Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

a totally amazing project track car, just imagine what you could achieve if you had a quattro. you must be overjoyed.

so you have race cams for crazy high rev power and essentially hybrid big turbo for less lag. amazing setup
I think if it was destined to be a Quattro, it would have been done a long time ago, or even would have begun with a Quattro model as a base

Just goes to show you how much setup comes into play when you are building a track car - you don't need Quattro to make a quick car, you need the right setup and a driver that can exploit that

Kudos to you Prawn and BigAl, this car is testament to all your hard work - well done!

Sent from my H3213 using Tapatalk
 
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I thought it was originally FWD for legislation for races wasn't it - Pretty sure Prawn has implied himself that it is torque limited to avoid wheel spin, it is an amazing / frightening setup.
 
Cheers guys :)

Stuart, as Mr Singh says its very
definitely FWD through choice at this point.

Whilst it's great for a road car, I just don't think the haldex 4wd system is much good for track work.
I've driven haldex cars on track and it's just not for me. It's all down to personal preference of course, some people love it.

Torque is held back slightly due to fwd traction, but we're still talking about ~400lbft on your average dyno, so it's not shy at all.

To me the lighter weight fwd is just more exciting to drive and more nimble. I don't expect there to be any traction issues once we're up and running with the widebody and 265 slicks!
 
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I think the audi haldex system is renound for understeer, even the ttqs. So you're probably right.
 
The Haldex system doesn't create understeer the suspension setup and settings on the standard cars creates understeer. That's the way most cars come from the factory as it's a safer setup. A tyre can only provide so much grip and if you use all of that for traction when accelerating out of a corner then the car will understeer, send 50% of that power to the rear the front tyres will have more grip available to turn the car so less understeer.
 
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Thruxton: YES!

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:racer:
 
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From the FB post I gather its now a rocketship that sticks like glue with the new suspension set up?
 
Hi, rocket ship, yes ,with no doubt.

Interesting day for me, I will give my thoughts and Nicholas can give his later when he has time.

Firstly I had not sat in this car for 16 months, so hardly knew what it looked like let alone drive.

Nicholas has done an amazing job building this, from the engine, brakes, suspension and lots of other things. As anyone on this forum knows the small things add up at an amazing rate. (££££££££).

The day came and we looked forward with hope in our hearts. I did not drive initially, but rode shotgun. First runs very interesting and did not disappoint. Nicholas was not pushing the car, new car, new track. Lunchtime approached and the speeds went up, and up, and up. What a car and what a track. Then I heard, come on Big Bad Dad you take it round, and so I did. Hell, what a missile. I had three 15 min sessions before lunch and really liked this strange, (new to us) but amazing track. FAST, oh hell yes, corners that go on and on and on. Cambers against you, and incredible speeds possible, then a chicane at the end which is nasty and so tight. The most tight I have every seen.

After lunch I asked Nicholas if he had tried high boost and he said yes. We looked at the setting and no, he had not.

High boost employed and a whole new dimension came to us. UP went the speeds , and Nige and Nicholas went head to head. Interesting.!!!. Then it was my turn on high boost.

I was not looking forward to high boost. In its present form I thought high boost would be frightening. No.
Delivery was impeccable, smooth and progressive without any harshness or spikes.

Engine does not like low revs, but once 4k comes in, it starts to go ballistic. I did not push to 8k. I was far more interested in keeping the car on track and not the grass.

An interesting fact is the wheels were OZ x8 and the tyres were 225 front and 210 rear AND they were 12 year old slicks we bought for £70, just for the day. What an amazing grip the car had bearing in mind that fact.

When Rimstock come up with the 10 inch rims and we can deploy our Dunlop 265 fives, another completely new field will be opened up to us.

What a day and what a car. AND what a driver my son is.

Having heaped praise on the previous subjects, I must now heap loads and loads of praise upon our all time favourite race car builder and tuner. The ONE and only ONE. Badger Bill from Glow Ces Ter Shire. Bill helped with scimming, , balancing, (impecable) supply of hardware, advice and all manner of small but important aspects of building a race engine.

All of the previous do not matter a jot without tuning. That is where the secret to our engine lies. The mapping is extraordinary . The delivery is so smooth you forget its pushing something in the region of 470/480 brake. No nasty spikes or surges, just absolute progressive power. AMAZING. Over and out. Big Al. A very proud dad.
 
