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Facelift Pirelli Tyre Defects - Response

AudiNutta Dec 2, 2018

  1. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in

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    So my original comment about the 235 R02 being quieter than the R01 must be purely down to compound?
     
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  3. CWD

    CWD Registered User

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    Or tread construction, shape of tread blocks has an effect on noise...... whatever it is compound construction etc etc they shouldn't be doing what they are when they were specifically speced for the car
     
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  4. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Thanks, was questioning myself then haha.. but yes was sure both had it.
     
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  5. Jonny B

    Jonny B Registered User

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    I have ro1’s on currently replaced the Ro2 ‘s long story .. staggered , saloon . however I can’t notice any difference in noise or handling . Looking at the Sidewall is the only way I could tell them apart . For what it’s worth . To soon to tell if wear is different.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    R01 255
    [​IMG]

    R01 255 vs Michelin Pilot super sport 235

    [​IMG]

    Pirelli R01 255
    [​IMG]

    Michelin Pilot Super sport 235

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Splathead

    Splathead Registered User

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    So much for automotive standards.
     
  8. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    I was told by Goodyear technical that a tyre of a certain size can fall either way by a certain percentage according to the guidelines.

    He reckoned that Pirelli had worked with Audi on the P-Zero for the quattro system, the narrow tread on the 255 is done for a reason I was told.
     
  9. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    Wrong comparison picture above

    The Pirelli above is 235.

    Here’s a R01 Pirelli 255 vs Michelin Pilot Supersport 235

    As you can see there’s nothing in it tread width wise.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Tiguanito

    Tiguanito Registered User

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    Happened to me as well, I guess I’m lucky it happened at 30mph, and after 13,000 miles.
    I had no idea the tire was that bad inside.
    I don't understand why Audi doesn't inform the owners about the issue. It could be catastrophic at high speed.

    IMG_0169.jpeg IMG_0170.jpeg



    [​IMG]
     
  11. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Yep that’s another real bad one, will get a PM over to you to fill out.

    It’s amazing that nobody has had this happen to them yet at high speed :O All low speed blowouts.

    Audi are well aware, they do not give a toss.
     
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  13. BottomFeeder

    BottomFeeder Registered User

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    That's EXACTLY what happened to me, 13000 miles (almost exactly 13k too) and I suddenly lost all pressure on front left, thankfully it happened just a minute from home, at low speed.
     
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  14. Dean87

    Dean87 Registered User

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    This has happened to me today 9500 miles, girlfriend was driving the car at low speed when the tyre indicator light came on, stopped the car and she could hear the air escaping from the front drivers side tyre, when I’ve came home from work and took the tyre off this what I found :wtf:

    Checked the passenger side front with my hand and I can feel all the internal mesh hanging out on the inside, Audi needs to take responsibility for this it’s a joke
     

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  15. GW1

    GW1 Registered User

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    Dean87. What a lucky girl mate. It’s great that she is well mate but as you say WTF. There is a major safety concern here not only for yourselves but other road users. I think there is too much passing the buck here , Audi saying it’s nothing to do with them and the tyre manufacturers saying it’s nothing to do with them, well there is something going on here. I think that if everyone who is being effected contacted “Watchdog” then something may happen. Don’t bother with the motoring press as they are all in bed with the manufacturers. What about the DVLA or ROSPA give them ago. Take it from me when the BMW had a problem with the power steering fluid leaking onto a hot exhaust manifold and the cars catching fire and Watchdog getting involved things change ASAP. Audi don’t like bad publicity especially as all car manufacturers are struggling at the moment.
     
  16. Robsrs

    Robsrs Registered User

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    I have had my geometry checked all is within tolerance. Although the front tyres are still excessively wearing inside. The remaining tyre has 3mm.

    Car is on the staggered setup
    Pirelli p zero ro2 tyres.

    I have just changed the front pair as the old pair are clearly not going to last much longer.

    Looks to be an issue how Audi have set the car up.

