Personalized plates and legalities

Pii

Registered User
Would the DVLA not just issue a new number relating to the age of the car in the same way as they do when I transfer my personal plate to a new car.

You could also get a £60 fixed penalty fine for displaying an illegal number plate.

Well after all this info the decision is ultimately down to the individual - if they want to take it and risk the penalties after all.
 

a3_dan

Registered User
Wow this thread really has progressed since I last had a peak last night.

Im in two minds what to do now, I would like to have the plate that I found, but at the same time, no matter how rare it is, I would just find it so embarrassing to get pulled over, and knowing my luck, it would be when I have a nice bit of skirt on the passenger seat! lol

Hmm and whats this about making your car a Q plate? Never heard of this before?!

Arghh Decisions decisions!!
 

Doms

Registered User
without meaning to sound like a rebel some of the laws in this country are stupid, pointless and waste time. police shouldn't be pulling people for tints or silly lettering on their plate, they should be out trying to find the cars that have been stolen or are being driven without insurance or by those who are unable to drive in a safe manner. but no, they want to find those who don't have the correct spacing on their plates. f'ing ridiculous.

The Police rely on ANPR in their cars and at fixed/mobile roadside locations so by making sure number plates are correct is in a way helping catch stolen vehicles or cars with no insurance.
 

sub39h

Registered User
The Police rely on ANPR in their cars and at fixed/mobile roadside locations so by making sure number plates are correct is in a way helping catch stolen vehicles or cars with no insurance.

then they shouldn't rely on sh!t technology. a basic computer with OCR can read a multitude of fonts and sizes, with and without spacing. what the hell is wrong with their computers then? reading 7 digits and a space in any order shouldn't be beyond the abilities of the computers we pay £££ of taxes to fund.
 

A3chase

Registered User
At the end of the day you only live once. you cant go through life worrying if your going to get a slapped wrist, putting a space incorrectly isnt gonna hurt anybody but be prepare for hassle. i personally have a digit and space the wrong way round and have had police behind me without saying anything but when i was parked in a car park a copper did 'inform' me that it was illegal and to get it changed.
 

h5djr

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i completely disagree with you. rules on numberplates in this country are petty and stupid. in the US you don't get illegal plates because you can have whatever letter and number combo you want. it's meant as a unique identifier so what the hell does it matter if it conforms to an arbitrary set of orders like XX11 XXX or X111 XXX or XXX 111X?

without meaning to sound like a rebel some of the laws in this country are stupid, pointless and waste time. police shouldn't be pulling people for tints or silly lettering on their plate, they should be out trying to find the cars that have been stolen or are being driven without insurance or by those who are unable to drive in a safe manner. but no, they want to find those who don't have the correct spacing on their plates. f'ing ridiculous.

and i'm sure many of you have never had the joy of being pulled over purely because you're a young asian and in a nice car. traffic cops can f*ck off.

The rules relating to number plates are there to make them easy and straight forward to read by, for example, a witness to a hit and run accident. Some minor adjustments to the spacing on number plates would make very little difference but some make the correct reading of the plate very difficult. Rather that to have to judge each one on it's merits there is a set of rules which apply to all plates and any company who makes up an illegal number plate can be suject to a £5000 fine.

Just about every European country does not allow messing about with the typeface size and spacing of their number plates and the UK is part of Europe and not yet part of the US. Most European countries get round the problem by having the licencing authority making the plates and selling them to the owner of the vehicle rather than plates being made up by hundreds of different places. In most cases the plate refers to the current owner (an automatic private plate) rather than the vehicle and when a vehicle is sold the plate is removed and put on that owners replacement car, whether it's new or used. This allows for easy tracing of the current owner of the vehicle rather than applying to the actual vehicle. The VIN number identifies the vehicle rather than the number plate.
 
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sub39h

Registered User
my point about the US is that if you could have whatever letter and number combo you wanted people wouldn't be spacing their plates illegally. you cannot argue that the numberplate is used as an identifier for the vehicle (and hence any potential driver of said vehicle) because as others have said the issue with illegal spacing and different typefaces affects APNC's ability to read the plate. what other reason would they have for wanting to read the plate other than wanting to find out which car is responsible for the offence and tracking down the driver?

also you cannot categorically say that altering the spacing has a negative effect on people's ability to read it. if you are trying, i'd like your proof backed up with MRI brain scan evidence showing it, alongside subjective evidence from test subjects. i'd be inclined to argue the opposite in fact. my plate clearly reads as Dr (first initial) (surname) and considering that the vast vast majority of people wish to alter the spacing to give added meaning to the plate would mean it would be EASIER to read.

additionally, odd plates are more likely to be stored as long term memory. for example, i bet you can't remember what you had for dinner at home one week ago, but if you went out to dinner i bet you DO remember. i saw a BMW 3 Series about 5 years ago with the plate E3 BAL, but the E and 3 spaced so closely so it looked like an 8 and read 8 BAL[L]. i'll never forget that plate, and makes the car MORE identifiable because it doesn't conform.
 
