VeteranRich
2017 S3 Saloon Black Edition Panoramic
Yes. I had a new box fitted in Oct as a result of this recall, Audi covered the cost.
Recall - issued 02/09/2022
- Thread starter The_Ironist
- Start date
Hi guys, I’m new to the forum but I believe I have experienced some of the same issues highlighted.
Quick story:
I bought a 16 plate Audi s3 (automatic) in January 2022 with 1 previous owner and 21,000 miles.
I had no issues until November time when I started to get the infamous “Gearbox malfunction, continue to drive message” and the usual issues that followed;
At this point my car had 30,000 miles on the clock and I believed the error was due to an overdue oil change.
So in January 2023 I took it to my local Audi (Glasgow) and was advised that there was a recall for the hydraulic pump due to the potential of bolts becoming lose and wrecking the gearbox (apologies I’m not very technical).
I received a phone call the following day stating that they had completed the update which had been successful however the following error code appeared
P072C00 - Stuck in Gear 1
And I was advised by the service adviser that this did not fall under the recall and that Audi would need to do further investigation at a hefty price (£735 to be exact) to identify the issue however stated it would likely be a new gearbox required and they would not cover the cost.
Fast forward to today, I took my car to a DSG specialist in Glasgow (Caledonian Transmissions) and they completed a diagnostic check on the car and advised that there was error 2 codes appearing. The same one quoted by Audi and also
P0C2B00 - Auxiliary Transmission Fluid Pump Control Module - Feedback Signal.
I was informed by Caledonian that this is the error code which is caused by the loose bolts and they believed that the original error code quoted by Audi was caused by the 2nd Fault.
My plan is to phone Audi and advise them of my findings as I’m not happy that they are not covering this when it is clearly an issue with the Hydraulic/fluid pump which the recall was for.
If you guys have had a similar experience please feel free to reply or if you have any advice it would be greatly appreciated.
Quick story:
I bought a 16 plate Audi s3 (automatic) in January 2022 with 1 previous owner and 21,000 miles.
I had no issues until November time when I started to get the infamous “Gearbox malfunction, continue to drive message” and the usual issues that followed;
- Not going into odd gears
- Lagging
- Jolting when coming to a stop
At this point my car had 30,000 miles on the clock and I believed the error was due to an overdue oil change.
So in January 2023 I took it to my local Audi (Glasgow) and was advised that there was a recall for the hydraulic pump due to the potential of bolts becoming lose and wrecking the gearbox (apologies I’m not very technical).
I received a phone call the following day stating that they had completed the update which had been successful however the following error code appeared
P072C00 - Stuck in Gear 1
And I was advised by the service adviser that this did not fall under the recall and that Audi would need to do further investigation at a hefty price (£735 to be exact) to identify the issue however stated it would likely be a new gearbox required and they would not cover the cost.
Fast forward to today, I took my car to a DSG specialist in Glasgow (Caledonian Transmissions) and they completed a diagnostic check on the car and advised that there was error 2 codes appearing. The same one quoted by Audi and also
P0C2B00 - Auxiliary Transmission Fluid Pump Control Module - Feedback Signal.
I was informed by Caledonian that this is the error code which is caused by the loose bolts and they believed that the original error code quoted by Audi was caused by the 2nd Fault.
My plan is to phone Audi and advise them of my findings as I’m not happy that they are not covering this when it is clearly an issue with the Hydraulic/fluid pump which the recall was for.
If you guys have had a similar experience please feel free to reply or if you have any advice it would be greatly appreciated.
Attachments
Hi guys, I’m new to the forum but I believe I have experienced some of the same issues highlighted.
Quick story:
I bought a 16 plate Audi s3 (automatic) in January 2022 with 1 previous owner and 21,000 miles.
I had no issues until November time when I started to get the infamous “Gearbox malfunction, continue to drive message” and the usual issues that followed;
- Not going into odd gears
- Lagging
- Jolting when coming to a stop
At this point my car had 30,000 miles on the clock and I believed the error was due to an overdue oil change.
So in January 2023 I took it to my local Audi (Glasgow) and was advised that there was a recall for the hydraulic pump due to the potential of bolts becoming lose and wrecking the gearbox (apologies I’m not very technical).
I received a phone call the following day stating that they had completed the update which had been successful however the following error code appeared
P072C00 - Stuck in Gear 1
And I was advised by the service adviser that this did not fall under the recall and that Audi would need to do further investigation at a hefty price (£735 to be exact) to identify the issue however stated it would likely be a new gearbox required and they would not cover the cost.
