RS3.....worth the premium over the S3?

Status
Not open for further replies.
don't you eat humble pies mr 8?

Have you been drinking?

Not sure what humble pie there is to eat, I said the pricing was very attractive, but actually, the car doesn't meet my needs/expectations, so, no, I can't live with all the flaws and deficiencies of the RS3, no matter how attractive the price.


Because you'd have to go back & delete all your Golf R posts??? :haha:

Calm down. See above :D


PS: I notice all you nice RS3 boys have come over mob handed again tonight to keep me company, and specifically talk about me again, very nice. :)
 
Nobody mentions the woeful gearbox on the RS3. (That comment alone should double the size on this thread)

The floor is all yours !
(I suspect you mean adapting your driving to drive to the gearbox characteristics, though)
(Although sometimes it wouldn't give me the immediate downshifts when I wanted them)
 
Top gear had a group rest of all the latest hot hatches, the rs3 was the fastest round the track. About 3 seconds quicker than the golf if I remember. Therefore I wouldn't go by one source.

In regards to people talking about you, I'm sorry to say it mate, but you only bring it upon yourself. You have your opinion, which we are already aware of. However I think I speak for a lot of people when I say we are sick of hearing it
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snake Pliskin and Tony1982
The floor is all yours !
(I suspect you mean adapting your driving to drive to the gearbox characteristics, though)

Haha.........Is that you defending the RS3 there??

Dude seriously, I'm struggling with it, a gentle dab of throttle throws the car into 2nd giving me whiplash and the revs scream up to 4-5K for a simple pass at 30mph

Manual changes down are quite clunky too and I have actually had it miss a gear. By that I mean I accelerated and all the car did was rev?!
 
  • Like
Reactions: veeeight
Top gear had a group rest of all the latest hot hatches, the rs3 was the fastest round the track. About 3 seconds quicker than the golf if I remember. Therefore I wouldn't go by one source.


Yes, has been demonstrated time and time again by the magazines, eg evo and Top Gear etc.

Take it to a power circuit with lots of straights eg: Knockhill, and the RS3 shines with the 60+ bhp advantage
Take it to a handing circuit with lots of quick direction changes eg: Llandau, and the Golf R shines despite its power deficit


In regards to people talking about you, I'm sorry to say it mate, but you only bring it upon yourself. You have your opinion, which we are already aware of. However I think I speak for a lot of people when I say we are sick of hearing it


And there are a lot of people who do appreciate my non-sugarcoating of any car, so, if you're sick of hearing from me, use the ignore/block function, or gloss over my posts :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Blackwhite
Haha.........Is that you defending the RS3 there??

Dude seriously, I'm struggling with it, a gentle dab of throttle throws the car into 2nd giving me whiplash and the revs scream up to 4-5K for a simple pass at 30mph

Manual changes down are quite clunky too and I have actually had it miss a gear. By that I mean I accelerated and all the car did was rev?!


Shhhhh. You'll be castigated by the others for daring to criticise the RS3 ;)

I've had the revs with no forward motion thing once (with my 6-sp wet clutch box), I've had kick down into too low a gear, only for it to immediately lurch and change up again, I've had quite a few gearbox overheat messages, and I've had no reverse gear until I switched the car off, and back on again. I've had the interminable and variable delay going between D & R repeatedly when manoeuvring in tight spots, and each time the lurch getting stronger.

If your box is frequently clunky on upshifts, then I'd suggest a adaptation/basic settings with VCDS for it to reset.

All "normal" behaviour, apparently, according to Audi ;)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Pulp84 and Schuey
Shhhhh. You'll be castigated by the others for daring to criticise the RS3 ;)

So i'd better not say that the RS3 is a good car but its not great and has it's flaws (That's me blocked from the RS3 forum :tonguewink:)

had the revs with no forward motion thing once (with my 6-sp wet clutch box), I've had kick down into too low a gear, only for it to immediately lurch and change up again, I've had quite a few gearbox overheat messages, and I've had no reverse gear until I switched the car off, and back on again.

