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Phew, that's a relief!

EddyP Jun 30, 2014

  1. EddyP

    EddyP Member

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    So, a few months ago I bought a 2005 3.0 TDI V6 B7, and unfortunately it developed a cam chain rattle.

    I did a lot of research on here and it looked like the only guaranteed fix was engine out and do all the chains and tensioners, although there was talk of doing the upper right bank tensioner in situ, and that it sometimes fixes it.

    So I got the part from TPS, got an engine locking kit and on Saturday embarked on the task, whilst it is a pain in the **** job, changing the tensioner itself is the easy bit, it's removing everything else to get to it that's a pain.

    A good few hours later and the job was done, and after much driving and stop/starts today I am confident that it's fixed the rattle!!!!!!!!


    Thank F for that!


    Now for the remap, Miltek system, RS6 wheels, and leather trim…...
     
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  3. rizzini7

    rizzini7 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Good work mate, had similar issues with my petrol. Also looked into getting it all changed (£££££). Thank god a technician at the local Audi suggested to my mechanic about changing just the faulty tensioner.
    Started off with left one as it was making hell of a noise. It also takes all the strain. Was fine for a few months then right side started playing up so had that changed as well. Touch wood it's been fine since. When my mate removed the right hand tensioner it fell apart
     
  4. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    Glad you got it sorted pal. Was the cam chain rattle continuous or just on start-ups? I get a rattle on start up but it then disappears after a couple of seconds. How much were the parts and locking kit and how difficult was this to do?

    Azeem.
     
  5. EddyP

    EddyP Member

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    That's the same as mine was, few seconds on start up, was mostly when the car was warm and had been left for 20 mins or so. Lately it had been getting worse though and doing it more often which is why I got it done pronto.

    I managed to get the locking kit off ebay for £30, and it did the job fine. The actual tensioner was about £150, this is with a trade discount, I did buy a new gasket but didn't use it as they gave me the wrong gasket and I didn't have the time to be without the car a couple of days when they got a new gasket, so instead I careful cleaned the old one and used some special volvo instant gasket stuff i've got.

    It's not the most complex of jobs, just awkward, would you be wanting to do it yourself? I could try to do some sort of rough guide if it would help people? I only took a couple of pics when doing the job though.

    It's worth noting that this won't definitely fix your rattle, there's a risk you may need to do all of them, an Audi tech on another forum suggested that it fixes 90% of cars but not all. It's worth a go before taking the engine out though, especially if you're going to do it yourself, you'd be buying the part anyway no matter which method you have to use to fix it.
     
    Mat196 likes this.
  6. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    If you just briefly jot down what you removed in what order etc. that would be very helpful. I'll have a look on workshop guide and see if I find anything useful on there. Will keep you all updated.

    Azeem
     
  7. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    Mine has had this rattle since I have had it. Mine is 2007 model, I thought they had fixed the tensioners by then?
     
  8. EddyP

    EddyP Member

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    So heres a brief guide to doing this job, as you won't find much about doing it from above in the workshop guide.

    Remove engine cover
    Remove air box (plastic rivet into inner wing, then rubber clips underneath, 2 screws by front grill for air duct to filter assembly)
    When you have the grill to air box duct out, take out the little filter that's inside it and clean it out, I found a LOT of leaves and general **** in mine.
    Undo the fuel filter mounts then cable tie the filter to one of the front injector pipes to get it out the way.
    Remove the filter bracket form the bulkhead, 3 very odd nuts, 8mm.
    I then took the intake pipework off the turbo because it was a bit in the way and covered in ****, there's two allen bolts holding it to the turbo, undo these and then just pull it off, it's quite a tight fit as it's a rubber pipe.
    Next pull the brake servo vacuum pipe out of the rubber fitting on the bulkhead, it's quite stiff but will come off.
    Then you need to remove the vacuum pump off the back of the cam cover, all of the torx bolts are T30s.