    85D2855E-FAD1-4649-934B-634FCB603DFF.png 0D34CD6E-8DB2-4FAA-82F9-956E97902EB1.png 1BC26AFB-567C-4D5B-A4CF-05DCF27DC4D7.jpeg
     
  17. Dean87

    Dean87 Registered User

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    Very lucky indeed mate, my daughter and mam were in the car also, getting both tyres changed tomorrow so I’m going to get more close up photos but needless to say both tyres absolutely trashed.

    Someone needs to take responsibility, this is a major accident waiting to happen
     
  18. GW1

    GW1 Registered User

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    I was just thinking is this issue just here in the U.K. or is it international. Knowing what the North American federal government is like if there was an issue they would be all over Audi like a rash. I know that if you buy an Audi in North America and it has a DSG gearbox you get a 10 year warranty, not like the three years we get here.
     
  19. Slowracer

    Slowracer Registered User

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    It’s a common issue regularly reported in the USA and Australia and ignored by Audi on all counts.
     
  20. GW1

    GW1 Registered User

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    I had an S3 which was absolutely fine and never had any issues with tyre wear. If I had been aware of this issue, I may not have bought a new 2019 RS3. There must be a logical reason why this is happening to some vehicles but not all of them. If there was an alignment issue within the chassis surely it would affect all vehicles. If it’s a steering geometry problem this could be dialled out through adjustment, very strange indeed.
     
  21. Stu+mel

    Stu+mel Registered User

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    Mine again, first time at 8000 and now again at 16000, ****** ridiculous as there is plenty of tread left on the rest of the tyre
     

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  22. rdj

    rdj Registered User

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    Don't forget to get in touch with AudiNutta and keep hold of your tyres guys. The more examples Pirelli get the greater the possibility they will establish what's happening. I'm personal opinion is it's a tyre construction issue...
     
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  23. GW1

    GW1 Registered User

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    I know vehicle manufacturers build to a cost and profit is their main motivation but the consequences of a death in these circumstances could give Audi a very uncomfortable time. I picked up a new RS3 two weeks ago and it’s fitted with Pirelli tyres, would Audi stick with a tyre manufacturer if they thought there was a problem with there supplied equipment. Perhaps it might be worth finding out what other vehicle manufacturers use the same tyres and are they having the same problems. Do you think the damage is caused by scrubbing of the tyre or is it coming into contact with any part of the chassis. From the pictures I have seen it doesn’t look like it’s a failure of the tyre carcass but then, I am not an expert.
     
  24. rdj

    rdj Registered User

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    In most pictures it looks like a type of de lamination to me possibly overheating of the inner proportion of the tyre due to the camber? Perhaps Pirelli used a different combination of materials on the RO2s to reduce noise and wear? Like you I'm not expert so am speculating.
    As for Audi continuing to use Pirelli for the RS3s their response is always likely to be that those have experienced failures are a minority. If they've rejected complaints in the U.S with their litigation society then there isn't much hope elsewhere...which is probably the brick wall that AudiNutta has come up against..
    I'm not looking forward to this potential issue either - I collect mine at the start of September..
     
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  25. GW1

    GW1 Registered User

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    if Audi are saying that the issues with these tyres is only a minority of cases, that is still too many where public safety is concerned and perhaps the department of transport would be very interested. If not all owners are reporting this problem then there must be an unquantifiable issue in play here, now that’s the hard part.
     
  26. Slowracer

    Slowracer Registered User

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    It’s the shape of the the tyre combined with the high caster that the car runs. Even at standstill that inner edge is almost contacting the ground, so any amount of steering input scrubs that edge which is probably the weakest part of the tyre. If you run the top end of the pressure range it will help to keep the tyre of that edge and give you a longer life. Tyre pressure and in some cases bad alignment can explain the variance in wear rate between cars.
     
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  27. steve111b

    steve111b Registered User

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    Went to the tyre shop and requested that my summer tyres be rebalanced (6,000 kms). Both front tyres were out of spec and I think they were 33 and 39 on the road force machine. The last set of my winter tyres were rebalanced so that they were all in the single digits on the road force. There is a wobble on the front summer tyres and I doubt that they can ever be balanced correctly.

