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Replacing Concert 3 with Concert 3 with DAB

rum4mo Aug 12, 2018

  1. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    I know that there is a dedicated ICE section, but I think that I might get more replies to my questions if I post it in this section.
    So, I am considering replacing my Concert 3 AM/FM with a used Concert 3 with DAB, I understand that I will need a DAB aerial pre amp and probably a new aerial lead.
    Has anyone else done this swop on an early 2011 S4 saloon using used correct p/n parts and was component protection removal required for a used Concert 3 of the same age? Also does the new aerial pre amp cover FM and DAB and so can it just replace the AM/FM pre amp in the car, but get used with a new double Fakra cable?
    Thanks in anticipation!
     
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  3. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Hi

    I'd imagine CP will need removing. What's a Concert 3? Mine just says Concert - is it just the version that was fitted in the B8?

    Thanks
     
  4. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Concert 3 is the Generation 3 offering of Concert, when I began this "mini project" I did not know that as the radio only has Concert on its front face, but after doing a lot of searching around I can confirm that the correct name is Concert 3, there are lots of Concert 3 radios with DAB for sale on ebay but I am only considering a "same for same + DAB" for my swop, other Audis used Concert 3 and seem to have slightly different p/ns - even the manufacturer's p/ns are different - in my case, an early 2011 date of manufacture car Concert 3 is Panasonic CQ-JA1971G so I'm aiming to buy a CQ-JA1973G which is Concert 3 + DAB.

    If anyone out there has done this swop, can they confirm my thoughts that I just need to replace the AM/FM aerial preamp with a DAB aerial preamp which is also an AM/FM + DAB aerial preamp?

    Also, new lead, I can't find anywhere that is selling a long AM/FM + DAB lead for an Audi A4.

    After reading the postings in the ICE section I can see that component protection will need to be removed, which will probably mean a visit to my Audi main dealer, though I hear that they do not encourage this sort of thing as they would rather sell me a brand new radio with DAB etc.
     
  5. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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  6. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    It looks like it should be the correct kit, but, unfortunately I have already contacted Kufatec UK about what I was wanting to achieve, ie adding DAB to a non DAB Concert 3 radio in a 2011 Audi A4 - and they replied that they were sorry but they did not have any kits that would let me achieve that!
    Now I had looked through their site and maybe not bumped into that option, if so I would have quoted it to them, I have bought parts from Kufatec in the past so I do trust their kits.
    I'll just bought a used Concert 3 with DAB from the usual place, so I hope that it is not listed as stolen when I get my Audi dealer to remove component protection!
     
  7. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Let me know how you get on mate as I'd be interesting in doing this mod too. Cheers
     
  8. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone tell me what the generic name is for the DAB aerial input connector on the rear of the Concert 3 radio - probably the same for all DAB tuner inputs on Audis, the preamp end will be Fakra socket, but I don't know what the front end is and I don't have the replacement radio with DAB yet to check, thanks in advance.
     
  9. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Black socket looks like a single Fakra
     
  11. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    You could well be correct, I've never seen a picture of the rear of one of them that has been so clear!

    Maybe, if you are interested in the Kufatec solution, send them an email from the enquiry area on their UK website, that would clear that up for you, also you will probably need to replace the aerial preamp, I have not checked mine yet to see if this is true, and add a new DAB aerial lead, I was going to buy a 5 meter long one as I don't think a 3 meter long one will be long enough.

    Edit:- I've never managed to work out the true differences between some of these p/ns, ie between that "8R1" version and "8T1" versions - normally the first group of letters indicates the first platform that the revised part was fitted to - ie revised after the end of "8T1" production, then there is the last group of 3 numbers, in my case "035" but also available with "057".

    I do know that normally "8T1" is for LHD and "8T2" is for RHD and "8T0" is not handed specific.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
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  13. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    I'll give them a shout. Is yours an Avant or saloon? If saloon where is the aerial preamp located?