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mitch78

Registered User
No, but it is only £30 fine for not displaying a plate at all.
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
All I know is that I sometimes follow a car and I cannot work out instantly what the registration number is because someone has played around with the spacing. It easy on a standard number plate. As I said some spacing changes have little effect on readability where as some can make it difficult. I'm sure in the great US you cannot have any number you want as what happens if someone else is already using that number. Two vehicles or owners with the same number!! Personally I much prefer the European method of standardised plates. In the UK it is possible to get a plate which means something to you without necessarily having to resort to messing up the spacing.

I suppose in an ideal world I would choose DR 1 but even if it is available there is no way I could afford it. Too many well off doctors around. So when the DVLA originally allowed you to choose a new plate when they were issued back in August 1969 I chose H5 DJR which cost me just £230 including the transfer fee. My wife has a matching H5 JHR on her car. I don't have a middle initial so my plate is made up as DJR for Dave and Jenny Robinson. I once had a scooter and had H5 DRX on that. I'm sure there must be lots of old style numbers still available from the DVLA.
 

fgaffney

Registered User
... and the car being reregistered on a Q plate. Just that last item in the list can easily cost you more than the fine, when you come to sell the car.

'Q' plate??? Surely the vehicle would be re-assigned it's original registration number before the cherished transfer took place? I've transferred my plate numerous times over the past 20 years and each time the orginal registration has always been re-assigned to my outgoing vehicle. I can't see DVLA giving you a 'Q' plate for a factory built vehicle which has been first registered in the UK?
 

h5djr

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Gold Supporter
No, but it is only £30 fine for not displaying a plate at all.

Is it still only £30 because I know the fixed penalty fine for a re-arranged number is now £60. If it's only £30 it's cheaper that a fixed penalty from a speed camera and no points. Perhaps we should all take our number plates off!!
 

h5djr

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Gold Supporter
'Q' plate??? Surely the vehicle would be re-assigned it's original registration number before the cherished transfer took place? I've transferred my plate numerous times over the past 20 years and each time the orginal registration has always been re-assigned to my outgoing vehicle. I can't see DVLA giving you a 'Q' plate for a factory built vehicle which has been first registered in the UK?

Yes I'm the same. I've transfered my number across nine different cars since 1969 and in every case the DVLA have just issued a new number related to the cars age. In all but one case the receiving car was never given a number and was registered from new with my personal number. When I sold or traded in they just issued a brand new number related to the car's age. I cannot remember the last time I saw a 'Q' plate on a car.
 

mitch78

Registered User
'Q' plate??? Surely the vehicle would be re-assigned it's original registration number before the cherished transfer took place? I've transferred my plate numerous times over the past 20 years and each time the orginal registration has always been re-assigned to my outgoing vehicle. I can't see DVLA giving you a 'Q' plate for a factory built vehicle which has been first registered in the UK?

Like I said before, I agree with you, but have been informed otherwise. I always thought the Q was to designate unknown origins of the vehicle, e.g. a kit car using a variety of parts from different vehicles, meaning no certainty of the car's origin or age, but apparently they've done it as punishment too.

Is it still only £30 because I know the fixed penalty fine for a re-arranged number is now £60. If it's only £30 it's cheaper that a fixed penalty from a speed camera and no points. Perhaps we should all take our number plates off!!

My thoughts exactly. Stupid system.
 

maninthestreet

Registered User
then they shouldn't rely on sh!t technology. a basic computer with OCR can read a multitude of fonts and sizes, with and without spacing. what the hell is wrong with their computers then? reading 7 digits and a space in any order shouldn't be beyond the abilities of the computers we pay £££ of taxes to fund.

