k miles a year.... I think in £ note terms I paid £64k and a little bit....

Hope that helps. It seems at the moment the lack of demand is more than matched by the lack of supply, with pandemic impacts on volumes and supply chain issues around chips for infotainment.
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
New, you'd need to find a stock car as RS4 production has ceased.

£840 a month over 48 months -you'll pay £40,320, and then a final payment of £35,000 - Total £75,320. Cost of credit circa £11k. Most likely you won't keep it for the duration I'm sure.

Mind you I bought the current weapon for £48k, new for cash with a close to £9k discount and intend to make use of the factory 5 year warranty (cancelled customer order) and will no doubt see the value plummet by £30k - another waste of money.
 

isleaiw

Registered User
New, you'd need to find a stock car as RS4 production has ceased.

£840 a month over 48 months -you'll pay £40,320, and then a final payment of £35,000 - Total £75,320. Cost of credit circa £11k. Most likely you won't keep it for the duration I'm sure.

Mind you I bought the current weapon for £48k, new for cash with a close to £9k discount and intend to make use of the factory 5 year warranty (cancelled customer order) and will no doubt see the value plummet by £30k - another waste of money.

Surprised production has ceased, didnt think there was a new A4 for a couple of years yet? Although when the M3 Touring comes along it might struggle as that has 50hp more....

I'll make a call on whether I keep it 4 years in the next 12 to 18months, and if I do I will pay off the finance as it means I plan to keep it long term. In the meantime I am still buying into a deflated market so hoping that the return from keeping money invested is higher than the finance costs short term.

But yes, waste of money and at some stage I will decide I have had enough of losing money on cars and just get something sensible.... maybe when I grow up!

(Still love the car though - I love that it is sensible and docile when I need it to be and still ridiculously quick and drama free when in a hurry)
 

T-1000

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
New, you'd need to find a stock car as RS4 production has ceased.

£840 a month over 48 months -you'll pay £40,320, and then a final payment of £35,000 - Total £75,320. Cost of credit circa £11k. Most likely you won't keep it for the duration I'm sure.

Mind you I bought the current weapon for £48k, new for cash with a close to £9k discount and intend to make use of the factory 5 year warranty (cancelled customer order) and will no doubt see the value plummet by £30k - another waste of money.

£840 a month


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

isleaiw

Registered User
£840 a month


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Deposit adjusted, I dont actually shell out that much each month as I put in a sizeable deposit. But always best not to kids yourself and accept what it really costs!

I'm lucky, kids are grown up and I dont have a better half wanting me to spend a fortune on stuff for the house!
 

firecracker69

Registered User
Hey, thanks guys!
Only just got around to reading these.....

I agree, the sound of the RSQ3 is great, the engine noise is unique so not faulting that OR in fact anything about the car.
If I wanted to comment on any negatives it would be the turbo lag and missing the pops and crackles (especially on down shifts) that my 19’ RS5 had.
I always knew the RSQ3 would never be the speed of the RS5. However, RS5 got a bit boring very very quickly.

ISLEAIW is spot on and clearly remembers my previous posts.
As mentioned, just curious on prices.

I keep going back and forth.
Last night I was looking at the RS3 but at 45k it seems a lot for what is an old gen now with not much of the new funky features. To basically swap mine for one and lose all my equipment just doesn’t seem right - even though I still want one!
I then thought, what about the new S3 but without the black edition being available just yet it won’t make the grade (not to mention I’m not a huge fan).

As you know, I get bored after a couple of months so now looking for the next.
 

isleaiw

Registered User
Honestly, I think you need to work out what you want and buy a car and keep it, or buy a cheap reliable daily to do the grunt and buy and sell secondhand cars of interest so you lose less money.....

I'm reckoning that what you are burning now would put you in a 911 or Cayman GTS 4.0 if you could keep it for 3 to 4 years.

Or if you want sound and fun then its got to a Merc 63 or Alfa Quad...but to me both are fun when in the mood but cant do the mundane as well....

I'd steer well clear of the new S3 or old RS3 for now.
 

NWHighlander

Registered User
My philosophy, all cars are a waste of money, just some are more fun than others.

Mike
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
I'm with you on the turbo-lag sensation and have spent a while seeking to understand what it is the case when the previous generation of EA855 engine didn't have much in the way of lag and have concluded that Audi took the development of the engine even further. The technology used is remarkable and unlike most other regular road car power plants this one was conceived with an eye firmly fixed on racing now with a larger turbocharger and a host of other changes both to increase power and reduce weight at the same time. In these lockdown times the PDF at the end of this thread: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10127901-9999.pdf describes the engine in detail. One thing is for sure if anything tragic went wrong it would be a whole new engine.

From research I've discovered that although Audi quote the power output at 395 it's actually around 420bhp with decent fuel and 460-470bhp is obtainable with a fairly conservative remap and into 500bhp territory with a larger intercooler.

The absence of the crackles, pops and bangs that were so enjoyable in the previous 5 pot RS experiences are caused by the presence of Particulate Soot Filters in the front of the exhaust system as can be seen in this Audi image:

Particulate-Soot-Filters.jpg
 
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isleaiw

Registered User
My philosophy, all cars are a waste of money, just some are more fun than others.