    I thought the first 3 identified the Audi model but not sure about the rest of the digits apart from the last letter being a revision number
     
  14. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Mine is a Saloon, the aerial is in the back window and the aerial preamp should be in the driver's side C pillar, I have yet to investigate that to see if maybe all S4s were fitted with the FM/AM + DAB preamp, I'd doubt that though - but until I've looked I can't say.

    As for the Audi or any other model type, the 8T part is A5 B8, so these Concert 3 radios have been revised after the start of A5 B8 production, if they were A4 B8 they would start with 8K. I'm sure that there is a good reason for the "035" and the "057" similar parts to exist.

    On the Kufatec issue, I wonder if it is the age of my car that caused them to say "no" - there have been quite a few changes it seems - that is why I'm making sure that I buy a similar "type/version" and age to my car's build date, really to minimise disappointment/failure.

    Edit:- I'm not sure what drives the preamp to be located in the LHS or RHS C pillar, but I am guessing that for RHD it is on one side and for LHD on the other side, time will tell!

    Another Edit:- if you look at that picture on your previous posting you will see that it is a 8R1 057 186, what I am unclear about is that while that picture shows that the extra aerial input, ie for DAB is definitely a Fakra type, it might just be that the version that would have been fitted to my/our cars if DAB had been chosen, might be an older type of connector as I have not been able to make out a black Fakra connector on any of the ones I've looked at - but as I said, that is the clearest picture that I have seen of the rear of a Concert 3 with DAB.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2018
  15. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Well, I've commented on your picture of the rear of a Concert 3, given a reasonable answer as to why that one has a Fakra connector for DAB and why what I have ordered might not, then ordered a 5 meter Fakra female to Fakra female cable and that had another look at the pictures of the rear of the Concert 3 I have bought on ebay that is same type/version/age to what is in my car - with the addition of DAB, and then worked out that these earlier ones have SMB connector!
    So, to get out of that problem, I've ordered the only adaptor that I could find to improve things and that was a Fakra male to SMB female, which just left me with an SMB male to male adaptor to buy, which I have now done in case that connector on the rear of the Concert 3 I have bought is SMB female, if it is male then I've only wasted the cost of that SMB male to male adaptor.
    Basically I've been too hasty in making sure that when I get that radio and fit it, it will be able to stay fitted as long as getting component protection removed does not reveal that I have bought a declared stolen radio, as opposed to a radio removed from a scrapped car, at that time I'll also be routing the DAB aerial lead back to the existing AM/FM aerial and I'll either find that it includes DAB, which I doubt, or I'll be able to record its p/n so that I can start looking for one - not many if any seem to appear on ebay as used,I'm guessing car scrappies don't see that component of being of any real value, so bin them or crush the metalwork with them still fitted.
     
  16. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    I have just worked out that there is probably no magic in the Fakra connectors, in fact I think that they are just SMB co-axes with a plastic retainer added so that in this sort of use, the SMB connectors will not work loose, correct me if I'm wrong there, looking through many listings of Audi aerial preamps on ebay forced me to come to that conclusion as some have had their Fakra retainers destroyed while being removed from the cars, others end up with the cables being cut so the mating parts are still together - as well as in the production environment it makes life easier if every connector can only fit the correct mating connector, so Fakra also introduces a sort of keying to avoid any production line mess ups.
    Another thing, I have been on the hunt for an AM/FM and DAB Audi aerial preamp - it looks like there never use one, only an FM and DAB now as the minimum level of preamp, once I get hold of my Concert 3 with DAB I will be able to work out if it still has AM, as well as FM and DAB, the usual descriptive blurbs I've found say that Concert 3 is AM and FM, DAB can be specified as an option but obviously can not be added on after sale.
    I have not been able to source a right angled Fakra cable to run from the new aerial, only a straight one, so hopefully I'll be able to sort things out so that that new cable does not end up getting crushed behind the D pillar trim, where there is a will etc etc!
     