    Lo and behold two guys walk in and start looking at my tyres. One guy comes into the waiting room and pulls out a laptop which says Pirelli on the back. Eventually he talks to me and says he is the Pirelli rep. for the region, who happens to be passing by. The other man is a tyre distributor for the region. The tyre distributor says that I am very lucky to see the Pirelli rep. and I should go out and buy a lottery ticket. He jokes that a Pirelli rep. has not been seen in these parts in 40 years. Later on I asked the tyre shop owner when was the last time he saw the Pirelli rep.? This is the first time in 30 years.

    The head technician for Pirelli Canada calls the shop owner and they discuss my situation. My front tyres have no unusual wear except for the wobble. It seems that the tyres do a heel and toe movement around every corner, which creates the wobble. Not sure if anything will come of my brush with fame, but who knows?
     
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  28. jrumball

    jrumball Registered User

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    I own an A3 e-tron but had similar issues a while back. Nearly having a double blowout........

    Just to add to the discussion I had my suspension upgraded to a Bilstein B12 kit and fitted 18s with Pirelli P Zeros AO fitment after about 4 months and 5k miles There appears to be no evidence of the same problems .....

    IMG_6689.jpg IMG_6690.jpg IMG_6693.jpg IMG_6691.jpg IMG_6692.jpg
     
  29. Colin A

    Colin A Registered User

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    Another one for the list. While in for some engine work Audi report excessive inner edge wear on my front tyres. Car has only done 7300 miles. Will change the tyres once I get the car back but Audi Belfast then want to send the tyres to Pirelli. Did I read there a form and pro forma e mail here for the problem?
     
  30. Colin A

    Colin A Registered User

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    Just replaced the front tyres. Showing excessive wear on the inside edge and almost down to the canvas. Only 7400 miles done!
     

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    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019
  31. tha_ben

    tha_ben Registered User

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    Do we have enough people to take this to Audi UK as a group yet?

    My experience is they will only look at the case individually and not even acknowledge there is an issue, when pointing them to this forum they will not advise on other users issues, so if we take 1 case, but multiple people to Audi UK, surely that would be the next steps?

    Ben.
     
  32. jedster2000

    jedster2000 Registered User

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    Im at 6,000 miles and have gone through 2 new front passenger tyres. First one instantly deflated when I hit a pothole and the 2nd has just had to be changed due to a bulge in the sidewall. I spoke with an Audi Swindon technician about this all and he told me the new RS3 were likely going to be coming out of he factory with something other than Pirelli now. He also told me the RS models tend to be setup for spirited driving, meaning they lean on the inside edge on purpose so that in the bends, the body weight flattens out the camber increases the grip. Kind of all makes sense but the fact that the Pirellis seem so delicate means I will aim to swap to another manufacturer when it's time to move on to new rubber.
     
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  34. 45bvtc

    45bvtc The Older I Get The Better I Was Supporter Gold Supporter

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    See posts #268 and #306 and then enquire with AudiNutta (Matthew) who's done a sterling job trying to make everyone at Audi UK aware of this Safety-NEGATIVE issue. As you well know, Stafford Audi are well aware and yet the blinkers seem to be well and truly on, everywhere.

    CRAZY situation [​IMG]
     
  35. alexhop

    alexhop Registered User

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    Just to comment on my own experience, had to change my fronts at 14,000ks due to issues as experienced above. Got a wheel alignment redone by my local Audi dealer in Auckland NZ 12 months ago. Car has just had its second service at 31,000ks, new rotors, pads and the the tires are still in ok condition with evan wear. I explained to my service manager that I am running around 43 psi on the fronts and 38 psi on the rears which could be helping as well. He went onto say that the cars are set up very aggressively from the factory which is good for cornering but **** for tire wear so they are re-aligning all RS3's as they come in fresh off the boat as a preventative measure.

