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Facelift Pirelli Tyre Defects - Response

AudiNutta Dec 2, 2018

  1. Splathead

    Splathead Registered User

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    Nearly at 7000 miles and both fronts are still looking very good.
    No sign of dramatic wear on the inside edges yet.

    IMG_20190519_113410.jpg IMG_20190519_113513.jpg
     
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  3. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    You and I seem to have bucked the trend.

    Same here at 14k. New tyres ordered and put on but not Pirelli.
     
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  4. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    I will send you a PM with some questions to complete :)
     
  5. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Yours is there but not as severe, it’s difficult to see until it’s drastic but when you know what to look for.

    Your inside tread blocks are sloping away, follow the line on the cut out between each blocks and from 2/3 way from the inner block to the outer edge it slopes away and isn’t squared off.

    You also have evidence of scrubbing marks on the inside edges, there are 3 angles of contact there. Your primary footprint which is lightest in colour, but if you follow around to the wall there are another two flat edges where the car has been kneeling on the tyre walls.

    So there is evidence which is interesting to see, but the deterioration is much slower on yours.

    [​IMG]

    Excuse my wibbly wobbly drawing with my finger on my phone, hopefully helps explain a little better. Maybe slight exaggerated (because all tyres roll off to the edges), but the tyre starts with a square tread block like on the green line, yours has dropped away following the read.. less tread on the edge of that block than the start.

    Then regards to the kneeling over, the blue, yellow and white show you the edges of different wear angles. I totally agree this doesn’t stand out to be excessive, but it’s the start and I’ve got evidence of all that you have after 2000 miles on my third set. (18k on the clock now), second set changed after 5k due to a bubbled sidewall but the same wear was there.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  6. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    A few have broken the trend, it’s so strange because there just isn’t any pattern... that’s why I’ve got a spreadsheet, all variants and possible specifications suffer regardless but probably about a 1/3 of them don’t have the issue.
     
  7. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    Plus the thousands of USA cars.
     
  8. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Strange :/ None of us have an answer to that one...
     
  9. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    Uk roads
     
  10. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    That’s the obvious one, but surely tyres should be designed to withstand our rubbish roads? ;)

    Not like every tyre suffers with this.

    To be honest I’m starting to grow really tired of this now, unless Pirelli do a bit of a wonder deal when I buy my next set the Michelin’s are looking all the more attractive even if the sidewalls are straight as a die :shrug:

    I’m toying with the idea of some OZ Superturismo’s and that would mean 8.5J all around, so 255/30 all around would stop any rolling circumference discrepancies.
     
  11. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    235 a better option

    Look just right too

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Jonny B

    Jonny B Registered User

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    Just checked mine . 7000 miles approx , Saloon , staggered set up , RO2 ‘s on the front , car delivered in UK
    Nov 17 . Even wear , at least from an eyeball . Good tread left across the width . Mixture of driving , quite a few calming measures on my way out of town .


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Jonny B

    Jonny B Registered User

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    I like you , luv that sidewall design on RO 2 . That may not be the overriding point given issues a number of people have suffered , but shame to lose them in my opinion .


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  15. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Probably would be and much cheaper to buy the tyres for, but OZ don’t seem to produce the Superturismo’s in 8J hence why I couldn’t stay staggered.

    Nice discs! Are they Tom Wrigley discs? With DS Performance or DS2500 pads?
     
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  16. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Thank you for the feedback! You can use the guide a few posts up where I marked the members photo out to highlight how you can see this wear at an early stage.

    I’m glad I’m not the only one haha, the Pirelli’s look amazing.. would be gutted to lose that.
     
  17. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    8.5j fronts though

    [​IMG]

    Reyland discs.
     
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  18. RAPS3

    RAPS3 Registered User

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    59A73697-00FD-46E7-8A24-68FF731DED49.jpeg 95FE9B0C-C4F5-4900-93D1-21E95E3809E2.jpeg

    Wow !!
     
  19. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Yep! There's another. I will send over a PM now to clarify some details on your car.

    Please keep your tyres, Pirelli will collect free of charge and get a report back to you.
     
  20. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    UPDATE;

    Some positive news from Pirelli today, Head Office at Milan are now involved. There are no issues reported in Italy, so now the concentration is what is different for the UK market (as well as one or two from Australia which I will remind).

    The design team for this tyre, the one who works with Audi to test it etc are now involved, this is fantastic news... Pirelli ARE interested, keep at it guys hopefully we fill find a fix for this. Audi have wiped their hands of us, Pirelli do truly care as they have told me from the beginning.
     