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Your eyes are watering again.

By the way how did you fit into Oliver's baby 5 point harness
 
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Nicholas has done an amazing job building this, from the engine, brakes, suspension and lots of other things. As anyone on this forum knows the small things add up at an amazing rate.

What a day and what a car. AND what a driver my son is.

Thanks Big Bad Dad. I couldn't have done any of it without you. You taught me everything I know!
 
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I would have responded earlier but could not find my handkerchief .

By the way how did you fit into Oliver's baby 5 point harness???. Silly question. Crash diet of course.

I have heaped praise on two people but forgot to mention another VIP. The one and only TUFFTY, whose knowledge is quite extraordinary. Thankyou very much for your input.

The next trackday cannot come soon enough.
 
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Thanks Big Bad Dad. I couldn't have done any of it without you. You taught me everything I know![/QUOTE.

Thankyou for those nice words but not entirely true. Nice anyway but your knowledge is quite extraordinay too.

Buying that MOT failure Mini when you were Ten, to practice on, was worthwhile. Just look where it has led. We must not forget your first Grass Tack race at the age of Eleven where you took home second and third place cups much to the annoyance of other experienced drivers and their parents.
 
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Lots of love flying in here over the past 24hrs, great to see it all come together and very fitting given it was a real team effort.


Oh so THAT'S why Nick hasn't had any competitive track time recently - he quit while he was ahead!

If it's any consolation, I'm sure you could still best the 10 year olds now too :tearsofjoy:
 
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Thruxton: YES!

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:racer:

Its always a good day out when team Prawn is out on mass, great to see everyone as usual!! 3 Generations!! How cools is that!!

36087731_10156396854943788_6847053407497224192_n by Richard Beale, on Flickr

Car was brilliant, the driver needs recalibrating to the new realms of possibilities. You can tell from the passenger seat this wasn't and incremental change this really is merely a rolling shell of its former self turned up to volume 15.

Best of all it ran all day in 30c+ heat and gave all the seat time you could want. Which must be rewarding after all the spannering time!

I went out with Nick early on, and should of gone out again later but for me the engine was not the stand out feature probably being a fast track it didn't show case it. The new suspension and brakes were, and Nick barely even pushed the pedal. The level of body control this thing now has over the old setup is night and day. I think I can compare fairly as last trip out for me was at goodwood. Lateral grip can be made full use of with the composure the car now carries, all the way up to the bend where your hanging in your 6 points wondering why it hasn't locked up.
Engine feels like it always did to me, bar a little bit lagier and clearly a lot stronger. Thumbs up to the mapping :thumbs up:. I'm not sure you could pass it off as feeling NA but its very progressive and usable, no wild torque steer or wheel spin when the boost comes in.
Oh and the diff..... Cant quite get my head round using more throttle to stop the front washing but it works.


I'm booked in for when its on proper man rubber, so we can see how those brakes really work!
 
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Its always a good day out when team Prawn is out on mass, great to see everyone as usual!! 3 Generations!! How cools is that!!

+some really nice stuff


Batmo(Beal)!

Absolute pleasure to take you out again mate. It's been FAAAAAAAR too long.

Thanks for the kind words mate. It was such an odd experience. Having been out of the seat for so long it's hard to calibrate, so hard to work if you're doing a decent job or not without anything to compare to! Driving round. Feeling OK, but not really knowing if I'm right in the pace or miles off it.

As it happens, we wernt too bad at all! And your words of encouragement really helped me get my act together too :racer:

I think it was good to test the car on narrower rubber, to get a feel for how it moves around and how it feels, but I definitely felt that I was limited by ultimate traction now with the capability of the brakes and suspension.

I think we're in a good position to swap to the 265s, and I think it be a decent step change in performance again once we do.

Ive also got a few small things planned to do in the mean time :racer:
 
So, Thruxton!

I was going to wait until i had a few videos uploaded before posting about the day, but a certain small human woke up at 0423 this morning, so here I am!

Preparation for the day was enjoyingly minimal.

I'd made the new centre section for the exhaust, and I had been planning to try and fit the front arches and 265s, but as the day approached, I realised that what I had was a fully working car, and it just didn't seem sensible to put that in jeopardy my trying to make the enormous wheels fit with zero chance to test before hand.

For the first time in a long time, I decided not to over commit and cause myself more stress, and decided to run the car as it was!

