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Replacement turbo for 3.0tdi

wayne n Oct 30, 2016

  1. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    Hi all,
    I would like some info on the limits of the std turbo on the 3.0tdi, are there other turbos from the vag range that could be fitted as an upgrade? Is there a particular turbo that lends itself to greater tuning capacity? Anyone have first hand experience with tuning this engine and the pro's and cons.
    Thanks
     
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  3. Pyeman

    Pyeman Member VCDS Map User

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    wayne n likes this.
  4. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Hi Wayne,
    There are several different versions of the 3.0 TDI fitted in the A6 C6 range of cars. Do you know what the engine code is on your car ?
    Failing that what year is it and what is the power output ?.
     
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  5. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Assuming your forum picture is your car it's a A6 DIESEL AVANT - 3.0 TDI 233 Quattro S Line 5dr Tip Auto
    So the engine code is very likely an ASB.
    The 233 bhp V6 in these uses the KKK BV50 turbo.
    The problem with these is there really isn't an easy upgrade path for them. The turbo's on them are not that strong compared to the later Garret GTB2260 items and the electronic actuator on them works completely differently from the Garret item.
    Physically probably not to difficult to fit a hybrid GTB2260 on the engine, the oil feed and oil drain are completely different on the Garret but the bigger issue would probably be sorting the electronic actuator.
    Whereabouts are you in the country.
    @bobby singh may have some more ideas.
     
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  6. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Found this article that I have seen before.
    http://www.ecuconnections.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33141&start=25
    Basically it seems that certain ECU's have the ability to drive the Garret actuators so a change of ECU and some wiring changes between the ECU and turbo actuator would enable a Garret turbo to be used.
    Alternatively an upgrade BV50 turbo with a free flowing exhaust should be good for around 320 bhp.
    http://www.fin-turbo.fi/turboahtimet/fin-turbo-upgrade-turbos-tdi.html

    http://www.fin-turbo.fi/media/wysiwyg/BW_FT_-_billett.jpg
     
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  7. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    New to the Audi scene so apologies for not stating engine code (ASB) I assumed all the c6 3.0tdi's used the same turbo. I'm looking for the least complicated way to gain more boost, thought they maybe a quick bolt on solution but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case. I spoke to a local tuning company who informed me the tubos failure rate increases past 270 bhp but they could offer a 2260 turbo upgrade for £1000 which should push the power to 300-310 bhp.
    Think I will call a local turbo builder and enquire about going down the hybrid route.
     
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  8. Pyeman

    Pyeman Member VCDS Map User

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    Quickest way to gain boost is a remap.

    I would fit a 3 bar map sensor also. The sensor will need mapping in.


    Do some research first. TDIclub.com is a great place to start.
     
    wayne n likes this.
  9. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Im actually in the middle of doing some research for a 2260 on a BV50 car.
    I'm making good progress but have more ground to cover. Test ecu is on the way together with some hardware.

    However, I've tuned BV50 cars to 300hp / 680nm approx as mentioned above they need at least 1.9 bar.
    Main issue is the bv50 uses a VDO actuator and 2260 has a hella.
     
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  10. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    Have you tried a hybrid Bv50 that still runs a VDO actuator?
     
  11. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    What do you mean when you say hybrid? this could mean anything? if it just a cw change then that doesn't change much for the unit being reliable. I know a few guys in Finland have tried BV50 hybrids (better CW) and managed 330hp.

    Far better with a 2260 that has proven to be a solid unit with nice upgrade path.
     
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  13. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    I mean replace components to increase flow and reliability. What is the turbos main weakness and do you think 300bhp /680nm is a safe power to run the std unit?
     
  14. adamss24

    adamss24 Registered User

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    The problem with the bv50 is the weak turbine shaft, by replacing the compressor wheel you don't eradicate the problem but you're putting the turbine under even more stresses ! I do not know if there are uprated turbine wheels for these turbos available aftermarket but I believe that petrol turbines will go in with a bit of machining ! As mentioned above by Bobby, the gtb2260vk is a very reliable unit with strong upgrades which can take it to over 350 Bhp !
     
  15. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Yes they are fine at that power level from what i seen. But then i see failures on stock units haha
    VDO actuators tend to give up as well. But thats often down to added load from bad vanes.
     
  16. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    So to cut to the chase I could have my turbo rebuild in std form and should be quite reliable to 300bhp /680nm. Then at a later date look into upgrading to a gtb2260vk and replacement ecu. So my next question who's a recommended mapper in the Yorkshire region.
    Thanks for all the reply's its much appreciated fellas
     
  17. Simon968

    Simon968 Registered User

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    If you are in North Yorkshire, you could try Big Fish Tuning in Stokesley.
    He has a good reputation and seems to know his stuff.
     
  18. adamss24

    adamss24 Registered User

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    Guys, for 3.0 tdi mapping Look No further than Bobby Singh- there is nothing about That engine he doesnt know about !
     
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  19. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    But isn't he in London?
     
