1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

remapped my quattro thoughts please

Nambiker Dec 1, 2018

  1. Nambiker

    Nambiker New Member

    5
    0
    1
    Hi all, not really posted much on here before but i have spent a lot of time trolling all threads for info. dont attack me for sharing my figures. As always dynos always runs differently from place to place, I was at AMD tuning today and got my 3.0 tdi quattro remapped. My car is stock apart from a pipercross air filter which i put on last week. The initial dyno run before the map gave me a figure of 264.7hp@3732rpm with 429.4lb.ft @ 2358rpm. That figure is way above stock and surprised me. I was expecting it to be at 245 or below to be fair. After the map i have 316.6hp@3788rpm with 508.3lb.ft @ 2365.
    These figure sounds crazy and potentially not safe for the transmission.
    I will post the graph up in a few mins for you to see. my main concern is this figure too much and will it damage my engine. Surely they would not map my car to an unsafe state???
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Avatar

    Google AdSense Advertisement


  3. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

    6,448
    2,626
    113
    Depends what gearbox you have ?
     
  4. Nambiker

    Nambiker New Member

    5
    0
    1
    7 speed s tronic I think. I have the c7 with 245bhp and paddle shifters.
     
  5. Gazwould

    Gazwould Well-Known Member

    6,448
    2,626
    113
    Yes the S Chronic is the weaker box but can't remember the safe torque limit .
     
  6. The Black Panther

    The Black Panther Adventurer !

    426
    103
    43
    Your likely to be fine. But with any mod nothings guaranteed. Avoid doing too many launch controls as that will increase potential for issues.
     
    Nambiker likes this.
  7. THQuattro

    THQuattro Site Sponsor Site Sponsor Team Avus Silver Team Panther Team V8 Team V6 VCDS Map User Gold Supporter Team Silver Audi RS4 Audi S4 saloon Audi A4 quattro Audi Cabriolet Owner Group S-line owners group Manual

    2,112
    1,546
    113
    AMD are good mate and i have checked your figures on my mapping files and its about the same, i quoted on a 2015 C220 Merc this week and that will increase from 400nm to 500nm and a 2016 S6 from 650 to 900nm.
     
  8. Bishop187

    Bishop187 New Member

    23
    9
    3
    Looks like a great investment. Enjoy the extra power. I’m looking to get my a7 tdi 272 remapped from amd too


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Nambiker likes this.
  9. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

    2,842
    74
    48
    A 10% over-inflation is a lot lower than AMD used to fudge their numbers by... you're probably genuinely running ~280-285bhp at the flywheeel and probably 220bhp at the wheels... IF that chart was actually even your car - they probably just regurgitated a BiTDI map that they have on file because people with TDI's want to be told they have the same power as a BiTDI.

    Sorry about the rant, but I feel duty-bound to warn people about the REALLY bad experience with AMD: admittedly it was >10yrs ago now (from the old Bicester site), but I haven't gone near AMD since then and I wouldn't trust their dyno's as far as I could throw them.

    They did a LOT of work on one of my older cars... the mechanical work was good, but their dyno and diagnostics work was truly awful: they repeatedly gave me fairly implausible numbers that I disproved at various other dyno's (different makes and all the others were within a few percent of each other, while the AMD torque numbers in particular were consistently over-inflated).

    Not that anybody tuning a car should pay too much attention to the flywheel power ratings unless you're worried about drivetrain damage, but their flywheel numbers were massaged even further due to massively exaggerated transmission losses (I think they were fudging the tyre specs, etc). Across three different sessions in very similar conditions, I think they averaged about 20% higher than other tuning company's Dyno's... and the other people were getting power numbers exactly in line with expectations on those dyno days.

    Because of the misleading power numbers and repeated bad RR runs (if they happened at all!), AMD missed a broken FPR that meant my car was running dangerously lean when the Shrick high lift cam was installed and the fuelling couldn't keep up. No "bad detonation", but still not great that they let it happen.

    I raised all of the above with them at the time and despite me having spent >£10k with them in an 18 month period, they really didn't seem to care at all - the most they would offer was that I could do the 4 hour round trip again to have it dyno'd "again" on a Saturday morning... I was intrigued to see what the RR would say or what they would say in person, so I accepted and booked a date.

    The complete ambivalence continued: despite arriving before opening and being kept until the last few minutes before closing they gave me a print-out with a stock car's power run with the torque curve shifted up through the entire rev-range (very obvious from a stock torque curve vs a high lift cam profile). You could easily have disproven within 2mins of driving it as the torque drop-off was ~1000rpm higher in my car compared to stock, not to mention that they claimed it was making more low-rev torque than a stock car - but mine had high lift cams (and this is for an NA car!)...

    Despite me flagging that as an issue at the time, the guy just shrugged and said that I had a dyno run chart showing more power, what more did I want? I explained that this was the second attempt at getting AMD to do a proper dyno run after after the first one hadn't been done properly and they had missed some essential diagnostics because of it.... he conceded that they were pretty busy that day, so mine might have got mixed up, but if I "still thought it wasn't right", then I'd have to book it in for another day if I wanted to get it dyno'd again.... basically they'd booked me in on a day when they were too busy to bother and couldn't be fussed to do anything to make it right. I'd only taken the car in for that ONE thing! The most he would offer was that they could keep the car on site and dyno it "sometime next week".

    It clearly wasn't worth a 6 hour round train-trip to leave the car.... or another 4 hours of driving and 4 hours of waiting around to be messed about like that for a third time.

    They haven't got another penny of my money and all I can do is warn people not to waste their time or money with them... even if the dyno has been changed multiple times, it was the culture of fudging results and shocking attitude when they were caught doing it that I couldn't believe and makes me think that they can't be trusted ever again.