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  21. royalsteve68

    royalsteve68 Registered User

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    you dont need to be a design expert to say thats a tyre design or manufacturing issue. pretty disgusting that Audi has washed their hands of it
     
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  22. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    It’s totally “normal” for an RS car and I “should be happy to get 5000 miles out of tyres on an RS3”.
     
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  23. sve170

    sve170 Registered User

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    Totally agree, certainly is an issue and probably a safety concern. The ‘no issue’ statement from Audi is expected, they don’t want any involvement where they may have to replace tyres on the affected vehicles with new tyres.

    I have said before my first set of tyres were perfect when I recently changed them due to normal wear and tear.
    There are also many other owners who do not have the issue.

    Would be interesting to compare two cars with same mileage and see if settings are the same or wildly different.


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  24. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    It’s absolutely a safety concern, a good few have had blowouts now.. it’s scary!

    Audi will never care, not until there is a lawsuit after a death. In fact I don’t think they will care then, but they won’t be able to ignore it.

    We have compared geometry settings, all identical.
     
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  25. sve170

    sve170 Registered User

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    Yes it is a safety concern, with comparison geometry settings the same then it points to a definite issue with the tyre or the rubber compound used at that time.

    Wondering if Pirelli use different companies to supply the rubber?


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  26. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Hmm no I think it is all consistent, Pirelli have actually chopped up tyres from different batches (the way it was worded I assume brand new tyres) and all have been produced to within their standards and the design specification. Pirelli do have different factories, but supposedly these ones are made in Germany.

    I contacted the DVSA to see if they would be willing to pursue, they said it isn’t a safety concern as tyres are something that the owner can see in ‘daily checks’, yes but that’s an excuse I’d expect from Audi. It’s what is reasonably practical to do so and what the public are actually likely to do, use a bit of common sense why don’t they.
     
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  27. sve170

    sve170 Registered User

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    Really sums it up with Audi. I have also asked my dealer (sales and service) if they were aware of the issue and as usual ‘we are not aware and have not been advised via Germany of the issue.




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  28. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Audi UK actually told me that they will not admit this is an issue until they issue a recall, until then there is no issue :lmfao: It takes an issue to be raised and investigated appropriately to proceed towards a recall.

    If you tell me what dealer this is, I can tell you if I had a direct response from them. I sent emails to 117 Audi Centre’s and had an acknowledgement from about 15 of them, no more.
     
  29. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    Wasting your time on this in my opinion.

    They’ll (Audi) never admit there’s an issue.

    If they did there would be RS3 owners world wide jumping on the ‘gimme free replacement tyres bandwagon’

    If Pirelli admit something then Pirelli would have to cough up, again probably not something they will admit too.

    Why is it only Pirelli Tyres that do this ?

    Not heard of any other manufacturers tyre displaying this issue.

    If you keep sticking with Pirelli because ‘it looks good’ your mad........
     
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  30. BMC

    BMC Registered User

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    Email sent to Pirelli tonight:

    Good Evening.

    I am emailing in relation to several worrying issues I have recently experienced regarding the front two Pirelli PZero tyres I have on my 2018 Audi RS3 Sportback.

    I have covered approximately 12,000 miles on the vehicle and during this time I have consistently maintained upkeep of my tyres and ensured they adhered to the correct pressures at all times to ensure longevity.

    You can imagine my surprise then, whenever recently I had a ‘blowout’ on the front right tyre of my vehicle whilst travelling home from work. After a recovery truck had been tasked and my car subsequently delivered home on the rear of this. I decided to examine the extent of the damage. What I then saw was a heavy amount of wear on the inside of the tyre in what would not normally be a contact patch. This was to the extent where I could place my hand inside the tyre such was the level of damage caused. This was a grave concern given the potential safety issues.

    However, I then checked the same inner area of the tyre on my left hand side tyre. Only to find a similar problem whereby there was an excessive amount of wear on the inside, and the outside still had a good amount of tread depth which I would consistently check.

    I have attached pictures of both tyres for your attention.

    I find this very concerning given the excellent reputation Pirelli have and in particular the PZero tyres, that my tyres have become a huge safety hazard after such a short period of time. Having conducted a quick search on the internet I have found several examples of this happening on the ‘facelift’ RS3, and I am aware there is currently an investigation being undertaken at your HQ into why this is happening.

    Please can you advise as to what, if any, are my options at this stage? Is this a fault in the design of the tyre as I find this abnormal that an identical occurrence seems to be happening to owners of this particular vehicle. I have always held Pirelli in the highest regard and do not wish this to have a negative impact on my fears for my safety whilst driving my vehicle.
    Please find attached photos for your attention,

    N.B, the first 3 pictures are the left hand side (passenger) tyre. The last 2 photos are the side where the blowout occurred.