    On a side not, took the car for my first ever track day with some friends with a v8 rs4, v6 rs5 and rs6 proformance. The little RS3 had them all in cornering and under braking and gave up ****** all on the straights.
     
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  36. RGBARGEE

    RGBARGEE Registered User

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    I’ve just bought x2 235/35 x19 P Zero fitted and balanced for £238 !
     
  37. TYb

    TYb Registered User

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    If Audi aren’t paying much attention to this it may be worth contacting watchdog, @AudiNutta you have a lot of evidence now, Audi might begin to listen if they realise you’ve gone another route.
     
  38. infernox

    infernox Registered User

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    This has happened to me too. As with most people in this thread, had my first service and the Audi service guy noticed it. It's mainly on the front drivers side tyre which has some cords showing making it illegal and the other side tyre has wear but isn't showing cords (Audi being Audi are charging £280 for 1 tyre and £396 for wheel alignment). Treads were just under 5mm on the fronts, 1 rear was also just under 5mm and the other was 6.2mm (think Derby Audi changed this when I bought it from them). I have the Audi cam footage if anyone wants to see it or wants screenshots of the wear. My car is a Saloon without mag ride on the black alloys, no mods other than PCW exhaust mod, just under 11k miles now. No idea how long I've been driving around with the cord showing, wouldn't have known without the Audi service as the tread is fine.

    I have a feeling it does have something to do with using full lock turns which was brought up earlier in the thread. With my driver side getting more worn than the passenger side tyre, I wonder if its because I full lock turn more in one direction than the other. If you ever get in the situation where you need to turn in the middle of a junction and are waiting for the cars to go by, then get a gap to go, the car does jolt at those full lock accelerations, I wonder if that has anything to do with it.

    Where did you get that from? I wonder if its the same price. Would that also fit the standard wheels fine? Reading through the thread I'm annoyed I missed out on those cheap Michelin PS4's, they're nowhere near £105 now. I think I'll either just get 2 P Zero tyres or 4 Goodyear Tyres and sell the 2 good P Zeros.
     
  39. jetbox

    jetbox Registered User

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    Hi,

    just checked my fronts and they too are down t9 the cords on the inside edge, the rest of the tyre is even with around 4mm left. Looks like I was lucky I caught them in time. Are we any closer to a claim against Audi or perelli . Has anyone actually tried watch dog or auto express or someone like that?
     
  40. JackQuint

    JackQuint Registered User

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    New RS3 owner and reading through this thread has me scared about a sudden tire failure at speed. Not a concern right now as I have winter rubber (PA4s) on the car and only had the P-Zeros on for about three weeks between purchase and the change over so they only have a few hundred kms on them at this point. Really appreciate all the posts and info ...

    Generally, at how many kms should I start to worry about a safety issue? At that point, I'll do a change.

    Also, Audi Canada's website has a number of different tires listed as approved in the OEM staggered spec including the Conti Extremecontact, Proxes 4, and the PS4S. I note the concerns about traction system errors and the like with the PS4S, has anyone had the same issues arise with the Contis or Toyos? They also list the Dunlop Sport RT, Yokohama Advan Sport V103, and Eagle F1 Asym 3 as tires they sell in the OEM staggered spec. I figure if I buy the tires from Audi and their dealer, any of these issues are their responsibility to fix and the prices are only a bit higher than tire shops around here.
     
  41. infernox

    infernox Registered User

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    I wouldn't worry right now if you only got a few hundred miles on it. Mine lasted 11k miles. I put on Eagle F1 Asym 5's on the front and still got the P Zero's on the back. I'd say the Michelin PS4S are the best with the Goodyear Super Sports close 2nd.
     
  42. JackQuint

    JackQuint Registered User

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    Thanks ... I didn't figure it would be right away, more about whether it's 5K or 7500 or wherever.
     
  43. infernox

    infernox Registered User

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    I think all of us in this thread got the cords showing after 10k miles but others haven't got it at all. Do you get the swaying thing?
     

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