We had the 8j ozs, which I'd shod with some VERY cheap slicks.
A pair of 240 hankook fronts which actually measure in at 224mm, and a pair of seat sport Dunlop 210s on the rear. All around 10-12 years old :laugh: probably far from ideal, but the day wasn't about getting an ultimate lap time, it was about testing the car and seeing what worked and more importantly, what didn't!

So, with the above in mind, preparation was basically a tank of fuel, and a trip to he local hand car wash!

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7am came on Monday morning and we set off on the delightfully short 25 minute drive to Thruxton. We loaded the BMW up with tools and spares and left the a3 empty to give ourselves as few tasks as possible when we arrived... We arrived and found ourselves a space next to Nige, and off I went for sound testing:

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As I sat there in the que I felt quite nervous.
Thruxton had a VERY low sound limit at just 90dBa on the static test. We had always been low 90s on the old setup, and I'd tested the new (single box) system at 94dBa before adding the centre section.

Wr revved the car up to 4500rpm, and I was delighted to get a reading of just 83 dBA!

I do think the testers at Thruxton read low, as I am sure it's louder than that, but it's certainly not something I'm about to complain about!

With the sound test done we went to the briefing then set about changing the wheels over to slicks for the day:

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I'd never actually fitted these ozs before with tyres, so I was really pleased to see it sat so nicely on them. I thought it looked great.
 
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We set off on the sighting laps, and it was immediately apparent that this was a pretty daunting place!

I've been visiting Thruxton for years as a spectator, first coming here in 1998 to watch btcc aged just 12, but due to the location of the track you can only see a small amount as a spectator.

Up through Allard and into the complex was all pretty familiar, but as soon as we exited Segrave approaching Noble it was all very unknown ground!

Unlike most tracks, there were no marking boards. No reference points for braking, and through Noble, goodwood, and church you don't brake on entry at all which feels pretty scary given the high speeds involved.

The car felt good. Temps all seemed well. We started off just in wastegate pressure, and even at that the track felt fast!

The track went green and I went out for another session slowly building speed, getting a feel for the car and track.

One of the first things I noticed was how insane the brakes felt.
Pedal feel was good and short with decent feedback, which is something I'd been really worried about so very happy about that.

One thing I did note is that the pedal feel is now so good I need to remove the 10mm pedal spacer I installed years ago to bring the brake pedal slightly lower again. This should sit it at a better height for heel n toe.

I had set it up previously, but I'd under estimated quite how little pedal pressure these big APs would need to produce insane stopping power.


Building speed and things felt OK. I say OK rather than good, because after so long out of the seat I genuinely had no idea if we were going well or not! It's been such a long time that I'd somehow lost all reference for how things should feel. It all felt incredibly comfortable and composed, so if I'm honest I was thinking I was probably going far too slow!


Back into the pits again and a quick check on tyre temps. Outside front had gone from 26-34 psi, with the other 3 all hovering around 32 psi. I dropped them all to 30 hot and Dad jumped in for a drive.

As he said above, dad hadn't driven the car at all in well over a year, so heading out onto a live Thruxton circuit for the first time must have been pretty daunting!

Dad did great though, building up the speed gently (less of a hooligan than days gone by :laugh:) and getting a feel for the car again. It was great to be out in the car together again. After so much time and hard work I think we both needed it to go smoothly!

Back in for a quick swap over and @Rich196 jumped in for a session.

Which Rich on board I was able to get a better idea of what was working and what wasn't. Watching his face as we approached the chicane at a round 140 mph soon told me I was braking reasonably late, as rich seemed to look increasingly concerned the chicane drew closer and I was still flat on the power.

Throwing out the land anchors (brakes :laugh:) have pleasing results as the Hankook slicks did their thing and the speed dropped rapidly to around 60 mph before turning into the chicane.

Entering the chicane most laps in purposefully took more kerb than anyone really needs. Not because it was the fastest way, but for that half a second as the car rides up onto 2 wheels before darting the other way, you really can pretend your a BTCC driver :racer:

Unlike previous 2 wheel adventures, the 3j plate diff did its thing and kept drive going to the planted wheel and maintained forward propulsion. In the atb days as soon as you lifted a wheel the atb would spin that power away.

