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RS3 v Tesla AWD Milk Float

Snake Pliskin Jun 1, 2019

  1. DW81

    DW81 Registered User

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    I reckon m4 with the competition pack
     
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  3. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    Not 4WD! Oh, and it’s not an Audi...
     
  4. DW81

    DW81 Registered User

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    I’m saying Porsche then. You loved your bosses 997 but what model you have chosen lord above knows
     
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  5. X3man

    X3man Well known member

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    Z4 M40i ?
     
  6. A4B9

    A4B9 Registered User

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    Z4 M40i is RWD
     
  7. X3man

    X3man Well known member

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    Fair enough was thinking of the M340i which is, and so will new Z4
     
  8. evil_scooby

    evil_scooby Registered User

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    Have you thought about the model 3 performance?
    Half the price and I'm wondering if nearly as much fun

    Salary sacrifice has got me interested with its savings vs my rs3.

    Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
     
  9. zaka7

    zaka7 Registered User

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    I still personally feel electric will NOT be the way forward, for me it always has been Hydrogen power, you still have the noise, it's a fuel source that is cheap to make, never runs out and only emissions are heat and water!

    The only thing stopping it currently is there is not much money to be made hence not having the same investment.

    The money will stop flowing with electric car investment once the Government have tied enough people into them, just like they did with the old tax brackets which they then raised to the standard £120 for most cars.

    The used car market for electric cars is pointless because of the limits to recharging, they do not age well at all and who is going to pay for all this infrastructure required for electric cars service stations currently have 1-2% of spaces with a charge point, I just can't see it personally when something like Hydrogen is so much cheaper and easier to produce and has far more benefits.

    Once the government work out a way to tax us for a gas we can all make at home, that'll be the way it goes, hope is not lose of the engine noise we all love :D
     
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  10. Callump01

    Callump01 Registered User

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    I am very tempted by it due to the fact that it's significantly cheaper, but I'm not a huge fan of the exterior and definitely not a fan at all of the minimalist interior. Everything rather rightfully feels cheaper and not a 60k interior. Monthly payments for the M3P would be ~£480 for me though, instead of ~£1400 for the P100D with a £10,000 deposit. Quite a big difference there!

    I agree with that. Hydrogen is definitely the way forward longer term, but electric points are popping up faster and faster though... BP have just announced that a ton of their service stations will be getting rapid chargers at 150 KW or so (which is around 600ish miles of charge per hour)

    Tesco have also announced that all of their stores are getting free charging with some getting 22 KWH chargers like the local metro near me.

    Tesla are also bringing out V3 superchargers for use with their cars which are the fastest in the business at 250 KW. They will give you 600ish miles of range in around 15 minutes. Adoption is catching on very quickly and the chargers are only getting quicker!
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
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  11. zaka7

    zaka7 Registered User

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    100% agree pal, but the figures being tossed around are 125m cars to be electric by 2030 (5m now) Whilst people are definitely putting stations in they aren't putting enough for that. It'll all die down, and for the better, electric cars aren't sustainable nor as 'friendly' as they're marketed. and with Hydrogen we keep the noise and are more environmentally friendly.
     
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  13. DrEskimo

    DrEskimo Registered User

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    Apologies, but there are a lot of technical inaccuracies in your post.

    Hydrogen does not make a noise. Hydrogen is a fuel source, not a form of propulsion. It is used to store energy, which then powers an electric motor in exactly the same way as a lithium ion battery powers an electric motor in an EV.

    Pure hydrogen is also not cheap to make. It is extremely energy intensive to separate pure hydrogen from water, and there is also large costs involved in transporting it and storing it at re-fuelling stations. Hydrogen is currently more expensive than petrol.

    The problem with hydrogen is that it is a hugely inefficient means of creating energy to propel a car:

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, before you have even got to the car, half of the energy is lost, and further energy losses are apparent as the car looks to convert that energy into propulsion to drive the car.

    When you think about it on the most basic terms it also doesn't make a huge amount of sense. Why spend tonnes of energy to create a fuel that is then used to power an electric motor, when you can just directly store that energy in a battery and use it to power the electric motor? The advantages are quicker re-fuel times and longer range, but as already mentioned above, rapid charging and higher capacity batteries are already negating those disadvantages in EVs.