    This is the selection of different bits that I used:

    [​IMG]

    Once the vac pump is off, put that out the way and start working through the bolts holding the cam chain cover on.
    First off, go for the one that's holding the black pipe which goes back under the car somewhere, to help you want to undo the small bolt on a bracket near the turbo on this pipe.
    Once you have the pipe undone, put the bolt from it separate as it's a different length to the cam chain cover ones and you don't want to mix them up.

    The lower horizontal bolts are the most difficult to undo, they're a bit awkward to get to, this is where the torx allen key will come in most useful.

    Once you've got the cover off carefully remove the gasket too.

    Then roll up some paper towel and put it in the gap between the lower cover and the cam chain, this will be useful for when you drop the bolts later on that hold the tensioner on and stop them going down into the engine, which if you do you'll cry.

    Now you need to lock the engine.

    To do this you need this kit:

    [​IMG]

    There are three tools from the kit you need, one is the pin that locks the cam sprocket, one locks the crank, and the other is used to turn the crank pulley.

    Jack the car up, and remove the under trays, look behind the sump, between the cross member and anti roll bar, on the drivers side, you will see a bung with an allen key drive, undo it, a little oil will come out but not much, a rag can catch it.
    Now you need to turn the engine to TDC, this is the tricky bit, I had the GF watching the cam sprocket and trying to insert the locking pin as I turned it over.

    This is what you're aiming for

    [​IMG]

    The cam locking tool can go in in one position when it's not quite TDC, then you turn it 90 degrees and it locks at TDC.
    There's a more thorough guide to do this in the workshop manual.

    Once you've got the engine locked, then undo the bolts holding the tensioner in place, these are damn tight, you will need to use a bit of tube or a deep socket on your torx allen key to get them undone, be very careful not to let the torx bit slip and round the bolt, if you do, you'll never get them out.

    The old one is a bit tricky to get out because of where the cam locking tool is, but there's a few bits that require christmas Chinese puzzle thinking, you'll find this getting the cam chain cover off too.

    Then it's time to install the new tensioner, it's a bit of a fiddle to get it in-between the chains, so take your time and get it right, don't force it, make sure you lift the chain over the ridges on the guides.

    You are supposed to renew the bolts that hold the tensioner on according to the workshop manual, I didn't as I didn't realise this, for the price of a few bolts I probably would do it. You should also renew the gasket but TPS provided me the wrong one so I had to reuse the original.
    To do all this I throughly cleaned up all the surfaces, which is a bit tricky on the engine, whatever you do, do NOT drop bits of the original sealant into the engine, it could block oil ways in the block and cause all sorts of damage. Very carefully use a stanley knife blade and a pair of long nose pliers to pull all the old sealant off the lower surface, then degrease it.
    Clean up the cam chain cover and degrease, if you're reusing the gasket, use a very good quality sealant on the cover, I used some that I had left from building a Volvo T5 engine, they use it for sealing the block together so it's pretty good stuff, but a decent loctite instant gasket would be good too, the original sealant seemed to be a type of silicone.
    Smear a very thin layer of sealant on all the surfaces, but on the lower surface you need a bead about 3mm thick, put it in the groove on the cover.

    Obviously remove the cam locking tool, then install the cover and slowly start putting everything back together, as haynes would say, replacement is the reverse of removal ;)

    Don't forget to take the crank locking tool out before you try to start it, or forget to take your ratchet off the crank pulley.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Good luck :)
     
    Mat196, B5NUT, martynash and 3 others like this.
  9. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    Thank you very much, that was very helpful.

    Az
     
  10. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    I know most people says they get a rattle from cold.. Mine doe not rattle from cold, Anyone one have a later 3.0 TDI with the "uprated" tensioners that does an intermittent rattle.

    When it does it it should like this..

    Starting up rattle for second, stops then does a 2nd rattle and that's it. Does not do it when cold though! To be fair its been like for the last 18 months and the car is still running fine. Its just really annoying
     
  11. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    That's exactly what mine does but only get the initial rattle not noticed the second one.
     
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  13. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    Dont suppose you have the tensioner part no?
     