Around the back of the track, through Noble, Goodwood, and Church, Rich commented that the new suspension felt really well composed. Gone was the body roll and the dive under braking, and the car now sat flat and stable, whilst still remaining incredibly compliant. It's safe to say these Gaz Golds are a massive step up from the kW v3 for track work.

Back into the pits for a quick check over, and I opened the bonnet to be greeted by the joyous small and sight of oil!

Argh! Not cool.
 
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So, it turns out I'd left the tap on my catch can in the open position :laugh:

That, coupled with the fact that I had completely forgotten where the oil level should be, has resulted in the car throwing half a pint of pure Fuchs Titan out of the breather and into the can, which promptly started dripping from the tap!

Thinking back to the good old days, I remembered that the car always used to find its own oil level, a few mm below the max mark on the dipstick. This was because under hard braking, the sump baffle can only catch a certain amount of oil, and any excess shoots over the baffle and up and out of the breathers. I believe that's what was occurring here as we didn't have any more trouble all day from it.

We carried on lapping, and the car remained flawless. Dad had another session and built up some more pace, learning the car and track as he went. We left the car on on gate pressure for Dad in the morning. And at around 300bhp I think he was very pleasantly surprised at just how take and easy to drive it is.

I'd been running at 18psi for most of the morning after the first couple of sessions, and to be honest that felt like plenty for now.

18psi gave me enough straight line pace to match most things on the day, without being aggressive at all and certainly not troubling the slicks for traction. The progressive way the boost comes in makes it so easy to drive. I'm sure with the bigger slicks it'll be a similar case even with the boost cranked up further!

In clean air temps seems to run nicely. Coolant peaked just below 100 degrees and oil seemed to sit at around 115. Following other cars closely these crept up to a peak of 113 and 128, so I've got a little work to do on air flow, but given it was the hottest day of the year so far I am still VERY happy with how it all went.
 
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Around mid morning Malc and Andy popped up from work to come and say hello.
Andy is obviously used to trackdays and we've done loads together, but for Malc it was a whole new experience. He just couldn't get his head around the fact that this paddock full of tatty hatchbacks and old BMWs could possibly be quicker than his Continental GT :laugh:

I took Andy out for a session and had a really enjoyable few laps. Things were really starting to click with the car again and pace was getting better each session. We had one minor moment going around some traffic on the outside of Goodwood. As soon as you go off line the marbles get really bad really fast, and at around 100 mph we felt all 4 wheels lose grip and the car started to wonder towards the grass. I kept my nerve and didn't back off (which would result in instant fail!) and we ran the car right to the edge of the outside kerb before regaining full grip and nailing it down towards church. It was one of those moments where we just glanced at each other afterwards, knowingly :laugh:

We had a few more flying laps, then in exiting church in suddenly got a bad miss fire. Oh christ I thought!

Looking down, it turns out we'd been having so much fun we'd used an entire tank of fuel by 1130 and the miss fire was due to a lack of fuel after going round the long right hander of Goodwood at 100mph followed by Church, another right hander at about 115. Safe to say ALLLL the remaining fuel would be on the far left of the tank, and the pick up and pump are on the right. Mystery solved.

We came back in, and to my delight Victoria had arrived with mum and small person too. A proper family day out!

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Everyone had a cuddle with Oliver, who was feeling very confused in a new place, with many new faces, and 3 degree heat, so that explains why he was a little less smiley than usual!

@Rich196 last saw Oliver at Thruxton last year. I think he's now 4x the weight he was in May last year :laugh:

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Rather than pounding out as many laps as humanly possible in the 30 degree heat, we decided to be sociable and called time on the morning nice and early and made out way to the new Thruxton center for lunch before the ques started!
 
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Bet your glad you fitted the larger oil cooler with temps hitting 128. I know that's probably a worse case scenario with a very unusual hot summers day and a track that's got so much flat out driving. I am very impressed with the Gaz Gold suspension too, not that I have anything to compare it against but considering the spring rates and how hard I expected the ride to be it's not really that bad.
 
Another amazing write up. For your amazing car.

So what modifications have you decided you need now? If you say "nothing" you surely haven't been pushing hard enough? :)

Will you just leave your car "as is" for every track or do you alter butts and pieces and the map depending on circuit and conditions?
 
Cheers for the replies guys :)

Stuart, whilst the car was great you always come away from these things with a list of things that could be improved :racer:

I'm off out for lunch now. Will update later and hopefully get some vids up!