  17. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Thanks for the info mate - this is what Kufatec replied with:

    "I dont know what car you have, as there is no vin attached, but Fistune will not work with chorus/concert/symphony units, I am assuming you are A4/A5/Q5 platform,

    you would require a whole new concert with built in DAB for this upgrade, we do not list these, its a genuine Audi part number

    Feel free to contact us if you have any other questions."
     
    q5man likes this.
  18. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I gave them my VIN to work on, that sort of ties in with what I discovered, really a bit of a shame though as it looked like I had been given the wrong advice - I had not found that kit that you did though. So many different versions of ICE have been fitted to these cars since late 2007 it seems.
     
  19. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so I've fitted my DAB Concert 3 radio that I bought via ebay I bought a cheap DAB aerial from Halfords just to prove that the radio works okay but I did not connect the power lead up. This radio seems to work okay on DAB AM and FM so the DAB signal must be okay locally - which amazed me! One other point for anyone doing this, as long as you keep the ignition off the radio will function fully, so that gives you a chance to get check if it seems to work okay before paying to get Component Protection removed, my only mistake was not to stuff a CD or memory card into it, too late now to check that.
     
  20. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    So you connected everything to the radio then pressed the on/off button rather than turning on the key. This allows it to work without getting the CP removed?

    What was the part number of the radio you bought please?

    Cheers
     
  21. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is what I did, if I had known exactly how things would pan out, I would have tried a CD in the player and maybe a card in the card slot to complete checks to make sure that it looked like it was all okay. I was surprised how many DAB station I could get when I was in my garage and the aerial I used did not have its amplifier powered up, unless of course the normal power being sent out the DAB aerial socket powered up the Autoleads cheap DAB aerial's own amp.

    My original Concert 3 was a 8T2 035 186P, so I replaced it with a Concert 3 with DAB which is a 8T2 035 186Q.

    As the radio switched on when I was installing it, it has logged some faults and also some other faults are logged in the car due to this radio being set up for an A5 with some extras my car does not have, but that is easy to sort through recoding to the same code as the original radio had. One other thing seems to be that my car will have lost any functionality of any options or setting that I have made to my car, like OPS with front sensors, TPMS and something else that I've forgotten about. If my Audi Indie can remove Component Protection tomorrow or Friday I can sort out the coding and clear all stored faults and see if this swop is good.

    There are holes in the sides of the centre vents and at the base of the air con control unit that you use to extract them from the dash, also the aerial lead for my original radio seemed very short, but once I had removed it I discovered that it had been trapped at an edge so that limited the radio's initial freedom of movement until I discovered that.
     
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  22. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Thanks for the detailed reply mate, very helpful cheers. Mine too is 8T2 035 186P so I'll keep a look out for one with a Q suffix. Please can you let me know how things go once you've had the CP removed?
     
  23. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    I will do, just waiting for a slot at that Audi Indie, I need to fix a date/time.

    Another way to check for these radios on eBay etc is by their official Panasonic part number, which is CQ-JA1973G .
     
  24. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Thanks found another one!

    Cheers
     
  25. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    I managed to change the coding for the new radio using VCDS, so that means that I have my "S4" splash screen back! Cleared all logged faults and the only remaining issue that the radio is in Component Protection mode, so I need to phone my VW Group Indie very soon.

    On this general issue about swopping parts that need trim and other interior parts removed, I do have a good selection of plastic and steel trim removal tools, but it seems that VW Group dealers also use trim removal hooks - and searching for anything like that on Google and ebay did not return any reasonable examples, so I shortened my search terms and found:- fishing hook removal tools and bought a disgorger hook for about £5, also found some tent peg hooks, as I had already bought a pair of them years ago for garage use(?) - and used one of them to remove the Air Con control panel, so I've also ordered a smaller diameter(hopefully) version for £2 - all to add to my box of trim removal tools! The fishing tool is actually a 6" disgorger hook and branded by Leeda, hopefully I can bend the U bent end into an L shape.
     