    Where I do see hydrogen is in long-distance haulage and things like ships. Hydrogen can be an effective means of energy storage, so there are already plans to use excess energy supply of renewable energy (think excess wind energy at night) to create hydrogen, which can then be stored and used later.
    I also hope the technology does improve and does trickle down to the passenger car market, as it would be great alternative for the motorway reps doing stupid miles who currently use diesels. Right now though, it is not a viable proposition at all, and I suspect EV technology will progress at such a pace that it will become the Betamax....

    The used market for EV's is also not 'pointless'. It is one of the most buoyant car markets, where most EV owners have seen large appreciation of their cars over the last 12months. The only EV that does suffer from degradation is the first generation Leaf, and that was down to the fact that Nissan decided to opt against battery cooling. Even now they only have passive cooling, hence why there was the 'rapid gate' scandal, but every other EV on the market has active battery cooling and as such, battery degradation is minimal.

    My own second hand EV is coming up to 3yrs old and the battery health is still 99%.

    You are right though. The low costs won't last forever, and neither will the buoyant second hand market. So my advice is get in there quick while the going is good!

    EV's are just as sustainable as Hydrogen, and once again, hydrogen cars do not make a noise....
     
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  14. DrEskimo

    DrEskimo Registered User

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    @Callump01 great write up thanks! It's quite a surreal experience isn't it! Whilst I have nothing nearly as nice or fast as a P100D (just a wee Renault Zoe!), I do drive my FiL's Model S 85 a bit and do love the all round experience of the Model S. My only real gripe is the size...it's a hell of a big car, and that's one of the main reasons I am considering a Model 3 if I do decide to buy a 'proper' car again (I barely do 100miles a week, so the Zoe was just an experiment to see what EV ownership is like!).

    Best of luck with whatever you decide to go with. Likewise, If you have any specific questions about running an EV just give me a shout :)
     
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  15. Callump01

    Callump01 Registered User

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    Thanks mate! My RS3 goes on Tues/Wed next week, I managed to snag £38,250 which isn't a bad price given the 20,500 miles. Excited to buy my first EV but very sad the RS is going.
     
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  16. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    Well done @DW81

    Finally picked her up today...
     

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  17. jebusRS

    jebusRS Registered User

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    very nice doc
     
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  18. X3man

    X3man Well known member

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    Wow, that THAT is a car
     
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  19. DW81

    DW81 Registered User

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    Lovely mate. Just had an inkling as like I said you spoke very highly of your bosses.

    what’s it like compared to your stage 1 TTRS?
     
  20. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    I’d say it would just have the legs on a stock TTRS. But my stage 1, it was a monster and would have the legs on the 911.

    It doesn’t quite sound as good as the 5 cylinder engine but I must say it’s a good sound and very unique!

    Interior is very nice but not as modern feeling. But exterior looks...well, the 911 just looks a million dollars in the flesh!
     
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  21. Matt2010

    Matt2010 Registered User

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    I'm thinking of the Model 3 Performance as my next car through my company now the BIK changes are coming next year. Been watching a few vids recently and the tech does seem pretty amazing and seems to leave the big, well established brands trailing by some distance.
    What does put me off is the lack of local dealerships if anything were to go wrong tho. Closest one to me is almost 90 mins away.
     
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  22. royalsteve68

    royalsteve68 Registered User

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    No, the leaf had massive depreciation as yo7 had to lease the battery. Who’s gonna do that as a 2nd plus owner
     
  23. simonali

    simonali Guest

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    Anyone read the evo review of the Model 3. They stated it was faster than a TT-RS and handled better, too. I quote:

     
  24. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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    You could not pay me enough money to take one.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
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  25. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    Koi
    I just cannot believe a Tesla Model 3 handles better than a TTRS. I’m obviously biased having owned the TT, but a car weighed down with 100’s of kg of batteries vs the TT...
    :wtf:
     
  26. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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    Look when CH drove a TM3 on a slalom course vs a C63 etc. It was mental quick (full torque from zero blah blah blah) but "handled like a boat" his words.

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
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  27. Slowracer

    Slowracer Registered User

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    The batteries / weight being down low does help to give it a lower centre of gravity. It’s still a tank in a corner but it makes up for slow entry with tons of torque to pull it out of corners quickly. So it does the job but the experience is not rewarding.
     