:racer:
 
Sometimes on a trackday you find yourself seeing the same 10-15 cars over and over again.
You tend to get 'in sync' with other cars on a similar lapping routine to you, as often you don't see some other cars out on track.

Nige and I had this in the morning, and our paths didn't cross once!

We decided to fix that after lunch and purposefully headed out together.

What followed was one of the most enjoyable sessions. Being pretty rusty and out of practise, I decided not to follow Nige TOO closely. His car was looking very twitchy and I wasn't aware quite how comfortable he was with it or I'd have followed a lot closer!

It was a most bizzare session, and one of the first times I've really felt the effects of an aerodynamic tow.

Following Nige I was pretty comfy on part throttle at times, and if I honest expected to pull a gap when we swapped places.

I reality when we swapped I couldn't get away at all! Where I'd been able to follow him, knowing I had pace in reserve, suddenly he was right on my bumper and I couldn't get away, so he was probably thinking the same thing!

Onboard from the A3 here:



Unfortunately Nige's camera mount had come loose, so the footage from the golf is pretty wobbly, but for anyone not partial to migraines can watch it here :laugh:



Unfortunately I didn't put up the best display after we swapped round. I'd gotten everything pretty hot following Nige and as soon as I had the space to try and push on in found myself going wide a bit and missing apexes as the front tyres just didn't want to give any more!

I really liked seeing the car from behind whilst in track. The biggest thing that stood out for me was just how stable it looked! It looked a composed the whole time. No understeer, no over steer, and minima body roll.

Thinking on it more, I don't remember a single time during the day where I felt it was under steering, or over steering for that matter!

Balance wise, I think it actually felt about perfect. If anything I'd gladly have the rear end a little more adventurous, but that's easily achieved by stiffening the rear shocks. To get a base line from the car I ran the Gaz Golds at 10 clicks front and rear all day. We didn't want to get into a test scenario tweaking things all day. Thruxton was about seat time and actually starting to enjoy the car again!

After the session with Nige Dad jumped in for another drive. We decided to run it at 18psi this time for Dad so he could get a feel for it at 400bhp :racer:

We had a really good session and dad picked up some good speed! I think he was pleasantly surprised at just how manageable it is still at this mid boost level. It's ****** fast, but not a handful at all, it's really very good to drive!

After Dad's session I jumped back in for he more session with Matt as passenger.
We set off behind Nige going to recreate more laps like we had earlier, but it was pretty clear as soon as we reached the complex that the front tyres were going to cut this one short. The car just didn't want to turn in like it had been, and given the abuse I don't really blame it :laugh:

We approached the last chicane on our out lap, I hit the brakes cautiously and we started to slow, but right at the end of braking, the front tyres decided that was enough and that the grass looked better, so we went on a little detour!

No harm done, and I'll upload a little video of the excursion later on, but I realised that this was probably a good time to call it a day. We did 1 more lap to make are a felt OK still, and came in for the day.

So, there we have it!

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Parked up after 140 totally trouble free track miles on the hottest day of the year! Huge success!

Just time to swap wheels, pack up and head home in convoy. Even the BMW looked smart cruising home :sunglasses:

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And one of the great things about circuit days, all the photos are included!

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BBD Driving:

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Looks nice and composed!

My inner hooligan wants to know if you’ve had a play on road tyres yet?
Its sunny, sticky warm tarmac, 400+hp, tyres screeching, rear end out :whistle2::racer:
 
Looks nice and composed!

My inner hooligan wants to know if you’ve had a play on road tyres yet?
Its sunny, sticky warm tarmac, 400+hp, tyres screeching, rear

It horrifies me to think there might even be a consideration that this hasn't already happened :laugh:

Man must test his machine :racer:

@Rainbird wants me to go full stealth and go terrorising people:

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Still doesn't look very subtle to me!
 
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There's something about it that doesn't quite fit the title of "stealth". Can't think what it is...

Aero-Milk-Chocolate-Bar-Value-Pack-24x41-g_18656538_6afdbcb76384e2ddd29f6caf11f692c6_t.jpg
 
Engage stealth mode :thumbs up:

Tempted to rattle can black mine when the arches finally disentegrate and it gets grinded and filled
 
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Look st that front arch in the pic destroying the tyre mid corner, lol.
Get that raised up....
 