  14. martynash

    martynash Ask ....I don't Bite....much!

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    The part No: S057109218K Cost me with trade discount and the dreaded £151.00 from TPS

    Mine is a 3.0 TDi Engine Code BKN
    It was a special order and was Non-returnable

    Nothing better than starting the car with no death rattle. I should say now that I have done such a successful repair, every car I hear start, I listen out for a rattle.....Do you think I'm Paranoid?

    Who said That?

    Regards

    Marty :blackrs4:

    PS: I bought a lock up kit to do the job and found we had the same kit in a workshop cupboard. So I have a brand new unused kit for sale at £56 (What I paid for it). If you're interested, PM me and we'll sort out postage and the like.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
    EddyP and jdp1962 like this.
  15. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    Its ok Im always listing out for strange rattles and noise with the car and my bike!

    I picked up a locking kit off eBay last night, garage has ordered the part off TPS this morning. Its my mates garage so I will know if he's spanking me on price of the part when I get the bill lol

    With the Turbo off there seems more room to do the tensioner.
     
  16. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    I may just take you up on that offer if someone else doesn't get there first in the near future.

    Azeem
     
  17. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    What year is your car Azeem?
     
  18. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    2006
     
  19. EddyP

    EddyP Member

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    Which bank are you doing? if it's the RH bank there's no need to remove the turbo, you're just creating more work and more gaskets to replace, risk of studs snapping etc...
     
  20. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    Turns out it was the Turbo that was shagged so it off anyway. Currently away getting reconditioned at this place Turbo Force, Repair, Recondition and Performance Rebuild of Turbochargers
    Doing the left hand side as you look at the engine (Bank 1) To be honest I dont even know if its Bank 1 or 2 thats rattling or something deeper down! Have never managed to pin point it exactly where the rattle comes from.
     
  21. martynash

    martynash Ask ....I don't Bite....much!

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    You are changing the right hand tensioner, the one which is on the left hand side standing in front of the car looking towards the back of the vehicle.

    Handed parts generally, are always described with you sitting in the drivers seat.
    Due to the timing chains being at the rear of the engine, it is as though the engine is fitted backwards. Which in essence it is.

    Not at all confusing. Thanks Audi

    Cheers


    Marty:blackrs4:
     
  22. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    Well car is back, turns out the main turbo problem was caused by carbon build up which in turn caused something else not to work! Anyway it was reconditioned all the same.
    Tensioner on bank one has been changed and no rattle on start up plus it sound quieter whilst ticking over. No signs of the old tensioner being faulty just by looking at it, however I guess it must have been.
    Had the auxiliary belt on the front changed as it didn't look great and the car had a full service whilst it was in.
    The car feels great to drive again, I guess that turbo had been deteriorating over a period of time and if you are using the car regularly you wont notice small drops in power over a long period

    Hopefully the rattle will stay away
     
    jdp1962 likes this.
  23. rizzini7

    rizzini7 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Glad to hear it's sorted mate
     
  24. martynash

    martynash Ask ....I don't Bite....much!

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    glad all is OK. Just out of interest, how much did that lot come to?

    Cheers

    Marty:blackrs4:
     
  25. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    I have used the car all day today and not one single rattle, £600 for all the work Tensioner, v belt, turbo recon plus full service inc the fuel filter which I'm happy with.
     
  26. rizzini7

    rizzini7 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    Unwanted cost I'm sure. But doesn't sound to bad. Glad it's fixed
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  27. joinerman

    joinerman Well-Known Member

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    Sounds very reasonable to me.
     
  28. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    Is that price just for the parts or is there some labour included in it? Really good price nevertheless. How much was the recon if you don't mind me asking? Was it actually faulty or was there just carbon build up? I may just do the RH tensioner on bank 1 and clean out the turbocharger myself.

    Glad yours is sorted anyway, Azeem.
     