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  28. simonali

    simonali Guest

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    evo reckon it'd oversteer given the right amount of throttle and said they could do drifting in it. S'all on the website, go take a look!
     
  29. Callump01

    Callump01 Registered User

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    @Matt2010 I made the jump and have no regrets, I'll quickly recap on some points below but I'd recommend getting in one for a test drive and I'm sure you'll be sold like I was... feel free to drop me a PM if you have any further questions.

    The good; the M3P handles significantly better than any of the Tesla's other models and the build quality is much much better than you may be reading about online, but it is still not on par with German rivals and you will have delivery issues almost guaranteed. Remember that Tesla have only been building cars for ~15 years, in comparison to Audi's ~110 years.

    It is fast. Ludicrously fast. It will take you by surprise every time you put your foot down, even though you as the driver know what to expect. Your passengers will wince and make funny noises when you put you foot down. It's noticeably quicker than my RS3 was and with the torque of a train. Obviously does not have the noise to go with it but for me I have got by without this just fine. It is a shame, but I'm a tech geek primarily and the other aspects of the car more than make up for it to me personally.

    The throttle response is instant. There is no turbo to spool, no revs to build, no gears. You are always in the 'torque band' - full face-battering torque is there from the millisecond that you want it. If you mash the accelerator, the car will launch you forward quicker than your foot can touch the floor.

    Whilst you are very aware that the car weighs over 2 tonnes whilst driving it, especially when attempting to brake quickly, Tesla have worked miracles on the suspension setup for the performance model and coupled with a very low centre of gravity and almost 50/50 weight distribution, I can guarantee that the handling will surprise you with how direct it is. Unfortunately I haven't driven the TT-RS so I can't compare to that, but it's definitely at least on-par (or dare I say it, better) than my RS3 was.

    Oh, and the car can be suprisingly playful. Put it in track mode, and you will be able to slide sideways with ease if you so desire.

    The bad; If you think Audi's after-sales support/dealership experience is bad, then do not buy a Tesla. The after-sales support is non-existent. Tesla do not have phone lines for anything except their Sales staff. You will not be able to physically speak to someone at Tesla, and instead you will need to email them in which case you might get a response in two weeks or so. This is huge problem at the moment and incredibly frustrating for owners.

    Any delivery defects you spot (dust under paint, very light scratches and condensation on the rear light in my case) then good luck getting them fixed if you did not note them prior to signing on the dotted line at delivery. In Tesla's eyes all of these defects are "within factory spec" and they'll just tell you where to go.

    Oh, and if you get behind the wheel of one then be careful in reverse... since there's only one gear and it switches direction in reverse, it means you have full power in reverse and it is only electronically speed limited. I learnt this the hard way after almost giving myself whiplash.

    Running costs; my work commute used to cost me £20 a day in the Audi, and now it's less than £1 a day. If you switch energy tarrif to a low off-peak and charge at home, expect it to cost you between 1 and 2 pence a mile.

    Road tax is free (but you still pay the luxury vehicle tax of ~£320 a year)

    There is no servicing.

    No London congestion charge.

    In summary; it's all about what's important to you. The car falls short in some areas, but makes up for it in others. Getting in and it feels like I am driving the future everyday, or seeing that an update is available and being excited to read about what's changed... what other car gets better with time?

    They are releasing an update shortly to improve power/range by 5% yet again. Their last update that did this took 0-60 from 3.5 to 3.2 - so I should imagine this one will make it around 3.1 or 3.0 flat. No other manufacturer would do something like this for free.

    Oh and I'm sure you've all heard about the government plans to discuss potentially allowing EV's to drive in Bus Lanes, free parking, etc? Handy little side benefit.

    To everyone else, please don't knock the car until you've driven it. I know fellow petrol heads will shake and cry with rage "muh engine!" but it's difficult to grasp why they are selling hundreds of these a day in the UK alone until you get behind the wheel of one. I'm still a petrol head at heart, but it just so happens that I'm without the petrol bit for the foreseeable.

    Hope that helps.

    Oh and here's a link for free supercharger miles if you end up getting one as a company car to take advantage of the 0% BIK mate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  30. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    Good review. Does slightly tempt me to at least test drive one!
     