Ok, so I never posted the stuff about ride height in the end :laugh:

Very briefly, My dear friend @RobinJI is much cleverer than me. We were discussing how the car was clearly FAR too low after Curborough, and he offered to model some data for me based on a few measurements I could take.

I got the tape measure out and got the info required, and Robin processed this and came up with some really interesting data.

Robin was keen to point out that there is a slight error in the camber curve and track width changes, which we will try and fix at some point, but the idea is certainly sound.

First up the camber curve with compression, based on the ride height at the time:

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This shows that as the strut compresses, camber increases, which is a good thing. This needs tweaking slightly, but it's still interesting to see.

Track width change:

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This shows that the car was sitting just near the peak of the track width change curve, so in the first 10mm or so of compression the track width remained reasonably constant, but after that, it started to decrease. In an ideal world you'd be further to the left of that peak.

And the really interesting one that everybody is aware of but nobody ever seems to have measured: Roll Centre!

Zxk1sg8.jpg


It's often spoken about, and how lowering a car ruins the front roll centre and takes it below the tarmac. The results of this are pretty obvious, as even without a silly scene low ride height, my roll centre was just 7mm above the tarmac with LCR arms and hubs.

From this point I've now raised the car nearly 20mm, which should put the roll centre more like ~40mm above the ground. The difference in feel is actually FAR more than I had expected too! the front ends just seems to grip that much better, and it seems to change direction far more effectively too.

So, his was the ride height pre Curborough:

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And this is how she's sitting now:

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To my mind, it looks far more purposeful!

With the ride height raised, and time ticking before Thruxton, I decided to pay to have the alignment done.

I usually do this myself, but it takes a good few hours to get it setup and adjusted with any decent accuracy, and sometimes your time is worth more than money.

There's a place in Southampton called 'The Wheel Alignment Centre' who I'd heard great things about. A 1 man band in a small unit with a single ramp, who famously does lots of the track and race cars around Hampshire.

A quick call and I was told £45 worst case for a full alignment including adjustment to top mounts for camber and caster. very reasonable I thought, so off I went!

I arrived and was urged straight onto the ramps. Nick (the owner) was well prepared with all manner of ramp extensions for low cars and splitters, which was nice to see:

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Alignment gear on, and this is where it sat:

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Toe was a mile out as I'd raised it so far, but camber and caster were incredibly even! I was very pleased with that.

Nick advised that my rear beam was ever so slightly out of position, causing the tiniest crab. Looking at the wheelbase measurements confirms this, with a 3mm difference from side to side, which would give it a kick in that direction:

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The whole lot was over and done in about 20 minutes!

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Whilst it was in the air I did get a quick chance to check my new centre section was all ok too:

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You can see how tight it in in the tunnel!

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Not a hint of rubbing though thanks to the fairly substantial mounting.

When I got home I also moved the fire ext nozzle I'd been meaning to do. I may have already posted this, I forget.

The new heatshield covered the nozzle and made it effectively useless, so i extended it through the heat shield so it now covers the hot bits again should I ever need it!

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Just for completeness, the other engine bay nozzle sits here:

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These spray out at a 45 degree angle, so this front nozzle covers the fuel rail, starter, and main electrics at the front of the engine.
 
Just for reference what do the front wishbones look like now?
I.e. Are they parallel to the ground?
 
Good stuff dude - @RobinJI has a habit of blowing my mind with how apparently effortlessly he is able to put a method to things which are often only discussed theoretically rather than put into practice. Genuinely think he could make good money moonlighting as a setup consultant - perhaps something similar to what Tarty Ads was doing with CleaR.
 
Just for reference what do the front wishbones look like now?
I.e. Are they parallel to the ground?

I'll try and get you a pic at some point. they pretty much look flat yes, as has always been the suggestion.

Heights measured are centre of ball joint and centre of front wishbone front bush.

At the first round of measurements pre adjustments the wishbone centre bush was at 130mm. These are now a shade below 150mm.

On an unrelated note, here's a little pic I put together this morning!

Over 12 years of the A3 in it's various forms!

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So, big day tomorrow!

@RobinJI is coming to stay this evening. I've stocked up on a huge array of bits and pieces, and tomorrow is the day we cut the rear arches!

1 arch is 50% rust

1 arch is 50% filler

This could be interesting :laugh:

:racer:
 
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