  20. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Hi Wayne I had my car mapped by @Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. in Stockport. He mapped the standard turbo with a DPF removed and mapped the hybrid that is on my car now, It's about a 75 mile trip for me to get there but well worth it.
    He is a forum sponsor and has mapped many peoples cars on here, both diesel and petrol.
    https://www.facebook.com/UnicornMotorDevelopments/
    You won't go wrong with Rick mapping the car he will get the most out of it whilst keeping it safe.
     
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  21. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    I have spoken to a local turbo builder and outline the concerns with the weak shaft, he tells me the petrol turbo shafts have a higher nickel content to allow for the the higher rotational speeds so he would rebuild my turbo with a bigger stator and the petrol shaft for around £500+vat
     
  22. Pyeman

    Pyeman Member VCDS Map User

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    There are a few companies now doing hybrid BV50 turbo's.

    I've just got mine back with 60mm extended tip billet compressor, modified turbine and re-profiled compressor housing all for £395+ Vat and done here in the UK. It should be good for 300+ bhp.

    I'll try and get some pic's up at the weekend.
     
    wayne n likes this.
  23. GDS968

    GDS968 Registered User

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    Looking to get my 3.0ltr TDi mapped. Anyone know of a good mapper in the Norfolk area?
     
  24. Toho1759

    Toho1759 Registered User

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    Hi I'm new to the Tdi world
    I have just bought a 2006 a6 allroad 3.0tdi (ASB)
    Im looking to get try and get 350+Bhp. The 2260vk and ecu change sounds interesting
    if someone can advise me where is the best place to have all the work done that would be a great help I'm in Glasgow but I'm willing to travel
    Thanks
     
  25. adamss24

    adamss24 Registered User

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    Send a pm to Bobby Singh at BS Racing... He might be able to help you !
     
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  26. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Bear with me I have job to convert bv50 to 2260.
    By mid feb i'll have some results
     
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  27. adamss24

    adamss24 Registered User

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    Bobby, of YOU Need any help please let me know...
     
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  28. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Thanks Chris - I'll let you know :)
     
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  29. Toho1759

    Toho1759 Registered User

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  30. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    There's no easy way to do this. If make a hybrid actuator you would still need to fiddle a lot with the linkage to get it working correctly and possibly alter some of the coding in the map. I think if it was easy enough a lot of people would have already done it.
     
  31. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    BV50 to 2260 project

    Well I spend some time on this project and I managed to get the ecu to control the Hella actuator. However, the immo was blocking issue for me. I spoke to a few people including VCDS about adapting the immo 4 data but no joy.

    All the guys to whom I’ve spoken to wanted paying regardless of success or not – I can understand this but there is only so much time and money that can be thrown at this.

    Here is what I did:

    Got a 2.7 V6 engine (they come with a 1756vk – hella) harness and started work to transfer it to the BV50 car.

    But I noticed some of the wiring under the ECU were different –

    i. Glow plug relay in 2.7 was 40amp and in 3.0 70amp

    ii. Red plug had a wire missing

    iii. Black connector was different type in the 2.7 loom

    [​IMG]

    Decided to reverted back to stock and take the relevant wires from the 2.7 loom and merge them to the BV50.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Loaded flash, mpc and e2p from the 2.7 to the 3.0 and attempted to do a vcds actuator test:

    [​IMG]

    Then it was a case of trying to adapt / port the immo data from the target car but couldn’t make it happen.

    I tried immo off and the car ran etc but had SAFE on the dash.

    [​IMG]

    To physically mount the 2260 would not be too difficult. I would take 059145722M as it looks to be a close match for the BV50 downpipe. You’ll need the 2260 Y collector and return line.

    You have all the information if someone wants to continue.
     
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  32. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Hi Bobby, If you can't make it work I doubt there are many people who could or who would want to spend the time and effort to make it work.
    I think I saw something on one of the diesel tuning forums where they had used a BMW EDC16 ECU as that had the electronics to control the actuator. It's all a bit to complex though.
     
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  34. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Hi Karl, I think it can be done but just needs more time and funds thrown towards it.
    But this month is very busy for me so had to draw the line.

    My turbo guy did say he can make a nice hybrid with improved thrust bearing, larger turbine, nice cw, conti actuator etc.

    So thats another option.

    For now i tuned this bv50 and should be around 300hp 700nm so it's plenty for now.

    VAG edc16 cp34 is fine for this project so I wouldn't recommend changing ecu's. Its hard enough getting the immo to work with the same bosch pn.

    Audi said they could try to adapt the immo but again want paying regardless of it working or not. Also, i heard their online tool will look for matching ecu flash pn. Thats not hard to do but the uncertainty is.
     
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  35. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    Did you get any further with this bobby?
     
  36. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    No Wayne - its a gamble regarding the immo adaption working so without someone willing to throw money at it I can't go further.
     
  37. wayne n

    wayne n Registered User

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    That's a shame after all the time and effort you've put into it.
     
  38. bobby singh

    bobby singh BSR Gold Supporter VCDS Map User

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    There could be some hope on this - I will test and report back
     

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