RS4 power

[DuncS3]

So the verdict is it's great but you are not getting one!.My thoughts completely,i would just miss the involement of the six speed!.

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"Designed to move you,both physically and emotionally,the Z8 is pure BMW.Unleashed".

 

[A4Steve]

Just goes to prove that you shouldn’t buy a Demo car that IanT have driven

 

Well considering Dorian has never driven one, he isnt qualified to say anything

My mate came over yesterday in his manual, and I took it for a drive. He has had his longer than me, but only has 2000 miles on the clock, so nowhere near run in, whereas mine is almost at 7000. I definately agree that the more miles you have, the faster the car is, while his car felt fast, mine felt a lot more nimble and responsive.

It was nice to feel that behind the wheel of a manual the car did actually free pretty much the same (I noticed it has red lights for the extended redline rather than red and orange like on the SMG, I guess for the change up sequence). It was great fun being able to use manual again, and you do feel like you have that little bit more control, because you do.

SMG is great for every day driving, and fun fast driving down lanes, you are able to change gears effortlessly and give yourself a big grin each time. The BARK that has been mentioned is wonderful as well, but you can get that on a manual if you want to.

If I were a trackday driver, then I do not think I would get SMG, so I agree with Ian's comments.. for traffic SMG is a godsend, having the best of both worlds from an auto box.

It does take time to get used to driving the SMG, you have to work out how best to drive it to your driving style, and everyones is different. The seat position is also very important.

The change up lights I think are a nice idea, but in practise are pretty pointless, you spend more time watching the lights than you do the road, and if your driving it hard, it should be pretty obvious when you should best change up anyway... so its a gimick I think.

 

[Little_Si]

I am going to be tracking my car this year and the single most exciting part apart from the ridiculous tail slides I am going to be performing will be SMG.

I am sure my love of SMG stems from motorbikes where gear changes are just not an important part of the experience. I feel cars should be just the same and SMG provides this.

just my 2p

 

[theodore_p]

Not too sure I agree with the motorbike comment but I think I know what you're getting at.

I disagree with the SMG and trackdays. SMG works best when being driven VERY hard, and pretty much trackdays are the places where cars are driven that way.

Only reason I doubt I'll track mine is because I have a dedicated track car but more importantly I would *****myself spinning a £55k toy!

 

[DuncS3]

My experince is based on the F1 modena matt,you ****** monkey chops.Basically the same principle so there nanananaaaa.

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"Designed to move you,both physically and emotionally,the Z8 is pure BMW.Unleashed".

[This message has been edited by the silver surfer (edited 01 February 2002).]

 

[theodore_p]

Also,

I doubt very much the M3 brakes are up to trackwork, if (albeit very hard) road work can generate fade then on a track you'd be screwed after 3 laps (obviously depending on the circuit).

Most people who do regular track work (Ian I'm sure you'll agree here) go straight out and upgrade the brakes, it really is the single most important factor. (that and tyres of course).

 

[theodore_p]

Unfair Dorian, everyone who's tried both say the two systems are totally different and the BMW is significantly better.

 

I'm totally opposite to some on here

SMG is not a great moderate driving tool. It is there for hard driving. Yes its ok for crawling around, and Auto is only good for using the mobile.

Its place is the track where IMHO its a much better system than a manual car. There is no way I could change gears as quick in a manual as in the SMG. It would be interesting to see what times people would set on a track in both Manual and SMG cars. Ok professional drivers might be similar, but us mere mortals would be quicker in the SMG car IMHO.

If manual was a better system for track driving, why do all the rally cars, F1 cars etc use sequential ?

I still wish I gone for a Manual M3, but since my car broke down, the replacement part seems to have make the box smoother. Think that might be in my head rather than a fact, but I am enjoying the SMG box more.

Jonathan

 

[Wolfsburger]

Re: up-change/rev-limit lights

On the manual the lights are all orange except for the last one (at 7500/8000rpm)

On the SMG they are definitely a different colour (more yellow than orange) apart from the first and last lights which are red (I think ... correct me if I'm wrong).

Re: Brakes

Yes, out of the box they are completely and utterly crap. BMW should be ashamed of building such a high-tech car and putting such low-tech calipers on them (single-pot sliding calipers!)

It doesn't cost much (£250'ish) to get them up to a reasonable level:

- braided brake hoses (£50)
- decent brake fluid (£30)
- Pagid RS4-2 pads up front (£150)

To get a completely fade-free system is around £1700 for a front Mov'it kit. I'll be getting this later in the year hopefully.

Ian.

 

[Wolfsburger]

Chins,

"If manual was a better system for track driving, why do all the rally cars, F1 cars etc use sequential ?"

It's got nothing to do with race cars really.

If you want to learn how to drive a car fast on the track, using a manual gearbox properly is one of the big learning curves and is an important aspect of the whole experience.