So this basic computer with OCR can read these multitude of fonts and sizes whilst they are moving at considerable speed, from distances of many metres, at an offset angle??
 

h5djr

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Gold Supporter
Like I said before, I agree with you, but have been informed otherwise. I always thought the Q was to designate unknown origins of the vehicle, e.g. a kit car using a variety of parts from different vehicles, meaning no certainty of the car's origin or age, but apparently they've done it as punishment too.

Now every man and his dog seems to have a personal plate perhaps a 'Q' plate could become a new status symbol.
 

craig32

Registered User
As far as status symbols go, a couple of things I think are cool are when you see a nice car in the UK on monaco plates or Jersey plates- something a bit different and cool.

Please no-one make a statement about informing the DVLA about bringing over a foreign car for more than 6months (or whatever it is) etc etc I'm just saying I think it looks cool!

Something else really cool are diplomatic plates, like 789 D 321 wish I was eligible for one :(
 

luckydave

Registered User
Nothing wrong with a Q plate! It's the ultimate private plate, money can't buy one and they can't be transfered!
 

PaulAr

S3 (8P)
Ive just received a fixed penalty via post for some irregular spacing on my number plate.

I wasnt pulled over and warned, no discretion, no lecture, just a letter on the mat.

Once Ive completed the declaration confirming the driver the fine will follow.
How much is it BTW? Thankfully its non endorsable.

Thats another villain put in his place.
Nice to see resource is being used to sort the bad guys out.
 

sub39h

Registered User
Ive just received a fixed penalty via post for some irregular spacing on my number plate.

I wasnt pulled over and warned, no discretion, no lecture, just a letter on the mat.

Once Ive completed the declaration confirming the driver the fine will follow.
How much is it BTW? Thankfully its non endorsable.

Thats another villain put in his place.
Nice to see resource is being used to sort the bad guys out.

That sucks. How's your plate spaced?

Agreed about the catching bad guys rant. Cops aren't being massively helpful about the fact my car was keyed... I swear the innocent motorist gets it in the neck worse than the bad guys in this country.
 

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I have slightly iffy spacing on my plate, it wasnt a lot of money so took the chance.
It doesnt jump out as being illegal or have any wacky italics etc however.

Its been on 4 yrs now and no problems, maybe thats the kiss of death but I have set of properly spaced places in the garage so if Im pulled then I will put them on then.
Until then i will ride my luck.

cheers
Paul

Ive just received a fixed penalty via post for some irregular spacing on my number plate.

I wasnt pulled over and warned, no discretion, no lecture, just a letter on the mat.

Once Ive completed the declaration confirming the driver the fine will follow.
How much is it BTW? Thankfully its non endorsable.

Thats another villain put in his place.
Nice to see resource is being used to sort the bad guys out.

Speechless.

My condolences.
 

PaulAr

S3 (8P)
That sucks. How's your plate spaced?

Agreed about the catching bad guys rant. Cops aren't being massively helpful about the fact my car was keyed... I swear the innocent motorist gets it in the neck worse than the bad guys in this country.

The spacing should be.

`X1 ABC`

However the `A` has been shoved over slightly by a few mm.

Its obviously not a problem for the ANPR as they managed to read it and get a fine to my house.

I knew the risk but had expected some old fashioned descretion.
Just seems so petty, certainly didnt expect a fine without warning.

The biggest PITA is getting the time to pull the old ones off, clean the bumper and get the new ones on and lined up.

Apparently its also ILEGAL to stick the new ones over the old ones??
That would have been easier as the old ones have a good hold and are nice and secure.

Looks like my crime spree is over!

The public is so much safer now Ive been `protected` and `served` by my Police local force.
You can all sleep east chaps, another villian has been captured and releived of £60.
Im sure it will be put to good use.

Cheers
Paul
 

sub39h

Registered User
never fear lads! another criminal has been safely reprimanded by the Boys in Blue.

got pulled for my numberplate today. saying the plates are in the boot didn't work - straight £60 fine.

hope you all feel protected. stellar job by the police...

S.
 

PilotAudi

Guest
The whole number plate thing is an issue and the Plods have more PPs on their private cars than many in my experience... BUT

The law is the law and ANPR systems are there for a purpose. Personally I don't see much point in private numbers, my memory is fine and they look a bit sad in my eyes....BUT

it's your money you are spending and the transfer fees make a great contribution to our Public services... Just tell the plod who stops you next time that your PP fees pay his wages and see what happens ;-)
 

sub39h

Registered User
no because they pay mine too in a sense lol

my issue is that he's wasting taxpayer money going after an otherwise law-abiding citizen - someone who's recently handed a wallet and it's contents back to it's rightful owner. i'm not the bad guy and the cops shouldn't be wasting their time on me, yet they managed to track me down and didn't manage to track down the ***** who keyed my car recently.

