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RANT: Use of non genuine diagnostic tools and running before walking with them!

@udi A3 Dec 5, 2013

  1. @udi A3

    @udi A3 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    I just want to share, even though it is vw related, same applies.

    A guy with a copy of vag tacho and vcds, neither genuine, who has done a few eeprom edits to add miles to empty and lit needles on a mk4 golf, decided to offer help to a guy wanting a cluster upgrade. Just like our older A3s, a new cluster will give added features including the addition of a half or full DIS. Quite an easy job and fully documented on rosstechs website.

    So, a clone vag tacho tool is only good sometimes for reading the eeproms and obtaining SKC codes. I would never advise writing with these tools. When things go wrong there is no support.
    Clone of vcds, same applies. When things go wrong rosstech will help and advise if you have a genuine tool.

    I have never used a clone VCDS, and never had an issue of it failing. I have used a clone vag tacho, its very hit and miss compared to genuine.

    Anyway, the mk4 golf drove to this guys house fine, and just wanted to have the cluster swapped. 6 hours later the car wouldnt start. Next day the guy with the tools ordered some new transponders. God knows why, just shows incompetence IMO.
    Three days later customers car still immobile on the driveway.

    I have been able to assist in getting the car mobile, and i will be coding it correctly in the near future. I just wanted to share this to warn others of the dangers of using counterfeit tools on other peoples cars with no support or knowledge for when things go wrong.

    This is also why only genuine VCDS users appear on the map on this forum.

    Lets hope this prevents others being inconvenienced.
     
    bearthebruce, Sandra and Audi Dynamik like this.
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  3. craigynett

    craigynett Guest

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    i bet a lot of professionals have started off with non genuine to build up some cash to buy genuine!

    I personally don't mind people using clone equipment on theirs or other peoples cars. It gives me more work when they ****** something up! :)
     
  4. pablo

    pablo Registered User

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    whats the view like from up there on that horse lol?

    to be fair it sounds more like incompetence in the operator than bad tools. And the car owner was being cheap trying to avoid paying someone to do the job properly. Id only get someone well recommended to do something like a cluster/ecu swap I wouldnt attempt it myself. Some light coding, sure, but nothing that could kill the car!
     
  5. craigynett

    craigynett Guest

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    it's all right up here thanks

    it is usually down to user error. Although if they were using genuine equipment they would've had some kind of tech support whether it be by phone or by email. With clone equipment you don't get that but that doesn't matter to the majority of DIY'ers because they're not prepared to pay what genuine equipment costs. Even for something like VCDS which is only about £260. Most would still rather buy a £15 cable. Genuine Vagtacho isn't that expensive neither IMHO
     
  6. pablo

    pablo Registered User

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    Id agree if someone is doing work for others then its a no brainer as it can leave you with a big bill for messing up someones car. But for the odd job on your own car its a lot of money. Ive a cheapo cable that I use for fault scanning and maybe some light coding but would pay someone else to do keys/cluster type stuff.
     
  7. craigynett

    craigynett Guest

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    the % that ****** things up compared to those that doesn't is very small. Most people just stick to scans & a little bit of simple coding coding like you said.

    keys are a straight forward process on earlier models & can be easily done with Vagtacho & VCDS. Although to be fair it's not that difficult with the new models that use Component Security & pre-coding if you have the correct kit. The main difference being that the equipment to do pre-code the newer models keys costs a hell of a lot more & i'm pretty sure there isn't a £15 clone cable capable of doing it
     
  8. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    Makes me laugh that people won't spend the £260 on a genuine Ross-tech cable for looking after something that is most peoples second most expensive purchase, yet i bet some of these people would think nothing on spending a small fortune on a night on the beer !!

    It's the unfortunate people who buy these cars after they've been messed about with cheap parts/fixes i feel sorry for.
     
    A3Kent and Sandra like this.
  9. pablo

    pablo Registered User

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    wish Id your money :p
     
  10. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    Ermm, its not about 'having money' i earn a living same as everyone else on here.

    I wanted to buy the cable (a genuine Ross-tech one) so i thought ****** it, saved for a few weeks then bought it, i do the same with everything i purchase, rather have something to show for my money that is genuine.

    It has seen me through 4 VAG group cars already, so in my eyes its a worthwhile purchase as a tool, like a decent socket set or Trolley jack.
     
  11. @udi A3

    @udi A3 Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    Fixed a dead 2009 a3 audi cluster a week or so ago. Somebody had tried to clock the milage with a 50 quid super vag tool. Left the car immobile for three days. I suppose that was good for me, but id rather the clones were not used, and the gurus behind the good genuine tools get more sale revenue to encourage continued support. Still, as craig says, money in my pocket is all good. Buying clones is just piracy.
     
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  13. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    I do agree with some of the sentiment regarding buying tools and supporting people such as Ross-Tech.
    There is a lot of time, effort and money goes into creating and supporting the product. The money really isn't in the hardware it's the software that is where all the work is. The fact that you can purchase a clone lead for less than £15 proves this.
    As somebody who wants to work on their own car and dabble, I cannot really justify spending £250 on a proper lead, I just wouldn't get the use out of it. I would rather Ross tech used a credit type sytem where the lead is cheap to buy in the first place and evrytime the lead is used to make changes points are used up on peoples credit.
    That way for the occasional user you wouldn't have such an expensive outlay. A professional user would obviously end up paying more but then every time they are using the lead they are making money.
    The reason I first bought a VW was because of VAG-COM. I have always maintained , serviced my own cars for the last 30 years, and 10 years ago I had to take a Vectra to the dealers to get an airbag issue sorted, Only the second time I have ever used a garage and it grieved me.
    When it came time for the Vectra to go I switched to VAG cars because I could buy a cheap lead to do diagnostics. I would like to support Ross Tech but not to the tune of £250
    On an aside i have been asked to do things on peoples cars and because I have not felt comfortable doing it I have declined. A case in point was a Golf where the guy wanted the cluster configuring for miles to empty and the dial illumination changing. Although these kind of mods are well documented I know it is quite easy to screw up the cluster and end up with a dead car.

    Karl.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  14. adamss24

    adamss24 Registered User

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    The thing is when you use expensive tools you charge accordingly, however folk want things done on the cheap ! There will always be opportunists out there who will start by buying cheap leads and when they need a tool that works well "first time every time" then they will buy the expensive option. I too started as an enthusiast and used cheap tools on 10-15 years old cars, however when you start working on newer cars things change especially as the old tools don't work anymore ! I have friends that work in the business that use 20k machines to do clocks, mileage, tuning and so on ! One would not learn how to fix if you don't break it first !
     
  15. rum4mo

    rum4mo Registered User

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    I first bought my first (new) VAG car 13.5 years ago, bought VAG COM within 6 months, a proper licensed version, used it immediately to switch on the brake wear and low washer fluid warnings that the local VW place said could only be done by buying a new instrument set (car was imported from NL so said to be "built with completely different parts, ie not UK made parts" - what a laugh, used so far on 5 of my family cars, upgraded to VCDS when support for VAG COM stopped, also used on friends VAG products and non VAG friends cars. I must confess to also buying probably a clone vagtacho - but common sense has made me leave that as a wasted buy - it was only to retrieve security codes to prepare a couple of spare keys, one of which the car has been sold on so never used and the other is for a car that will probably get sold on within the year.
     
  16. Brodster

    Brodster Registered User

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    I think someone would have to be either plain stupid or have balls the size of melons to even advertise the fact that they had a clone tool on this forum as everyone is well aware of the problems they pose and to leave this guys car immobilized for 3 days.....I would of used his car
     

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