  26. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Well now I've been to a local VW Group Indy Specialist and they have removed Component Protection, so my radio is now working okay. I'm still waiting for the used DAB Audi aerial amplifier to get delivered and I can finish off this job.
     
  27. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    How much did the specialist charge Rum4mo? Also did they need the reg number of the donor vehicle? What will adding the Audi DAB aerial amp give you over and above the Halfords aerial?

    I've got a trampoline spring T-tool that I use to remove vents and such - only cost a few £ from eBay and works a treat. Something like this

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trampoli...754262?hash=item1c6ec90d96:g:eFUAAOSwCmZZOUDg
     
  28. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    The holes in the centre vents are roughly 1/8” and the access is not brilliant, so for that you need a smaller hook and best to make it a right angle. The holes at the lower surface of the HCAC control panel are a lot bigger, but best attacked with a right angled hook.

    It cost me £66 and only took 15 minutes, I offered the reg number that was on the radio, but they said that they did not need it. The guy doing that job sounded like he did not believe me that the new radio worked okay until I switched on the ignition.
    When I first switched on the ignition I think that my plan was to connect to VCDS, check and record the soft coding of the new radio, then recode it with the soft code from the original radio, but maybe because that radio had then just gone into Component Protection mode, VCDS could not talk to it. Now, I think that if I had waited a few minutes VCDS would have been able to talk to that radio because the next day or so, I ran a scan of the car, then changed the soft coding to that of the original radio while it was still in Component Protection.
    Reason for fitting an Audi DAB aerial preamp - really just to keep it as original parts used as possible, I am still waiting for the DAB amplifier so I have not looked behind the D pillar on the RHS, currently the Autoleads aerial with amplifier is just sitting on top of the dash with the centre vents still not back in place fully as the aerial lead is coming out of that opening.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
  29. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Well that is this job completed, my used Audi DAB aerial amplifier arrived yesterday and I fitted it today along with the 5 meter cable.
     
  30. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify for anyone doing this radio change to include DAB, the original aerial booster amplifier is located in the LHS D pillar and covers AM/FM and maybe something else. When you retrofit DAB, you need to add a second aerial booster amplifier and it gets fixed to the RHD D pillar and you will find a cable located there to connect that side of the rear screen aerial to your new aerial booster amplifier, you might need to be creative when it comes to finding a retained nut to fit through the rectangular cut out in the body - a new aerial booster seems to come with the correct fitting but used ones mainly don't. Also buy a right angled SMB adaptor unless you manage to source an aerial lead with a right angled connector. I just bought a straight female Fakra to straight female Fakra 5 meters in length, removed the plastic Fakra from the end being routed to the rear of the car (makes it easier to route the cable without it fitted), then fitted the right angled SMB to the newly fitted aerial booster amplifier pointing rearwards/downwards, and connected the now bare female SMB to that - job done!

    Edit:- the used DAB aerial amplifier I bought and used was 8K5 035 225 AC and it is just a DAB version, it seems to have been superseded in 2014 or so with maybe an "F" version, but "AC" version would be the version fitted to a car with DAB specified back in 2011 etc if that car did not have lots of other options like TV and maybe SatNav.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2018
    MarkWizard likes this.
  31. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Thanks for the very detailed help, sorry would have replied sooner but have been on holiday.

    Much appreciated, cheers
     
  32. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    MarkWizard, did you ever complete this radio swop and if so what parts did you use?
     
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  34. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Morning Rum, no I didn't. I've sold my A4 and bought a Volvo V40 instead....
     
  35. rum4mo

    rum4mo Well-Known Member

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    Oh well, an alternative way to get DAB I suppose, enjoy!
     
  36. MarkWizard

    MarkWizard Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Thanks! Oh and a nice 5 cylinder engine and even a glovebox light as standard!
     

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