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  31. Callump01

    Callump01 Registered User

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    Bristol let me get in a P100D for 2 (almost 3) days without even pushing for it. They're not commission based so it doesn't bother them if you buy the car or not. Give it a go when you're free D0C! :icon thumright:

    I still love my Audi's so I should imagine I'll be about at the next major event or something, or happy to take anyone for a spin if they're local to South Wales.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2019
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  32. Matt2010

    Matt2010 Registered User

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    @Callump01 Some excellent info there so many thanks for that :)
    I actually got very close yesterday to pulling the trigger but the lack of local 'service centres' if there were any problems is a real issue as it would mean a 3 hour+ drive - and thats without any waiting for it to be fixed time. If it had to stay in overnight then I don't know what I'd do.
    For now I'm going sit tight and see how things go as the BIK change doesn't happen until next April anyway.
    It would also mean getting rid of my RS3 which is on PCP which could be a slight issue.
    But I agree about the tech, it looks ace and I imagine the big brands are slightly nervous just how behind they are.
    Tell me, how much do some dealers (not just Audi) charge for simple things like sat nav updates :blink:
     
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  34. Callump01

    Callump01 Registered User

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    You're very welcome mate.

    Don't forget that there are significantly less moving parts in an electric vehicle compared to a traditional ICE vehicle. From a quick bit of research that could potentially be wrong, the drivetrain of a normal ICE vehicle contains around 20,000 moving parts whereas a Tesla 'drivetrain' equivalent will have around 20 total moving parts including the cooling, so breakdowns are very few and far between and fixes will be simple.

    For the most part any issues you encounter will be resolved by the 'Tesla Rangers' who will diagnose your car remotely (it's always connected to the internet) and will order any parts, then come out to your house and fix it. If you do need to organise travel from a service centre then they will either give you a loaner vehicle for as long as needed, £100 in Uber credit per day, or sometimes pay for your local hotel stay if that's preferable.

    My RS3 was also on PCP but I sold to a random specialist dealership in Derby so they paid it all off for me before I handed over the keys.

    Definitely worth waiting to get that sweet 0% BIK though, that's going to be a huge saving for you!

    I'm starting to sound like a sales rep for Tesla now :scared2:
     
  35. Matt2010

    Matt2010 Registered User

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    Haha, you sure do. I read about the Tesla Rangers but didn't know if they cover nationwide?
    I'm out in the sticks so there is no Uber local and even the nearest Tesla charger is 20+ miles away but charging from home would be just fine on drive.
    Having only ever seen one in the flesh from behind briefly, how big is it compared to the RS3? I like the idea of it being more compact.
    I guess 3 kids in the back would work ok too?
     
  36. Callump01

    Callump01 Registered User

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    I'd say it's about A4 - A5 size from rough estimation. It's a fairly wide car too. The car would happily seat 3 kids (or adults) in the rear seats as there's no transmission tunnel going through the floor so it's completely flat.

    As far as I am aware, yes they do cover nationwide. I'm also out in the sticks nestled deep in the Welsh valleys and despite there being very few chargers nearby I never really have to use them anyway. Car is always fully charged when I wake up every morning and if I do need to do a long return drive (to London) then there are Tesla superchargers or non-Tesla rapid chargers dotted all along the M4 (and at 98% of all the Welcome Break service stations) so I just stop for 15-20 mins to charge fully and for a quick bite to eat and then go on my merry way. It's nowhere near as inconvenient as I thought it would be in all honesty.

    With the Model 3, you can also use both CCS and Type 2 chargers which is a huge benefit in the UK. Almost all Rapid Chargers will have CCS (meaning you don't need to buy a stupidly expensive £500 adapter for Type 2 -> CCS) and with Type 2 also, you're pretty much guaranteed to be able to use any slow, fast or rapid charge point you stumble across in the wild. A lot of Tesco, Morrisons, Sainsburys and Lidl stores have them and they're free of charge which is great if you want to stop for a shop and get a few electrons into the battery at the same time.

    Sidenote; Autopilot makes long boring journeys or traffic a breeze. I could not go back to a car without this level of autonomous driving again.
     
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  37. Matt2010

    Matt2010 Registered User

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    Damn it, now I'm tempted again :)
     
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  38. Slowracer

    Slowracer Registered User

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    Great review. I’d definitely see an EV in my garage somewhere in the next 5+ years. Being in a big country like Australia it will take some time for the charging network coverage to be convenient enough. At this stage Id be more interested in looking at the middle ground of hybrids.