Fast forward to today, I took my car to a DSG specialist in Glasgow (Caledonian Transmissions) and they completed a diagnostic check on the car and advised that there was error 2 codes appearing. The same one quoted by Audi and also
P0C2B00 - Auxiliary Transmission Fluid Pump Control Module - Feedback Signal.
I was informed by Caledonian that this is the error code which is caused by the loose bolts and they believed that the original error code quoted by Audi was caused by the 2nd Fault.
My plan is to phone Audi and advise them of my findings as I’m not happy that they are not covering this when it is clearly an issue with the Hydraulic/fluid pump which the recall was for.
If you guys have had a similar experience please feel free to reply or if you have any advice it would be greatly appreciated.
I had a perfectly fine operating DQ381, SKX on a 2017 S3 (30K miles).
Car is completely stock and well cared for.
After 34L4 software update was flashed onto the car (to reiterate...it ran and shifted perfectly fine before the 34L4 intervention; i do monthly VCDS scans and never seen any gearbox DTCs before), the gearbox malfunction light illuminated. Pulling a scan with the RossTech VCDS revealed code shown below, which is different than your reported code above. That's probably why the dealer advised you that there was some non-convergence with the factory campaign.
35494 - Control Circuit for Aux. Trans. Fluid Pump
P0C29 00 [047] - Implausible Signal
Also to mention... a decent scan tool, like the RossTech VCDS, would show you the time and date stamp of the DTC when it first occurred and the frequency of this condition being detected. I wonder if your code of "P072C00 - Stuck in Gear 1" had any of that information? if available, you maybe able use it in fyour advantage; to display its occurance immediately following the software update.
Furthermore, on a previous note/posting, #42, another member suggested "POC2900" being the relevant code for this specific factory campaign. They are trying to catch the internal manufacturing defect before it destroys the gearbox. I suspect, with an ailing auxiliary hydraulic pump, where the four bolts starts falling off, POC2900 is the indicator for an impending failure/gearbox catastrophe.
Post #42 below (by stubbly46)
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/recall-issued-02-09-2022.436058/post-3777223
Also, wanted to mention that your chances of getting anywhere with Audi UK Customer Services is very slim. I spoke to them and it appears they don't have any visibility to any of this and very unhelpful. In my experience, it is just an answering service which has no authority and only to direct you to an "Audi Service Center"
I'd suggest you compile all paperwork and history and take it back to the dealership nd ask them to escalate it to "Audi-Technical" or request a booking with a regional Audi Filed Service Engineer [FSE]. Heads up, this is likely going to be a lengthy process.
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As i continue to learn about this situation, here is something new to me...
There is a repair kit for the Auxiliary Hydraulic Pump. see link below.
https://www.automaticchoice.com/en-gb/0gc-rep01
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There is a repair kit for the Auxiliary Hydraulic Pump. see link below.
https://www.automaticchoice.com/en-gb/0gc-rep01
The offending manufacturing defect, auxiliary hydraulic fluid pump, sits deep inside the gearbox. The replacement process is very involved; lots of special tools needed and good technician skillset necessary. It is definitely a transmission out job and tear down... Mechatronic removed, dual clutch removed; the casing is separated and all internals are exposed.
The only upside is that internal DSG filter is renewed, new DSG oil filled and external oil filter too.
As you can see above, in the repair kit photos, lots of seals and circlips are to be removed and replaced for the job.
Immediately outside the pump, on the casing, there is an electrical motor. But's that's about it... the electrical motor is serviceable from outside, but not the offending part.
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see DSG image below for the red circled area. An electric motor is placed outside and drives the the auxiliary hydraulic fluid pump.
This electric motor is bolted to the outside of the clutch housing. It can be replaced without opening the Transmission. Unfortunately, not the case with the auxiliary hydraulic fluid pump...
This electric motor is bolted to the outside of the clutch housing. It can be replaced without opening the Transmission. Unfortunately, not the case with the auxiliary hydraulic fluid pump...
One more note on this situation... For anyone willing to tackle this situation on heir own (and perhaps wanting to avoid the TCU update, but seeking peace of mind around their DSG gearbox not self destroying), the repair kit is around 400 GBP. Furthermore you'll need lots of DSG oil which is expensive.
BUT, there is massive labor involved and definite need for DSG special tools. Factory repair manual doesn't even delve into opening the DSG gearbox. I'm sure there are specialist instructions being fed to the dealer network, but not available on Audi erWin.
I purchased erWin access to wrap my head around the procedure, but that proved to be a waste of money. See below; no intervention into the guts of DSG is documented there.