  29. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    Turbo was not actually broken so just needed a clean and I do believe some new bits went in. Price was a pound notes job :thumbsup:
     
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  30. jdp1962

    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Gold Supporter Team Tornado Audi S4 Black Edition quattro S tronic

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  31. Jimbo.King

    Jimbo.King Active Member

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    Hi all, I was just looking on Elsawin to get torque settings etc and came across some info that would be useful to the thread:-
    [​IMG]

    I have looked at the replacement tensioner that I picked up yesterday from the dealers and it's the same part no as the one listed in the tech solution:-
    [​IMG]

    I also had a look to see if the rubber bump stop was there too and it was:-
    [​IMG]

    I'm hoping to get the job done tomorrow afternoon so if anyone requires any more pics of doing the job just give me a shout before then and I'll take some and post them up.

    Also a big thanks Eddyp for the write up and Mr-C for the timing pin kit.
     
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  32. A4_MaJiK

    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    Are you also going to replace the tensioner or simply the guide rail?

    Let us know how you get on and also if it helps engine noise at idle.

    Azeem.
     
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  34. martynash

    martynash Ask ....I don't Bite....much!

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    Hi Guys
    I notice the replacement chain slipper in the photos below is yellow. The one I have just replaced was white (part No: S057109218K). I
    hope this means I have replaced with the modified unit and not just a replacement of the same faulty one or are we suggesting there is another component (the guide rail) which is also controlled by the oil pressure in another location?

    Please verify as I have become paranoid again

    Cheers

    Marty:blackrs4:
     
  35. Jimbo.King

    Jimbo.King Active Member

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    I'll be replacing the whole unit as I have received it from Audi.
    Here's a pic of the oil feed side :-
    [​IMG]
    The slippers on this look more white than yellow, I wouldn't worry too much about the illustration colours as long as the part numbers right your okay.
     
  36. joinerman

    joinerman Well-Known Member

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    Good info on this thread, i to have the death rattle, how do i print off this whole thread ?
     
  37. Jimbo.King

    Jimbo.King Active Member

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    Job all done and took approx 3hrs, it sounds a lot better on start up and ticking over, even driving it hard it sounds less noisy, tried starting whilst warm a couple of times with no rattle, I suppose only time will tell.
    [​IMG]

    The old units have a J on the end of the part number and the new ones a K so you've definately fit the right one.
    [​IMG]
     
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  38. martynash

    martynash Ask ....I don't Bite....much!

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    Hi Jimbo
    Thank god for that. You had me going there for a moment.
    I have done over 2500 miles now since the replacement and all still sounds great.
    I see you have the gasket there in the picture. Did you replace that? Audi said there wasn't one so I cleaned and replaced with RTV silicon. Did the job a treat with no leaks.

    This and "The Death Rattle" thread have helped me tremendously and sorted an issue that Audi would have charged a small fortune to rectify. I am glad that my and others experience and expertise has allowed several of you replace these tensioners and silence the Death Rattle on start up.
    Thanks for all your advice and comments

    Best Regards

    Marty :blackrs4:
     
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  39. Mr-C

    Mr-C Active Member

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    Glad to hear your rattle has gone. All good stuff
     
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  40. Jimbo.King

    Jimbo.King Active Member

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    Hi, I did replace the metal gasket, it's on there ETKA system that Audi use for parts, there's no gasket tho where it joins to the other timing cover below, sealant needed there, as long as there's no leaks your on a winner.
     
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  41. Jimbo.King

    Jimbo.King Active Member

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    Part numbers here:-
    [​IMG]

    Bolts need to be changed as there are stretch bolts, torque to 5Nm then 90 degrees.
     
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  42. EddyP

    EddyP Member

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    Glad to see that this thread has helped others fix the problem, the main reason for putting this up was down to a lack of info anywhere, now it seems everyone is getting their rattles fixed, great stuff!!
     
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  43. martynash

    martynash Ask ....I don't Bite....much!

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    I second that......Fixed mine and it did 138 mph today so happy days all round.

    Thanks to all who have contributed

    Regards

    Marty:blackrs4:
     

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