    Many Thanks and I look forward to your response.
     
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  31. rdj

    rdj Registered User

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    In relation to your last point I have been surprised how apparently few owner have experimented with other brands. On my A45 my Contis were shot in a similar way by 9,000 miles but a new set of the same didn't even come into my thinking. That's why I have Goodyears on the front now and have been very happy with them - no obvious signs of uneven wear either...
    Are people sticking with Pirelli as they are what's fitted by the factory?:huh:
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  32. Phil B-B

    Phil B-B Registered User

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    Hi I am new to the forum and looked on here as Audi will not take any responsibility for this tyre problem. My tyres look exactly the same as yours on a 2018 RS3 with 12k miles. The inner edge on both fronts has the same groove which led to a burst and wreaked a wheel.
    I will definitely send over to Pirelli with the link you mentioned and thanks for all your efforts looking into this ! audi tyre1.jpg audi tyre 2.jpg
     
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  34. Phil B-B

    Phil B-B Registered User

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    Hi I am new to the forum and looked on here as Audi will not take any responsibility for this tyre problem. My tyres look exactly the same as yours on a 2018 RS3 with 12k miles. The inner edge on both fronts has the same groove which led to a burst and wreaked a wheel.
    I will definitely send over to Pirelli with the link you mentioned and thanks for all your efforts looking into this ! View attachment 183079 View attachment 183080
     
  35. rdj

    rdj Registered User

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    To me this looks like a manufacturing problem - the tread seems to be coming away from the carcass. There is no way that the wear on the very extreme of the shoulder in your picture - and others on here - can have been caused by spirited driving or even out of whack camber. Can you imagine the angle the wheel would need to be at to cause that kind of wear? Surely such an angle is not possible?
     
  36. CWD

    CWD Registered User

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    The problem is I think it is possible with the stretched nature of the tyre design, I exit a very tight very uphill junction and the front driver side is almost totally in the air, I believe under these conditions when the wheel spins up I'm on the sidewall, I also think there has to be a corellation between the internal insulation and the point of failure which might add to over heating of the tyre at that piont
     
  37. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    With Audi, yes I wasted days and days of my time.. total bunch of toss pots.

    Pirelli really are interested in this, for what I’m doing now by keeping this thread up to date and maintaining contact with Pirelli is somewhat low effort and will continue to do so as they do give a sense of hope.

    I think if anything will happen it will be a slight design / manufacturing change with the tyre that we won’t know about, then the problem will just go.
     
  38. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Brilliant, thank you very much.. great email there!

    I will get something over to you in your DM’s to complete so I can add you to the spreadsheet.
     
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  39. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Hiya Phil,

    Thanks very much for your contribution and photos of your tyres.

    Seems to be there are lots of people coming out with this issue now, maybe as the cars do more miles.. I suspect I did mine a little faster than some.

    I will send you over a DM now to complete some information to add you to my spreadsheet.
     
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  40. T-800

    T-800 Guest

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    The tyre guy I use thought this way too.

    Even though I’ve never personally had an issue with any RS tyre, when I went with the Supersport Goodyear’s recently he explained he sees similar issues on some Mercs, but on the rear wheels.
    It made sense to me when he showed me the tyre on any sort of lock, the very angled sidewalls become even more angled because of the way the front steering geometry is set up......

    He also explained the way the steering geometry is set up means it’s only the inner edges that have the issue, the outside never suffers from it.
     
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  41. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    It does appear so, I’m only saying that because we are having this wear on PFL’s now as well running RO2 tyres!

    Audi have put it down to my ‘hard driving’, haha.

    Put the car on a hard lock on an off camber surface and you will see that the sidewall is actually skimming the floor... these cars kneel over severely.

    The tyre isn’t as wide as the Michelin because it is stretched, the 255 isn’t the actual width of the tread it is the tyre overall. The shoulder of the tyre slopes away slightly when new, I suspect the car is just putting a lot of load on those inside edges and the tyre isn’t built to withstand it.
     
  42. Gnasher

    Gnasher Registered User

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    @AudiNutta not an owner (yet) but I've got to admire your tenacity at keeping going with this, especially after all the knock backs and disappointments you've experienced with it from Audi. I know you have a vested interest from your own point of view but it's good to see you extending this for the benefit of others as well as yourself.

    Hats off to you sir!
     
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  43. AudiNutta

    AudiNutta Moderator Staff Member Moderator Gold Supporter

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    Thank you that really does mean a lot.

    I know it’s a tough battle and I will be amazed if we do find a permanent resolve, but I plan on keeping this car and if what I’m doing now will find a resolution for us all it’s totally worth it.

    Oh yeah, get yourself one of these cars because they are outstanding.
     
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