I describe it as exactly how my mother drives! No mechanical sympathy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pulp84 and veeeight
Yes, has been demonstrated time and time again by the magazines, eg evo and Top Gear etc.

Take it to a power circuit with lots of straights eg: Knockhill, and the RS3 shines with the 60+ bhp advantage
Take it to a handing circuit with lots of quick direction changes eg: Llandau, and the Golf R shines despite its power deficit

And there are a lot of people who do appreciate my non-sugarcoating of any car, so, if you're sick of hearing from me, use the ignore/block function, or gloss over my posts :)

I've always enjoyed different views, especially when there is truth in them, if there are only 'everything is perfect' views on this forum, it would feel like I'm back at work...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pulp84, veeeight and Blackwhite
^ @Schuey I almost daren't say this out loud.

Audi realised that they were missing out on a huge chunk of the market, with the A45, which has sold like hot cakes around the world. So they were a little more than hasty in bringing the RS3 to market quick (and early going by previous RS timings). There is some evidence of this, the initial cars had recalls quite quickly, there were production ramping up problems, and even today, there are still teething issues with the supply chain.

And here's whats relevant to the engine/gearbox. The development time was shortened (compared to other RS cars), the engine is basically the same engine as was in the 8P, with the power boosted. I suspect (and I have no way of proving this) from experience - that not enough development and testing time was given to the engine ECU and gearbox TCU characteristics, which would go some way to explaining the hard shifts, kick down behaviour, and throttle calibration with the 2 units. For sure the matching could be better, I would suspect there would be some software upgrades down the line for the early cars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAYTONA 500 and Schuey
^ @Schuey I almost daren't say this out loud.

Audi realised that they were missing out on a huge chunk of the market, with the A45, which has sold like hot cakes around the world. So they were a little more than hasty in bringing the RS3 to market quick (and early going by previous RS timings). There is some evidence of this, the initial cars had recalls quite quickly, there were production ramping up problems, and even today, there are still teething issues with the supply chain.

And here's whats relevant to the engine/gearbox. The development time was shortened (compared to other RS cars), the engine is basically the same engine as was in the 8P, with the power boosted. I suspect (and I have no way of proving this) from experience - that not enough development and testing time was given to the engine ECU and gearbox TCU characteristics, which would go some way to explaining the hard shifts, kick down behaviour, and throttle calibration with the 2 units. For sure the matching could be better, I would suspect there would be some software upgrades down the line for the early cars.

I agree, there is something not quite right with the gearbox set up, what you explain there is exactly how I feel my car reacts, you can live with it but should you really have to on such a car? Don't get me wrong I still really like the RS3 and I don't regret changing from the S3 but I think next time I shall put a lot more effort, research and thought into what car I change to. At present I have the new Tiguan in mind for 2016 but I really want to see it carry the 240ps diesel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: veeeight
^ @Schuey I almost daren't say this out loud.

Audi realised that they were missing out on a huge chunk of the market, with the A45, which has sold like hot cakes around the world. So they were a little more than hasty in bringing the RS3 to market quick (and early going by previous RS timings). There is some evidence of this, the initial cars had recalls quite quickly, there were production ramping up problems, and even today, there are still teething issues with the supply chain.

And here's whats relevant to the engine/gearbox. The development time was shortened (compared to other RS cars), the engine is basically the same engine as was in the 8P, with the power boosted. I suspect (and I have no way of proving this) from experience - that not enough development and testing time was given to the engine ECU and gearbox TCU characteristics, which would go some way to explaining the hard shifts, kick down behaviour, and throttle calibration with the 2 units. For sure the matching could be better, I would suspect there would be some software upgrades down the line for the early cars.