Mike

All cars are pretty much a waste of money, but there are ways to restrict it, and buying new or nearly new from a main dealer and keeping for 6 months is a way to burn more than most! And whilst we all get a bit bored with what we have after a while I'd get more bored with filling the dealers coffers.... (says the main who is on his 3 rd car in 4 years....)
 

firecracker69

Registered User
Honestly, I think you need to work out what you want and buy a car and keep it, or buy a cheap reliable daily to do the grunt and buy and sell secondhand cars of interest so you lose less money.....

I'm reckoning that what you are burning now would put you in a 911 or Cayman GTS 4.0 if you could keep it for 3 to 4 years.

Or if you want sound and fun then its got to a Merc 63 or Alfa Quad...but to me both are fun when in the mood but cant do the mundane as well....

I'd steer well clear of the new S3 or old RS3 for now.

Well that’s the problem, there is no car out there I want to keep..... just not interested.
I go through approx 3 cars every 12 months, and why not, I can so I do. I don’t spend money on anything else so that’s my guilty pleasure.

Take your point on the S3 and RS3!
 

firecracker69

Registered User
My philosophy, all cars are a waste of money, just some are more fun than others.

Mike

Absolutely agree!
Im never going to make money so I just try and limit my loss, that’s all there is to it, nothing more, nothing less lol
 

firecracker69

Registered User
I'm with you on the turbo-lag sensation and have spent a while seeking to understand what it is the case when the previous generation of EA855 engine didn't have much in the way of lag and have concluded that Audi took the development of the engine even further. The technology used is remarkable and unlike most other regular road car power plants this one was conceived with an eye firmly fixed on racing now with a larger turbocharger and a host of other changes both to increase power and reduce weight at the same time. In these lockdown times the PDF at the end of this thread: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10127901-9999.pdf describes the engine in detail. One thing is for sure if anything tragic went wrong it would be a whole new engine.

From research I've discovered that although Audi quote the power output at 395 it's actually around 420bhp with decent fuel and 460-470bhp is obtainable with a fairly conservative remap and into 500bhp territory with a larger intercooler.

The absence of the crackles, pops and bangs that were so enjoyable in the previous 5 pot RS experiences are caused by the presence of Particulate Soot Filters in the front of the exhaust system as can be seen in this Audi image:

Thanks for that, interesting read!

Funnily enough, my S5 had the same lag the RSQ3 does although I know entirely different engines! When I moved to the RS5 the lag was pretty much gone.
I had hoped the RSQ3 would be the same, finely tuned and just as responsive being an RS model. It’s something you have to drive around if really needed, just wish it was better but either way not a deal breaker.

I know these engines are great for mods, tuning, but something personally I’ve never bothered with as don’t keep them long enough. I think I just enjoy driving and owning different cars, mainly Audi of course!

Out of interest, why has production stopped on the RS4?
Wonder if that’s why they are priced as they are currently? Seem to have gone up!
 
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RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, interesting read!

Funnily enough, my S5 had the same lag the RSQ3 does although I know entirely different engines! When I moved to the RS5 the lag was pretty much gone.
I had hoped the RSQ3 would be the same, finely tuned and just as responsive being an RS model. It’s something you have to drive around if really needed, just wish it was better but either way not a deal breaker.

I know these engines are great for mods, tuning, but something personally I’ve never bothered with as don’t keep them long enough. I think I just enjoy driving and owning different cars, mainly Audi of course!

Out of interest, why has production stopped on the RS4?
Wonder if that’s why they are priced as they are currently? Seem to have gone up!
I wasn’t aware they had stopped production of RS4. My 69 plate Daytona Immaculate Sport Edition 7k miles Comfort and sound Pan roof could be yours.
 

isleaiw

Registered User
Well that’s the problem, there is no car out there I want to keep..... just not interested.
I go through approx 3 cars every 12 months, and why not, I can so I do. I don’t spend money on anything else so that’s my guilty pleasure.

Take your point on the S3 and RS3!

Cant fault you, I am the same, but if you are getting through 3 every 12 months you ought to aim for something that loses less value and might be interesting to you for longer. Audi and BMWs are good cars but they are all a bit samey, my RS4 doesnt feel that different to the SQ5I had, my M5 wasnt that different to the 530d that the son in law had - well in everyday use. I wonder if you need something a bit more special? Last serial car changer that i know who changed his way did so by buying a secondhand Porsche, he just said it felt special.....

I keep saying I will try it but a Cayman GTS 4.0 isnt much good for the dog - or my ageing back!
 

cosmicblue

Registered User
RSQ8?

I like the look of them, except too large, and all are north of £100k.
 

firecracker69

Registered User
RSQ8?

I like the look of them, except too large, and all are north of £100k.

lol.
If I had that kind of money then I’d be going RS6.

Size isn’t an issue for me. We have a family car for the main, the car I drive is purely me for fun and when COVID changes I do travel round the Country for work..... so I’m always mindful of mileage but I don’t let that dictate the car I get, just factor it in.

@RGBARGEE - why the change? Also not sure why the RS4 has stopped production, it suggests a facelift maybe but honestly don’t know even though intrigued!
 

RGBARGEE

Well-Known Member
lol.
If I had that kind of money then I’d be going RS6.

Size isn’t an issue for me. We have a family car for the main, the car I drive is purely me for fun and when COVID changes I do travel round the Country for work..... so I’m always mindful of mileage but I don’t let that dictate the car I get, just factor it in.

@RGBARGEE - why the change? Also not sure why the RS4 has stopped production, it suggests a facelift maybe but honestly don’t know even though intrigued!
New car 1 March and too much capital tied up in cars. May get an older B9 A4 Avant or A6 for £15-25k
 
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