    Keep us updated on your ownership experience. It be great to know how you feel about the car once the honeymoon period is over.

    For the time being I’ll just enjoy my noisy, fossil burning, old school jalopy while I still can. :)
     
  39. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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    Callum.

    What I don't understand is all this Zen like "you must have one" from owners coupled with "look how fast it is". My car will get to 100mph in under 7s but I don't spout on about it every post nor do I "mash the throttle" all day every day, surely you don't either. One or two shots of hyper speed and don't you then go back to the daily grind in what is otherwise an average car?

    TX.

    Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk
     
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  40. X3man

    X3man Well known member

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    Great write up there!
     
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  41. Callump01

    Callump01 Registered User

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    I 'spout' on about it because for me and many other owners the instant torque and speed is one of the best features of the car and why the performance model is the best selling in the 3 range despite being almost twice the cost of a standard Model 3; to someone who hasn't driven a performance-orientated electric vehicle it's hard to convey how completely different they drive to a traditional ICE vehicle (not needing to use the brakes takes some getting used to...)

    It's no doubt a very average looking car in comparison to something like an RS; but that's part of the charm for me personally. It doesn't need to scream "Look at me!" with a fat exhaust and an aggressive look and yet will still leave pretty much anything in the dust at the traffic light grand prix. As Chris Harris from Top Gear said, "It's like an AK-47, disguised as a butter knife."

    My RS was my daily driver and whilst I absolutely loved the car and miss it a lot, if we're comparing dailies between the Tesla and RS for me then there is just no comparison there for me. The level of autonomy and tech the Tesla has blows your mind (and the minds of anyone sitting in the passenger seat...) - it sees everything on the road. The car that's tucked behind a lorry 15 car lengths ahead? Yep, it's mapped right on the display for you to see if you really want to see that info for some reason. There's a car in the right hand lane is slowly edging towards your lane? The car will compensate and hug left side of the lane a little more.

    I was driving back from Bristol on the M4 in the pouring rain and an old Purgeot 208 was in the right-hand lane, indicated left and then immediately after indicating aggressively pulled into my lane and 110% would have hit the front drivers side of my car if it hadn't autonomously swerved out of the way... in that split second the car had been watching what that Purgeot was going to do, predicted a collision was about to happen, checked the left hand lane to see if it was free and had swerved my car into that free lane to avoid the collision all without any input from me. I didn't realise what had happened properly until I got home and checked the built-in dashcam footage which shows the footage from 4 of the 8 cameras on the car.

    I think there's two sides to the car really and it's not just a one trick pony as most would think. An example for you is when I leave for work in the mornings, I do absolutely nothing on my work commute. One finger resting on the wheel and let the car do the rest. This is exactly what you want for a daily boring work commute, then on the weekends when I want to have a little fun I'll put it in track mode and the car will completely change it's dynamics. The back end will kick out if you give it the beans around a corner and the instant torque means you can launch out of corners at crazy speeds with ease. The level of grip is immense (but I will say, you'll shred tyres very fast)

    For me, it's a different kind of fun and a different kind of driving experience.
     
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  42. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Didn’t lend me one though! Throw pots as they are.

    No chance of me ever buying what is effectively a new lifestyle off of the back of a few minute test drive.
     
  43. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    My brief input, I’ve seen Callum’s car and had the pleasure of working on it... it’s a beautiful piece of kit. The interior is such a nice place to be albeit basic, it’s somewhere I know I’d happily sit in hours on end in ultimate comfort and ease of driving. Paintwork is shocking, absolutely shocking and the ‘frunk’ (front boot) hinge was extremely loose... quality control at Tesla doesn’t seem the best but mainly the paint is awful, I found 30+ dust specs under the paint, paint runs in door shuts and on the edge of one door.

    Performance is staggering, but not for me I don’t think... even as a passenger I think you get used to it. The initial wow is definitely there but lacks any emotion, the fun would be taking friends out in it or shocking people on the road rather than pure driving pleasure.

    My combustion engine cars are firmly staying for now, in the future as a daily driver a Tesla would be welcome but it could never completely replace what I have now.
     
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