This may come as a shock but for once i agree 100% with you Veeeight ,yes I've had a drink but only a little slug of JD in my Hot Chocolate :friends:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Schuey, veeeight and Simon L
This may come as a shock but for once i agree 100% with you Veeeight ,yes I've had a drink but only a little slug of JD in my Hot Chocolate :friends:

......now that's lovely right there eh? Makes you feel all warm inside.....................or is that the JD again?!! ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAYTONA 500
This may come as a shock but for once i agree 100% with you Veeeight ,yes I've had a drink but only a little slug of JD in my Hot Chocolate :friends:

......now that's lovely right there eh? Makes you feel all warm inside.....................or is that the JD again?!! ;)

Definatley not the JD as I hardly put any in the Chocolate:sadlike: Veeeight is absolutely right what he said on this occasion but but my answer to the original question is still YES.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RGBARGEE
Take it to a power circuit with lots of straights eg: Knockhill, and the RS3 shines with the 60+ bhp advantage
Take it to a handing circuit with lots of quick direction changes eg: Llandau, and the Golf R shines despite its power deficit

Why do you even care about 'circuit' evaluation when these are road cars we purchase from dealerships. If you want to discuss 'circuit cars' then we'll need to get a bit more Radical, or Caterham, or Rocket, even... And/or have you even done this yourself or just reporting on the findings of others? Back to back and road by road my preference remains the same as 4-years ago and believe me if anything preferable comes along I'll be after it but it'll not be 'cos it's faster round a circuit but rather than its preferred abilities BETWEEN home and the circuit and the circuit and home. :racer:

Last year me and mine did a VERY WET Audi Experience day at Silverstone with: 1) AudiR8 V10 Plus, 2) Audi RS4, 3) Audi TTRS Plus. The R8 was amazing though standing start acceleration had the back end vibrating like a MK1 Sprite; the RS4 understeered so bad it was unbelievable, and the TTRS was used for all of the agility/slalom tests and was utterly superb.

So 3-different cars each with their own characteristics and none of which suited my needs more than the machine I have now. As others have said I like the A3 package, I'm a small car person. As a contributor here well knows I prefer small cars and not sharabangs....

All down to needs, pocket, and preference.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: monopole, DAYTONA 500, Snake Pliskin and 1 other person
Great post 45bvtc. :iagree:

Totally agree with you there.

The talk of these cars on track sometimes baffles me too - they are road cars as you rightly point out ... for using day to day - super hot hatches which are practical and you need to do shopping in week to week - or safely ferry your family around in - or haul things about occasionally and continue to do so in winter !

Go to a track in my car .... err nope, that's not on my list of requirements either funnily enough :)

(even though I have experienced one on track and it impressed the hell out of me)

But a car that can do all the above plus ...

Have supercar performance
Make a terrific sound
have a quality interior
Put a smile on my face
Give me pride of ownership etc

Yeah they are things which tick my boxes :greyrs4::sunglasses:
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAYTONA 500 and 45bvtc
Why do you even care about 'circuit' evaluation when these are road cars we purchase from dealerships.


Because a previous poster brought it up, questioning why the RS3 performed so differently on different circuits.

A circuit is a way of benchmarking different cars, nothing more, nothing less. It plays a part in highlighting flaws quicker/better on road cars, which is why testers use them.



No need to be so defensive ;)
(and bang on cue, you guys are starting to trot out the standard repeated excuses again.....)
 
Last edited:
Here's that list again, just in case you need to refer to it :p


1. Irrelevant, I never take my car on the track
2. What does that prove, 1 lap of a track
3. It's a biased press review
4. It's just jealousy on the part of S3 owners
5. Can't afford one - so they bash it
6. It's just sour grapes on the part of S3 owners
7. Green eyed monster / envy
etc.




Again: if you like the car, buy it.
Don't have to justify to anyone else why it meets your needs.
 
Think no8 should be:

I'm buying an A45, probably one of the nastiest 'hot hatches' and won't admit the RS3 is better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: G-S3 and Snake Pliskin
Every single one of those 'excuses' has been used, at various times, in various threads, when defending the RS3.

Quite revealing, really. :D
 
Not a fan of JC (either of them) but the Sunday Times article seems fair. Includes a comment about stiff ride and slow witted gearbox in an A45!!