If you learn how to drive fast on the track in a car that does the mechanics of the shifting for you, you've only learnt 75% of what you can possibly learn. Step into a true manual car and then try and drive fast on a track and you're scuppered.

If you want to become a great track driver, learn in a manual first then buy an SMG, not vice-versa.

If you just want to have fun on a track, SMG is probably fine but still nowhere near as rewarding (from a learning point of view) IMHO.

Ian.

 

[DuncS3]

Three cheers for IanT(TECHNICAL DIRECTOR).

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"Designed to move you,both physically and emotionally,the Z8 is pure BMW.Unleashed".

 

[s4dreamer]

IanT
SO how does one with manual gear box (which I do perfer) make the car blip like the SMG
The noise of the blip is nearly worth buying the SMG

Thanks

 

[Little_Si]

If you want to learn a race circuit ride a bike around

Only joking.

SMG v Manual at track ? Gear change points are the same, as is braking etc and the only difference is in one you need to heel and toe (although this can be argued against) and the other is there is no difference.

Gearchanging on a track or anywhere else is just plain boring.

Track driving is only fun because it allows you to explore the limits of the handling of the car and improve your skill levels with regard to balance/adjustability etc. Gearchanging plays no part in this once you can heel and toe well.

PS I am going to be racing in the Renault Clio Cup this year (if the sponsor/finance comes through) in a manual, as I have no choice as to the transmission. If I did I would be using a clutchless system

2p

 

[Little_Si]

Originally posted by Peritas:
IanT
SO how does one with manual gear box (which I do perfer) make the car blip like the SMG
The noise of the blip is nearly worth buying the SMG

Thanks

Learn to heel and toe

 

[s4dreamer]

Cheers

How ?
Any suggestions tips etc

Thanks

 

[DuncS3]

Jjr1 do not get into a technical discussion with IanT,he'll blow you away.

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"Designed to move you,both physically and emotionally,the Z8 is pure BMW.Unleashed".

 

[Little_Si]

Originally posted by the silver surfer:
Jjr1 do not get into a technical discussion with IanT,he'll blow you away.

Fair enough I will just have to make sure I make next weeks airfield day so I can blow him away on track

 

Ian

I'm interested to understand why you feel this way ?. Not a critisism, purely interest.

I have done a small amount of track driving, including a day at Bedford in the M3.

Jonathan

 

[Wolfsburger]

Jonathan,

"Fair enough I will just have to make sure I make next weeks airfield day so I can blow him away on track "

From what I've read in your posts in the past, you almost definitely would!

Re: Heel+toe ... yes, I can do that but I rarely bother on the track to be quite honest. That doesn't mean I don't do it while driving around town just to stay in practice

I assume it would give one an edge in a competition (you can say better than me on that) but I've never really thought about competing.

Ian.

 

[Wolfsburger]

Originally posted by Chins:
Ian

I'm interested to understand why you feel this way ?. Not a critisism, purely interest.

I have done a small amount of track driving, including a day at Bedford in the M3.

Jonathan

Chins,

I wasn't really disagreeing with you. You're absolutely right to say that race cars tend to have sequential boxes because they shift inherently faster, although don't confuse a true sequential 'box with SMG ... they're fundamentally different.

I only gave you my own personal reasons why I wouldn't choose SMG for the track. It's only my opinion and, having said that, it's probably in the minority of opinions

Ian.

 

[theodore_p]

To sum up (for me anyway).

Chins and I agree albeit for different reasons.

Ian and I agree on the brakes front and that its better to learn in a manual then use SMG.

jj and I agree that bikes on track are more fun(but consequently more painfull when you lunch it at Donnington)

and Dorian and I continue to disagree on everything, although I now can't remember.

 

Nice summary Thorney.

Good write up Ian T. I also agree with Chins that it would make for a great track 'box but I also think it will fine for me on the roads. I know that's not what Jonathan feels but each to their own

I also can't ***** to heel and toe on the track. If I was racing though then that is a different matter

For me the 30 mins I had in the SMG car confirmed that it is a gearbox for all occasions. I can't wait to try one on the track

I look forward to trying more SMG's before my next car comes..

I've only taken my manual car on the track once so far and I was blown away at chuckable it was, and fast of course!

 

[A4Steve]

I've got 90bhp in my Golf... goes OK...

What the hell is 380bhp like in the RS4.. or even 450 in the RS6????
Must be hang on tight and close the sphincter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Oh well.. dream on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[DavidR]

Its quite, erm, rapid. Not exactly white knuckle stuff though due to tall gearing and civilised audi road manners /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[s4dreamer]

I've had a short drive in a tuned 460bhp RS4, and it was bl**dy marvellous.

Around town, it is very refined and easy to drive - pretty much like my normal A4. Get it out of town and it's a rocket ship. My favourite quote from the owner of said car is:

"Don't worry about grip -you'll give up before it does!"

He was absolutely spot on too!!