Relentless V3 manifold installation and testing

[beachbuggy]

Depending on the correction method you prefer, wheel horsepower is 300-310. That's only OK for the motor and cams. I think the manifold also performs well - albeit alarmingly hot. If you look closely in the video you will see a small heat shield fashioned on the spot by Ed at ForceFed Engineering. But I think the F23 compressor wheel overmatches a standard K04 turbine casting. So the question is whether it's possible to modify the casting (machining) for better performance.

are you talking about over machining the turbine housing?

The big wheeled k04 currently installed had that on its initial turbine housing. It definitely flowed better top end but suffered hugely on extra lag by , I reckon 750- 1000rpm over the normal clearance I run... While I think it possibly ran better at 7000rpm, EGTs being lower it was a dog at low range, more like a BT turbo, and added insult being the massive gt35 compressor didn't really flow until rpms where high made for a pretty lowesy unit. Now whether running a smaller compressor , more in keeping with the 2283 and extra turbine clearance has any benefit may be worth looking into..

What I do have about to be tested is the eliminator turbine housing , which has considerably larger a/r on the turbine but the same 40mm inlet, couple with a gt28 turbine and compressor capable of 380bhp, it'll be run on an xs manifold etc etc and it'll be interesting to see if that can produce better figures.

I'll drop to a pm now as have something you may be interested in!

 

[slappy_dunbar]

I think the Eliminator housing will just net you a dog x 2. I hate those things. But your learnings with that big compressor wheel are confirmed with what I'm seeing on the smaller F23 wheel. The stock K04 turbine housing is pretty well soaked at 265g/s. But that doesn't mean it's a lost cause. I'm really interested in testing (cheaply-done) modding of that casting.

 

[beachbuggy]

What about running a larger turbine wheel?

Larger wheel , more gas out quicker?

 

[slappy_dunbar]

I think that's an option. But it'll hinder spool. First let's try machining the casting. What did you do with the big-wheel hybrid? Did you port the inlet and volute entry?

 

[beachbuggy]

Ported the inlet, ran about 1.5mm clearance on the exducer and ported the shoulder of the inducer, also removed that horrible lip curve on the waste gate/exducer and replaced it with a straight out shield directing waste gate gasses directly into dp. It was pretty radical tbh.

I've got a larger turbine to be fitted next...

 

[badger5]

Dyno on pump gas. 2.0L stoker with RS4-style camshafts. IATs were dreadful up top, but I don't think that much impacted peak numbers.

Your MM not working Doug? chirpy chirp chirp?

 

[beachbuggy]

Your MM not working Doug? chirpy chirp chirp?

Mm?? What's dat?

 

[Dani_B19]

Madmax dv im guessing.

 

[v5 tt]

Doug out of interest what compression pistons did you drop in your stroker engine ?

Thanks

Edit sorry dont mean to divert thread to much just used Google

Stock TT pistons ? ( 9.0.1 )
alterd rod ratio
Fsi crank

giving you 1968cc is this right ?

iv going for

83mm pistons 9.5.1
H-beam rods
fsi crank
2008cc

Cheers

 

[slappy_dunbar]

Man, you're resourceful.

Doug out of interest what compression pistons did you drop in your stroker engine ?

Thanks

Edit sorry dont mean to divert thread to much just used Google

Stock TT pistons ? ( 9.0.1 )
alterd rod ratio
Fsi crank

giving you 1968cc is this right ?

iv going for

83mm pistons 9.5.1
H-beam rods
fsi crank
2008cc

Cheers

Everything's correct but for the crank spec. It's a Chinese-sourced ALH-engine 95.5 stroke unit. And yes, the car's original pistons stayed with the car.


Old crank out:

Pistons out:

Honing the block in situ:

Re-ringing the pistons:

Pistons back in place:

RS4-profile cams in the head:

That's it. 1968cc. Cammed. In one day.

 

[v5 tt]

Oh wow thats excellent insight into a different approach to stroke the engine
excellent work great pics nice work doug !! really impressive !

:icon_thumright:

 

[badger5]

95.5 stroke? wowzers...

not your std pistons? 144x20 rods? eh? kinda sticks out of the block?.. hehe.. 83mm Pistons used? higher pins, the pistone pictured done look to have any valve reliefs for intake?

how was block clearance doug on crank swing to rods

what other mods were required for it?

I remember the timing wheel thing, but was that for a.n.other reason?

 

[v5 tt]

95.5 stroke? wowzers...
std pistons? 144x20 rods?
how was block clearance doug?

what other mods were required for it?
I remember the timing wheel thing, but was that for a.n.other reason?

Bill i "think" the con-rod ratio possibly made to match the stroke with the stock pistons
oil squirters were blocked off..... from what i caught.....

 

[slappy_dunbar]

Non-standard length connecting rods, Bill. Makes for a questionable rod angle ratio, so I've been very deliberate about thoroughly testing before (if ever) releasing this as a product. There's precedent for even more extreme angles, but not in European petrol engines. It's the Americans, playing with their big-block V8s, who have the experience.

 

[badger5]

Bill i "think" the con-rod ratio possibly made to match the stroke with the stock pistons
oil squirters were blocked off..... from what i caught.....

they would be clouted off otherwise I guess.
pin must be higher in piston with a stroke like that.. 95.5mm vs 86.4mm

interesting approach

 

[slappy_dunbar]

We removed the oil squirters and blocked off the holes. The conrods are rifle-drilled to compensate for the reduced oil flying around.

 

[v5 tt]

I like the thinking outside of the box though very cool all done in situ awesome

 

[badger5]

We removed the oil squirters and blocked off the holes. The conrods are rifle-drilled to compensate for the reduced oil flying around.

hmmm

remembering factory chose both oil spray + rifle drilling on std motors, to help cool piston crowns
What pistons are you running Doug? they look like simple dish no valve reliefs.

 

[slappy_dunbar]

Those are the car's original pistons. That's the idea of this design: retain your original pistons and no machine shop work. Simply hone the cylinders and re-ring the stock pistons. And those two procedures are optional, really.

 

[v5 tt]

And custom rod length to suit the stroke of the engine..

 

[badger5]

Those are the car's original pistons. That's the idea of this design: retain your original pistons and no machine shop work. Simply hone the cylinders and re-ring the stock pistons. And those two procedures are optional, really.

cool approach doug.
you selling this "kit" yet?

 

[slappy_dunbar]

Yup. And that nice phat TDI crank lends the motor tons of added leverage. You can see it here quite clearly. Also, since this is a manifold thread, you can see the top-end benefit of a high-performance manifold. I was wrong about the stock unit. It really hinders performance.

 

[slappy_dunbar]

cool approach doug.
you selling this "kit" yet?

Soon this will be entering beta testing, which will be limited to trade professionals. But first, Ed at FFE wants to dismantle the bottom end and send the crank to be measured for warpage. We've already flattened a set of rod bearings -- in less than a year of torture-testing -- so I think we can now double-check the crank to see how its holding up.

 

[v5 tt]

Actually from an old thread im sure there was an instance where TSR blocked off oil
squirters for a stroker application whether it was for a road or track car i really
cant remember....

But great idea Doug

 

[slappy_dunbar]

We blocked them off on the FrankenTT test. But I'd imagine they can simply be dropped a few mm with a nipple. That's a better way, and the kind of thing we'll be exploring in beta testing.