Audi RS 3 Sportback £39,950

WHAT IS the perfect car? Parents of young children pretend it’s the latest people carrier with power-sliding doors – while secretly daydreaming about a Porsche Boxster, the wind in their hair and not an Isofix child seat in sight. Suburban sorts with brilliant white teeth and spray tans love an enormous SUV for the commanding driving position and road presence. And the older man can’t resist looking slightly ridiculous in something loud and fast.


Where does that leave car enthusiasts? A stripped-back and raw two-seater such as a Caterham Seven might be exciting but would quickly become tiresome as it messed up your trousers when you climbed in, and left a trail of of bread rolls and vegetables after the weekly shop in its bumpy wake. The ideal would be something fast yet subtle, with enough space for friends or family yet sufficiently compact to weave its way around Britain’s crowded roads. Something a bit like the new Audi RS 3 Sportback.

It’s handsome but not brash, practical but not overblown, beautifully built and lovingly detailed with four-wheel drive for all-weather security – and, oh yes, it’s a bit of a rocketship, too.

The RS cars are Audi's answer to BMW’s M models and Mercedes’ AMG hot rods. This one is the smallest and most affordable in the RS family, although “affordable” is, as always, a relative term. Some drivers will think a hatchback the size of a Volkswagen Golf that costs almost £40,000 should come with a free a mug saying, “I’m a mug”.


But this is no ordinary hatchback. Press the Start button and it instantly becomes clear that there is something rather serious under bonnet. It’s a 2.5-litre, five-cylinder engine – which rally fans will know harks back to the original Audi quattro – that settles to a deep, smoothly potent idle.

The launch venue – the Vallelunga racing circuit near Rome – suggests Audi is feeling confident about its latest RS. We put it through its paces on the track and on the narrow, ragged roads that spread over the hills nearby, plus plenty of autostrada on the way to the airport.

The confidence comes from mouth-watering statistics. The engine, central to the car’s character, produces 367bhp, and 343 lb ft from just 1625rpm. Combined with the 7-speed S tronic dual-clutch transmission (no manual gearbox is available) and the latest Haldex Generation V four-wheel-drive system, it manages a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it 0-62mph time of 4.3 seconds. The top speed is electronically limited to 155mph but Audi offers the option of increasing that to 174mph.

Its four-wheel-drive system reacts more quickly than that of the previous RS 3, and the wet multi-plate clutch is now housed in the rear axle to improve weight distribution. It can send up to 100% of power to the front or rear axle if necessary.


It also has the latest fad – torque vectoring. This is essentially a system that uses wheel-speed sensors to slow the inside wheel during cornering to improve the car’s agility.

Drivers who have money to burn can order the optional adjustable magnetic dampers or the long-lasting and light carbon-ceramic brake package. But once you start adding on such tempting extras, the RS 3 Sportback becomes very expensive very quickly.

None of this matters much if the RS 3 isn’t fun to drive. Initial impressions are very favourable. Our test car doesn’t have the fancy adjustable dampers but the ride is much slicker than that of its rather clumsy predecessor. Only at very low speeds through congested towns does it feel overly harsh, thumping over potholes and making speed humps pretty uncomfortable. If you do most of your driving in a big city at below 30mph, it might be a bit wearing.

Stretching its legs, the engine sounds fabulous, and with the optional sports exhaust it is accompanied by pops and crackles. Throttle response is fast, and despite the big, flat mass of torque, the delivery feels measured and you’re rewarded for hanging on to each gear by a nice rush as the needle approaches the red line.


Yet despite boasting 367bhp and coming in 55kg lighter than the previous RS 3, it doesn’t feel like a big step up from its little brother, the S3, which has 300bhp and is nearly £8,500 cheaper.

Perhaps part of that impression is generated by the car's composure. Where the previous RS 3 felt clumsy and inert, the new model has more feedback through the clean, well-weighted steering and that vital sense of fun.

On the track it’s a bit less impressive unless you disable all the stability aids and throw it around like a rally car. Do so and it’ll adopt crazy, tyre-smoking angles.