    I've heard several people say the dyno numbers they get elsewhere "seem lower than straight after they had the remap with AMD"... but nobody seems to have been messed around as badly as I was - or at least they haven't picked up on how much AMD were fudging results.

    AMD will just give you any old printout if they think it'll make you happy and put something on your forum signature saying "I got ###bhp with my AMD remap"... and most people will fall for it because they want to believe the over-inflated numbers and it's all good for their PR if people are repeating their claims... I've seen a fair few people turn up at dyno days claiming they're going some pretty ambitious numbers based on a previous AMD dyno only to fall flat on their faces... and the fallback that AMD will always have is that the failure they missed must have happened straight after the last dyno pull they did.

    Honestly: only go to AMD if you want to massage your ego with artificial power numbers or if you want a big number for your forum signature... go somewhere else if you want your car properly mapped and tested. At very least get it properly dyno'd somewhere else after AMD have messed around with it in case they've missed anything (or never bothered doing the dyno on your car).
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
    MrJolly likes this.
  10. Nambiker

    Nambiker New Member

    5
    0
    1
    @ BahnStormer77 thanks for sharing your experience with them. i cant fault them as they did my brakes all round and they are working still. Regarding the remap my figures does seem very high but i didnt get it done for bragging rights. the car pulls much better now and feels great to drive so it was worth it for me.
     
  11. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

    2,842
    74
    48
    I never had a problem with the mechanical work (and there was a lot!!*)... it was the shoddy dyno work where they seemed to be having a lot of problems and were quite happy to skip dyno runs and replace them with proxies, even when they were supposed to be doing the before and after runs for diagnostics around mechanical work.... and their attitude when concerns were raised over all the missing/misleading dyno work.

    *shocks and springs, strut braces, Brembo brake kit, gas flowed head, Shrick high lift cams (and all supporting head work - gaskets, springs, etc), sports cat and Miltek full stainless, PiperX COI, just to mention the more obvious items.

    The car had a lot more done to it than that, but those are the bits that AMD did. Their very first ever dyno run on the stock car was 20% over stock - even though I'd just had it dyno'd a few weeks earlier at a few percent under (in conditions that were probably 5deg warmer)... I didn't regard that as a major issue at the time and just dismissed it due to the temps.... but I should have realised what they were up to then, especially their reluctance to do proper before and after runs....

    IF you're getting work done with them, then in addition to getting it properly dyno'd elsewhere for your own peace of mind, I'd also insist seeing a copy of the full before and after adjustments sheet for EACH RUN (where they can adjust drivetrain losses - IIRC it was mostly around the tyre settings)... I've seen at least one example at a dyno day where a guy was complaining that the dyno was under-reading after the guy couldn't get the same results as he had after his AMD remap.... and the engineer showed us how to fudge a before and after to create a larger difference... "this is what we would do if we just wanted to stoke somebody's ego or justify overcharging for an upgrade"... suddenly AMD's reluctance to do transparent dyno runs made sense!
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  12. Avatar

    Google AdSense Advertisement


  13. Bishop187

    Bishop187 New Member

    23
    9
    3
    I’ve used Amd Woking before for a remap, they didn’t dyno the car, because they don’t have one there. And what they claimed the bhp outcome of the remap was, was about what you’d expect. I’m guessing you are talking about amd Essex. Did they ever dyno your car when you were there?

    This is what they claim on there website for the 3.0tdi 245 remap figures. So I the figures do seem a little high on the dyno results. So not sure what the make of the printout. But I but it still improves the car.

    [​IMG]

    Could his filter added on 24bhp

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    The Black Panther likes this.
  14. BahnStormer77

    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

    2,842
    74
    48
    It was their Bicester site - before they opened Woking+Essex (and closed Bicester).

    The car SHOULD have been dyno'd about 5-6 times if they'd stuck to what they'd quoted me in terms of before and after dyno runs to be done with each remap and grouping of engine work.

    Although I was handed 4 different print-outs, I suspect that the car was only ever properly dyno'd once or twice: the first ever "pre" run.... where it was 20% over stock, despite being stock... that first run sums up why they always seem to massively over-quote flywheel torque values as they fudge the drivetrain losses*.

    I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on one of the others (after the exhaust work and gas flowed head), where they fessed up to not doing the pre-run and handed me the post-run only... which was fractionally better than the first ever run - but not by that much given it was probably already being held back by the FPR.

    They also never included the settings or ATF ratio, so no way to see how much the drivetrain losses were being exaggerated or if they should have picked up on the FPR problem at that stage - but that only really became apparent later with the cams. I'm not sure they were even measuring the ATF!

    *for those that don't know: flywheel power (what is quoted by the manufacturer) can't actually be measured unless you take the engine out the car as there are drivetrain losses of anything between 10%-30% - depending on things like: drive shafts, bearings, gearbox type, differentials, transfer boxes, tyres, weight of the wheels, etc, etc, etc. These are estimated as the rolling road tests the resistance during the deceleration stage of a RR run... and this can be further adjusted by changing the values for tyre pressures/tread depth. This is why axle-mounted dyno's are so much more accurate as there is no tyre flex/slip/rubber/pressure to account for and taking the engine our completely is the the most accurate.

    Tuners will normally only work with WHP (WHEEL horsepower) as this most accurately reflects the performance of the car, but people who don't understand this don't like to pay for an upgrade and then be told that their car has gone UP from "245bhp" to "200whp".... or that their cosmetic change from 18" to 19" wheels has lost them 5whp :)
     
    Gazwould likes this.

Share This Page