If anyone is going to tackle this on their own, i would love to hear from them and i strongly suggest applying thread-lock onto the four black bolts on the auxiliary hydraulic pump; i wouldn't trust the new pump bolts that come installed on the new pump.
BUT, there is massive labor involved and definite need for DSG special tools. Factory repair manual doesn't even delve into opening the DSG gearbox. I'm sure there are specialist instructions being fed to the dealer network, but not available on Audi erWin.
I purchased erWin access to wrap my head around the procedure, but that proved to be a waste of money. See below; no intervention into the guts of DSG is documented there.
If anyone is going to tackle this on their own, i would love to hear from them and i strongly suggest applying thread-lock onto the four black bolts on the auxiliary hydraulic pump; i wouldn't trust the new pump bolts that come installed on the new pump.
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My 34L4 related hydraulic pump replacement repair is taking unnecessarily long. It will hopefully be completed next week.
In talking to one of the service advisors, he said to bring the spare key for reprogramming; he thinks a DSG flash wipes out the key synch.
I know there is the concept of the holy VIN triangle of ABS, ECU and instrument cluster must all share a common VIN, but never heard of this gearbox-key relation. Anybody?
In talking to one of the service advisors, he said to bring the spare key for reprogramming; he thinks a DSG flash wipes out the key synch.
I know there is the concept of the holy VIN triangle of ABS, ECU and instrument cluster must all share a common VIN, but never heard of this gearbox-key relation. Anybody?
VeteranRich
2017 S3 Saloon Black Edition Panoramic
Yes, I had to take the spare key in to be reprogrammed, it wouldn't work after the new gearbox was fitted
Thanks. I wonder about the workings of this situation now; why would gearbox install cause keys to be reprogrammed? I knew about key programming need for Instrument cluster replacements, but so strange to hear the same for the gearbox change.
Also, in my case they are repairing the gearbox, not replacing it; it received the updated part/service kit and the associated software update/TCU flash. I'll still take my spare key with me when i go to collect the car.
Also, in my case they are repairing the gearbox, not replacing it; it received the updated part/service kit and the associated software update/TCU flash. I'll still take my spare key with me when i go to collect the car.
Just tried my key after reading this and it works perfectly. Only had the software updated and car tested, no faults found.
I bought my S3 few weeks ago and got the recall done as a part of the pre-delivery inspection.
I have checked my previous A3 on this website (https://audicheck.ie/) and it shows that it needs to be taken to Audi for an update, while GOV website shows no recalls. I've never had any messages from Audi about the recall, found out about it on this forum.
I have checked my previous A3 on this website (https://audicheck.ie/) and it shows that it needs to be taken to Audi for an update, while GOV website shows no recalls. I've never had any messages from Audi about the recall, found out about it on this forum.
Has anyone who had their ECU and TCU mapped took their cars in for this recall?
What was the outcome?
I presume the TCU map would definitely be overwritten?
What was the outcome?
I presume the TCU map would definitely be overwritten?
Seem like you're not getting a direct answer. While my car is completely stock and i'm not really the intended person to answer your question, I've learned more than i wanted on the 34L4 by observing the the open guts of the transmission in the workshop and talking to techs and tracing part numbers and keeping track of control channel maps before and after the factory Campaign on the DSG.
The TCU/Mechatronic flash counter definitely rolled up; yes, i'm sure your TCU tune will be overwritten.
If that's an issue, i recommend avoiding the dealership, but finding an independent garage to remove and strip down the transmission. You'd need to split the case in half to access the auxiliary hydraulic pump cover. There are four black bolts on the cover; those need to be re tightened with threadlocker. I'd use red/strong threadlocker.
The benefit out of such expense and headache would be peace of mind that your transmission didn't blow up a hole in the casing and you get a chance to replace the dual clutch with something performance oriented.
0GC-398-008-D contains everything you need for the tear down, reinstall. it even includes a new pump (hopefully with threadlock secured cover bolts)
Also, check this out for DQ381 basics and tuning (caution: it is lengthy!)
https://ecutek.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/SUPPORT/pages/1702953321/VW+AG+DQ381+Transmission+tuning
https://ecutek.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/SUPPORT/pages/1702953321/VW+AG+DQ381+Transmission+tuning
Quite a good read, although I feel like most of it went over my heard but gives a good guide on how the whole gearbox works
About fifteen years ago VAG and Ford (which included Volvo at the time) were producing specs to effectively encrypt/pair major ECUs in a vehicle to each other, partly as an anti-theft measure but also to prevent mapping. Engine ECU, Transmission, instrument cluster, ABS/(Body control) and Infotainment were all part of that strategy. I no longer work in automotive, but given that people still get their cars mapped, I assume it was never fully implemented or the chipping companies have continued to get memory maps from software engineers who were keen on making a fast buck.