It’s supremely capable but lacks the sparkle of the best Audi RS machines. Despite the fabulously indulgent engine, the new RS 3 feels as though it needs to throw off its suit jacket, rip off its tie and join the party. It’s good, but the search for the perfect car continues.







Mercedes A45 AMG, £38,195

For Has all the AMG traits: presence, thunderous noise and performance

Against Stiff ride; slow-witted gearbox


BMW M135i, £32,685 (5-door)

For Glorious six-cylinder engine; bargain price

Against Chassis easily upset on bumpy surfaces
 
  • Like
Reactions: 45bvtc and Snake Pliskin
Having now had an RS3 since Friday, I can say that for me, the answer to the title of this thread is YES - for me it is a clear step up on the S3, on all fronts (dare I say it, even steering feedback).
Just my opinions on the roads I drive on and the way I drive and what I want from a car.
Good luck to everyone finding what THEY want but please don't try to force opinions on others.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 45bvtc and RGBARGEE
Here's that list again, just in case you need to refer to it :p

6. It's just sour grapes on the part of S3 owners
7. Green eyed monster / envy
etc.

Again: if you like the car, buy it.
Don't have to justify to anyone else why it meets your needs.

Until you come across a forum and read a thread titled as this one is :tearsofjoy:
 
  • Like
Reactions: veeeight
Not a fan of JC (either of them) but the Sunday Times article seems fair. Includes a comment about stiff ride and slow witted gearbox in an A45!!


Indeed - the old pre FL A45 did suffer from a slow gearbox, happily, Chris Harris can find no such problem with the new FL A45 gearbox ;)
and - doesn't the stiff ride go against you calling the A45 ride "floppy"? :)

That's one thing you can never say about the A45, especially when comparing it with the relatively wobbly suspension of the RS3!

(Again, the criticisms of the stiff ride in the A45 has been addressed in the FL - way to go, eh Mercedes :) )
 
The A45 is very brash looking too externally & the interior feels very claustrophobic & cheap. I'm also not keen on weird noise the Merc exhaust emits.

FOR ME ..... RS3 tackles all these issues .... No excuses :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 45bvtc
Mag ride does seem to make a big difference to the RS3 not too sure about the standard setup when I drove a demo car, felt compromised like the S3.
 
^ Yes it does improve it over non-mag ride, however, it still does bounce and float when pushed.

It is better, but not great for an RS car.
 
This is going to run like the Harry Potter series ....

Try it, like it, buy it !
 
  • Like
Reactions: Simon L, veeeight, Jassyo06 and 1 other person
Because a previous poster brought it up, questioning why the RS3 performed so differently on different circuits.

A circuit is a way of benchmarking different cars, nothing more, nothing less. It plays a part in highlighting flaws quicker/better on road cars, which is why testers use them.

No need to be so defensive ;)
(and bang on cue, you guys are starting to trot out the standard repeated excuses again.....)

Just being 'honest' here veeeight and as we both now know neither of us are "a very pretty girl" neither do I have a "veeeight' just a 'five', 'four' and a 'three'... :racer:
 
  • Like
Reactions: DAYTONA 500, RGBARGEE, veeeight and 1 other person
For my further 2p... The feel of the S3 and RS3 will be very different depending on how you set it up. I usually go for dynamic everything apart from the steering which I prefer in comfort. Each to their own but it does make a difference to how the cars feel. Sadly when these so called experts profess about 'stuff' they rarely tell us the full story .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snake Pliskin and 45bvtc
Don't think the problems we are discussing is about drive select.

Drive select on the steering only adds artificial friction (and therefore inertia) to the EPAS, it cannot add anymore feel to an already anesthetised system.

We are talking geometry, suspension, damping, grip, traction (which is great on a smooth road, but compromised by the suspension on anything other than a smooth road) attributes, all of which aren't great on the RS3, compared with the class competitors. And the chocolate brakes.

At the end of the day, it's a Haldex car, with all the limitations that brings, but without any of the driveline enhancements that some competitors offer.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads