Prawn and BigAls A3 Track Car

Nathan Barnes

Registered User
So, this evening, I met up with @Nathan Barnes in Winchester (pleasure to meet you Nathan!), who very kindly let me have a drive of his hybrid powered S3.

As many will know, Nathan is breaking the car.

A deal was done, and I am now the 3rd Audi-sport member to own this engine (4th if you include @jojo pre rebuild) :racer:

A deposit was paid, and Nathan has now gone back to Wales in the car, where it'll be stripped and broken for parts over the coming weeks. Then at some point hopefully next month I'll have a trip to Cardiff to collect it :)

You'll be glad to know that I got home in one piece Nick - I took the old backroads to Swindon then joined the M4. First time I've been that way - They are interesting roads when it's quiet!

That engine will go on forever - It's a testiment to Andrew, Gops and (to a lesser extent) me that it's been well tended to and looked after. It'll be handed around this forum like a chalice until the end of time!
 

jojo

Looking for Boost!
Staff member
Moderator
I'd like my car back now please.

This bit of good news in the last week has really got me wanting it back ASAP.

Really very much hoping I'll be driving it again before Christmas.
I'd like my car back too! Not driven it in ages! Lol
 

fanta

Registered User
What accompanying things are you doing for the new engine?
I'm being completely selfish as I'm getting my engine swapped (once budget is there!) and keen to know what is worth changing/upgrading when I do. :)

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fanta

Registered User
What accompanying things are you doing for the new engine?
I'm being completely selfish as I'm getting my engine swapped (once budget is there!) and keen to know what is worth changing/upgrading when I do. :)


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Nathan Barnes

Registered User
Update from Nathan - the engine should be out this week :)

It is sat on the drive Nick.....Waiting for it's new owner to pick her up on the weekend!
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Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
Awesome, cheers Nathan!

The closer it gets the more desperately I want it done now!

The last 5 months I've just accepted it's broken, but now that it's close I'm starting to get impatient!

I've already got the bits required to complete the Supertech head, and thanks to Mike and the parts request system I've got a new cambelt, tensioner damper, head gasket, and head bolts on their way too :racer:

Hopefully it won't be too long before reassembly starts!
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
Engine collected!

Had a good day yesterday.

I dropped the previous Donor engine back with Bill, enjoyed a cup of tea and a good catch up with Bill, before heading south and across the bridge to see Nathan.

I returned home, after more tea, with a fully forged engine in the boot, and a small port phenolic gasket also.

Hopefully it won't be too long before I make some progress on this, and start assembling things to get the engine ready to drop in.

One thing Nathan reminded me of, showing me a shiney sachs paddle clutch, is the sensible need to re-line my paddle before refitting. it was fairly worn when I fitted it back in April, so it makes sense to get it relined so it's brand new before fitting it again!

Another job to add to the list...
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
oooooooooooooh,

it's like christmas here today!



Adapter plate returned! minus the stud from hell.

Looking at it, none of the threads look overly healthy, especially the one that's now been drilled out, so I'm considering running the drill through them all and helicoiling to make the threads deeper anyway. they currently don't pass right through the plate, making it difficult to tap to full depth.

I'm thinking of running the drill the whole way through, then inserting a helicoil and then grinding any roughness off from the back so it'll sit flush still.


Has anyone used helicoils in such high temperature applications before? Any arguments against them? Due to the shape / nature of the adapter a timesert is not an option at all.
 

Tabsy

Registered User
I wouldn't helicoil it. Get a new adapter, things like that expand at very different rates due to the mammoth heat involved.

Edit to add - biggest thing I've learned recently is don't **** about with important bits. If it's got any signs of being a weak point replace it.

Whilst the engine is out its a no brainer.

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Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
I wouldn't helicoil it. Get a new adapter, things like that expand at very different rates due to the mammoth heat involved.

Edit to add - biggest thing I've learned recently is don't **** about with important bits. If it's got any signs of being a weak point replace it.

Whilst the engine is out its a no brainer.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I thought you knew me :laugh:

Replacement is a £250 option I will not entertain :laugh: I just don't have the budget to throw it away if it can be repaired.
 

Tabsy

Registered User
I thought you knew me

Replacement is a £250 option I will not entertain I just don't have the budget to throw it away if it can be repaired.
You're like best mates with them I'm sure it's not a full £250

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Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
Clive hasn't had any for ages :(

I'm going to see what can be done with this. If I could deepen the hole without damaging what threads are left, then just tap the thread further into the plate that would be ideal, but I'm not sure how easy that'll be
 

Tabsy

Registered User
It's the angle those threads are cut at that worries me. You'll need a proper rig to get it right.

I'd drop Clive a line and see what their take is on it, maybe they a get their fabricator to have a nose.

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Rainbird

Registered User
How unhealthy are the threads looking? If they're not properly destroyed, I'd be inclined to pop some high temperature threadlock on there and bolting it all up as it is. If you can avoid having to get any work done on it that'd be ideal really
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
I'm going to take a tap to it this evening and properly find out.

With taps being tapered at the start, I think I need to sacrifice a spare M8 tap by cutting the tapered end off, allowing a full 'cut' right to the base of the hole.

Once I've done that I'll be able to work out how many threads I have in there.

The other idea I had to avoid damaging the threads with a drill, was to go through with a much smaller bit, say 4-5mm so no risk of touching the threads, then come back in from the back at 6.5mm to get it large enough to tap the whole way though, then simply use a slightly longer stud to catch more threads.
 

Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
Same happened to mine and managed to rescue it. Snapped stud inside the manifold. Doesnt help some bolts also catch the ones that secure it to the head aswell, which makes it even worse. Sure I just ran a tap down it and out the other side.

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Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
I hadn't actually thought of that Craig, but if all else fails, it certainly sounds like a plan!

I've just had a quote to re-line my helix paddle clutch plate from these guys:

http://www.industrialfriction.com/paddle-clutches/

I bought the helix in a hurry back in April, and whilst servicable, it was certainly beyond 50% worn.

It did exactly what I needed it to at the time, but given this engine is fully built, I'd like to think it won't be coming out for a few years at least, so I'd be happier knowing it's got a brand new clutch plate in there.
 

Broken Byzan

Photographic Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
VCDS Map User
I'd be making plates and machining the hotside to bolt on directly like the tte one. It's what I'll be doing if mine breaks. I've been lucky in thst respect as I've undone mine about once a week to change turbos. Lol. I did also use a ceramic anti seize compound on them.

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Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
I'd be making plates and machining the hotside to bolt on directly like the tte one. It's what I'll be doing if mine breaks. I've been lucky in thst respect as I've undone mine about once a week to change turbos. Lol. I did also use a ceramic anti seize compound on them.

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I'll have to see how this comes out with a bit of work. if it's not up to the job it will be binned, but I am confident it'll work again one way or another!

I feel like I might be gathering a little momentum now too.

I had a good chat with Bill on sunday, and engine temp was one thing that came up, and in particular, the correlation between running temp, willingness to accept timing, and ultimately peak power. he said very often the cars that don't make the numbers run very hot, and those that succeed are usually fairly cool.

With that in mind, a 74 degree thermostat arrived today :)


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DraganUS

Registered User
Do dealers sell these low temp thermostat? Is there any part number that goes with that thing or you just walk in ask them for 74c or 82c stat?
 

aragorn

"Stick a V8 in it!"
Staff member
Moderator
VCDS Map User
Prawn: you need a bottoming tap...

As for the thermostat, didnt you once tell me it ran way over 100c on track? If thats the case, the stat wont do anything, as the stock one will also have been wide open at that point.
 

Chris90

Active Member
VCDS Map User
With cylinder temps that rock up near the 7-800c mark...how is a thermostat going to help that by opening slightly earlier?

Getting the life kicked out of it on track, I doubt coolant temperature will be dropping below 82c or wherever the OEM stat opens.
 

beachbuggy

Registered User
You did have the preproduction one. Was the very first one done and very different to the ones made now. Definitely trying to find our feet with yours as people kept saying it wouldn't work, couldn't be done blah blah blah..

I'm impressed it's lasted as long as it did anyway and is was designed and made originally on a piece of wood to get the measurements. Seems to have done alright
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
Do dealers sell these low temp thermostat? Is there any part number that goes with that thing or you just walk in ask them for 74c or 82c stat?

74 degrees stats are available on ebay :)

Prawn: you need a bottoming tap...

As for the thermostat, didnt you once tell me it ran way over 100c on track? If thats the case, the stat wont do anything, as the stock one will also have been wide open at that point.


Bottoming tap. Cheers Kev.
thumb.gif


With regards the stat, you could well be right, but I certainly don't see it doing any harm either. If nothing else the lower stat will allow it all to cool further when ticking over in the pits etc rather than holding it at 88 degrees.

When does the thermoswitch on the radiator get the fans to kick in?

Whenever I tell it to thanks to Emerald :tongueout: i set both high and low speed fan set points myself :)

You did have the preproduction one. Was the very first one done and very different to the ones made now. Definitely trying to find our feet with yours as people kept saying it wouldn't work, couldn't be done blah blah blah..

I'm impressed it's lasted as long as it did anyway and is was designed and made originally on a piece of wood to get the measurements. Seems to have done alright

Same here Dan! it's done well.

The very first one, made to test a concept, and 3 years later it's done it's thing admirably. I'm confident that with a bit of very minor surgery it'll go on to perform it's duties for a good while longer too :)

I'm actually getting really excited about getting the car back together now!
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
Good day yesterday :)

Sat at home in the morning getting grumpy. Tori suggested I go to ADI to spectate anyway, so I did :)

Had a really good time. Saw Bill, Tuffty, Mark, and many many more asn folks, which was great.

I also got to gatecrash the ASN club stand with my alternative German Barge :laugh:

 

Lavis89

Well-Known Member
Regional Rep
I was wondering what a bmw was doing parked next to my s4. traitor ;) when i went for a walk around the track there was a full club stand... came back a couple hours later and there was only a handful of cars left, your barge being one. couldn't find anyone around to say goodbye so disapeared on the quiet
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
So, in typical Prawn fashion I'm looking at other things despite having a mountain of work to do to get the car running.

I found myself in conversation on facebook about my brake heat issues, and the fact that I manage to overheat my front brakes still, despite the fairly huge breaks and extensive cooling setup.

The topic steered round to ABS, and suspension setup, and something I'd never considered before.

With no intervention, brake bias on the car is by default biased toward the rear more than it needs to be, and the ABS uses wheel speeds to sense loads and locking points, to electronically alter brake distribution.

In my case, with a very light rear end, and very soft front springs, the car dives a LOT under braking.

it was suggested, that the ABS could well be shifitng brake bias almost entirely to the front, which along with the HUGE frontal weight transfer, is leaving the rear brakes doing basically nothing. This might explain why my rear brakes never get hot at all, and why the pads last about 4 years compared to 2-3 days on the fronts!

Given that I'd have to remove the ABS in order to go racing anyway, and knowing that access is impossible once the engine is in, I'm wondering if now is the time to take the plunge and remove the ABS whilst I have easy access.

Has anyone else done this and retained the stock M/C and pedal box?

I'm assuming it's a case of 1 MC output to the front brakes (With a T), and one MC output to the rear brakes, T'd at the back, and via a bias valve?
 

VAG-Slag

Registered User
So, in typical Prawn fashion I'm looking at other things despite having a mountain of work to do to get the car running.

I found myself in conversation on facebook about my brake heat issues, and the fact that I manage to overheat my front brakes still, despite the fairly huge breaks and extensive cooling setup.

The topic steered round to ABS, and suspension setup, and something I'd never considered before.

With no intervention, brake bias on the car is by default biased toward the rear more than it needs to be, and the ABS uses wheel speeds to sense loads and locking points, to electronically alter brake distribution.

In my case, with a very light rear end, and very soft front springs, the car dives a LOT under braking.

it was suggested, that the ABS could well be shifitng brake bias almost entirely to the front, which along with the HUGE frontal weight transfer, is leaving the rear brakes doing basically nothing. This might explain why my rear brakes never get hot at all, and why the pads last about 4 years compared to 2-3 days on the fronts!

Given that I'd have to remove the ABS in order to go racing anyway, and knowing that access is impossible once the engine is in, I'm wondering if now is the time to take the plunge and remove the ABS whilst I have easy access.

Has anyone else done this and retained the stock M/C and pedal box?

I'm assuming it's a case of 1 MC output to the front brakes (With a T), and one MC output to the rear brakes, T'd at the back, and via a bias valve?

My drift project A4 has had ABS delete and manual brake bias controller installed, will have a closer look at what's actually been done when I'm next down the yard... The main problem though is the warning on the dash and beeping every few minutes, which cannot be programmed out. Only way to get rid of the beeping is by disabling the actual thing in the clocks that makes the beep, even then you'll still constantly have an exclamation mark on your DIS. . .

Edit: just a thought, not sure how/if the above might differ as you're running stand alone anyway....
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
The main problem though is the warning on the dash and beeping every few minutes, which cannot be programmed out. Only way to get rid of the beeping is by disabling the actual thing in the clocks that makes the beep, even then you'll still constantly have an exclamation mark on your DIS. . .

Edit: just a thought, not sure how/if the above might differ as you're running stand alone anyway....

This was actually a pretty big concern for me too mate!

I HATE warning lights of any kind, so an ABS warning on the DIS would drive me insane. I'd cut the screen off and remove the buzzer if it wern't the only warning for oil pressure also.

Perhaps time to install a standalone oil pressure gauge and do away with the DIS and buzzer.
 

Prawn

My other car is a MINI!!!!
In theory, pipework wise, I'd need the following:

Brake pipe, bender, fittings, flaring tool:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pip...742517?hash=item3f4216fd35:g:JlMAAOSwg3FUfMNs

Some some T pieces:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Way-T-P...942665?hash=item1c68006d09:g:facAAOSwmLlX1~QS

And a bias valve:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291909479718?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I've noticed some VAG cars running an ABS delete, like Bills Ibiza, run 2 rear bias valves.

I'm unsure if this is down to a single valve not reducing pressure far enough, or if those cars are plumbed up with a diagonal split for safety reasons.

I believe the stock MC is a tandem bore, so you COULD pipe a diagonal split and have separate rear lines to each side, or you could run a single line to the back with single bias valve (if it'll reduce pressure enough) and run a front / rear split circuit.
 
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