Thanks for your insight from your past work.
The public masses are an innovative bunch and the circle of security had flaws which were exploited. Whilst Component Protection was implemented along with security access and encrypted ECUs, there are so many companies providing modules that were a bit of a black box rather than holistic architecture that no one could see the whole security picture: car companies are experts in building cars but less so as software architects - except maybe Tesla but they aren’t the best at building cars.
The public masses are an innovative bunch and the circle of security had flaws which were exploited. Whilst Component Protection was implemented along with security access and encrypted ECUs, there are so many companies providing modules that were a bit of a black box rather than holistic architecture that no one could see the whole security picture: car companies are experts in building cars but less so as software architects - except maybe Tesla but they aren’t the best at building cars.
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Few questions, were you in warranty? did you buy direct from Audi? How did you go about the complaint.
Think i've got same issue as you! Gearbox completely gone!
@VeteranRich was yours out of warranty? did you take directly to Audi or somewhere else and was your gearbox still working for had it failed ?
Thanks in advance
My 2017 stock standard S3 DSG had a gearbox malfunction error message. It’s covered just 14,500 miles from new in 2017. No contact from Audi about the ‘recall’. I took it to my Audi dealer to have it diagnosed. They came back with ‘there’s an error and you need a news gearbox’ and quoted over £11k. I’ve spent the last 3 weeks complaining to Audi UK. They eventually agreed to pay 50%, but 50% of £11k is still a huge amount to pay for a gearbox that should not have failed. I’ve lodged a complaint to the Motor Ombudsman (I know it’ll take ages to get a response!). Maybe a few more of those with the same issue could do the same ? Audi seem to have no interest in understanding the problem, or the scale of it, the dealer says the old gearbox will be scrapped. Any advice welcome. Thank you.
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After discovering the issues I'll 100% be taking it as far as I can including the Motor Ombudsman. I've submitted a complaint to Audi UK.
My car is currently at an independent mechanic (automatic gearbox specialist) ... I don't know now whether I should take it directly to Audi instead?
I talked to an independent this morning, they were very helpful, but after I gave them the Diagnostic code, they said it would need a new control box which would cost £3k + VAT and that excludes any additional work that might to be done eg clutches, bearings etc so I figured I’d go with the dealer and get a full new box with 2 year warranty. Neither option is very palatable.
Just took mine in for the recall, hopefully nothing pops up. Does anyone know what the chance are of the issue actually happening? I've had mine since new and covered 72k miles and not had a single problem (as of yet).
Yep any cost is certainly not nice!!
Not sure, but for reference mine had done 50k, and the last 15k that i owned it I had zero gearbox issues i.e never once felt anything wrong with it, until randomly last week it felt like it was about to stall in the morning twice, then was fine for another 20 mins and then gearbox went completely.
Was it serviced regularly? I've been taking it to Audi with the oil services on the dot. Hopefully mine doesn't fail.
Can you detail the issue:
Stuck in gear?
Stuck in neutral / lost drive?
Physically exploded /cracked?
Warning to stop immediately?
This campaign / recall is for a specific fault with a specific build date range of gearboxes. If the fault with your gearbox is something other than the auxiliary pump failure then it’s probably not related to this campaign.
I've just called Audi and got confirmation that my car does fall under the recall ... so sounding like the issue the recall was looking to prevent has happened to me.
Issue - Car cannot go into drive, it does for a second, but then fault pops up warning to stop immediately and it wont drive/cuts out.
Well too my car in for the recall and the engineers saw it was mapped so it wouldn’t fall under their warranty. The guy did say one thing which raised some eyebrows that the software update they put in the car increases the oil pressure and forces the pump to fail.
It doesn’t necessarily force the pump to fail but uses increased pressure (and better diagnostics) to work out if the auxiliary pump is likely to fail due to loose bolts and give a warning before it does.
This is something that I have an issue with. Mapped or not this is actually a recall as opposed to an issue arising whilst in a warranty period. Bolts backing out on a cover within the gearbox is not something that is directly affected by mapping or upgrades. It is however a fault either by design or an issue that has occurred during the assembly process and should be honoured.
The other side of the argument is the gearbox wouldn’t have broke if you didn’t put the extra strain on it by tuning it.
I’m just playing devils advocate not having a dig.
also I think this is a campaign not a safety recall so they don’t have any obligation as such if it blows up.