ANPR systems should be better equipped to read other fonts, and numberplates shouldn't be so stupidly rigid in their types. who cares if it's

X123 ABC or
XY12 ABC or
ABC 123X

it's irrelevant. we should be allowed to pick our own combo of letters and numbers then this wouldn't be an issue. an identifier is an identifier. it doesn't matter what order the letters and numbers are in.
 
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sub39h

Registered User
(as a side note, he followed me for about two miles. i reckon he was gonna book me for something, and had the numberplate as a back up - i didn't do anything wrong so he booked me for that instead. if he intended to stop me for my plate he should have done right away.)
 

PilotAudi

Guest
Hi Sub... I got fined £165 after being caught doing 36mph in a 30 limit AND 4 Points.. caught by a speed camera.. I hate the sneekyness of it all..

I was also flagged down by a young 6i7 on a moped in 1989 in a 30 limit to be told I was doing 32mph... WTF

It does matter what order the numbers are in!!!! Managers might start doing it to your salary... Sorry not £42312 a year anymore same numbers = £12324
 

sub39h

Registered User
salary's not quite the same, as i am sure you can appreciate lol.

also speeding is a slightly different kettle of fish. i've been done for speeding before, but that's kinda fair enough really. there's usually a reason for the speed limits and they're usually fairly sensible.

the only exception is the motorway which should have a higher speed limit i feel, but the police seem to exercise common sense here so it's not too bad there either.
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
no because they pay mine too in a sense lol

my issue is that he's wasting taxpayer money going after an otherwise law-abiding citizen - someone who's recently handed a wallet and it's contents back to it's rightful owner. i'm not the bad guy and the cops shouldn't be wasting their time on me, yet they managed to track me down and didn't manage to track down the ***** who keyed my car recently.

ANPR systems should be better equipped to read other fonts, and numberplates shouldn't be so stupidly rigid in their types. who cares if it's

X123 ABC or
XY12 ABC or
ABC 123X

it's irrelevant. we should be allowed to pick our own combo of letters and numbers then this wouldn't be an issue. an identifier is an identifier. it doesn't matter what order the letters and numbers are in.

In most other European counties the licencing authority has a number plate made and issues it to you (which you still have to pay for) so there is no chance to mess around with the typeface or the spacing or anything else and they still manage to enjoy their cars. In Germany and some other countries the number applies to the driver and not the car and are issued by the authorities where you live. If you move to another town you have to re-register and get a completely new number. When you sell a car you keep the plates and the number and put them on your new car.

Driver's in UK seem to thing they have a God given right to do just as they please with no reference to the law relating to number plates. I have a personalised number plate on my car as does my wife but they are both of the correct typeface and spacing etc. Both plates mean something to us and I'm not worried whether they mean anything to any one else.

By all means have a personalised plate if that's how you wish to spend your money but don't be a mug and break the law over it. I glad to see that the police are at last clamping down on this silly practise.
 
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PilotAudi

Guest
Well put Dave R on the legal side but I still don't get PP's. Most of them seem to be trying to hide the age of the car or are for folks who can't remember their plate such as -

1 4 GOT
 

sub39h

Registered User
In most other European counties the licencing authority has a number plate made and issues it to you (which you still have to pay for) so there is no chance to mess around with the typeface or the spacing or anything else and they still manage to enjoy their cars. In Germany and some other countries the number applies to the driver and not the car and are issued by the authorities where you live. If you move to another town you have to re-register and get a completely new number. When you sell a car you keep the plates and the number and put them on your new car.

Driver's in UK seem to thing they have a God given right to do just as they please with no reference to the law relating to number plates. I have a personalised number plate on my car as does my wife but they are both of the correct typeface and spacing etc. Both plates mean something to us and I'm not worried whether they mean anything to any one else.

By all means have a personalised plate if that's how you wish to spend your money but don't be a mug and break the law over it. I glad to see that the police are at last clamping down on this silly practise.

i agree that the law is the law. that's not what my issue is. what my issue is is that it's an arbitrary law. you've said an identifier is issued to you - fine. the point is that it's an irrelevant sequence of letters and numbers. what do the police care if the letters in question have meaning to me or not? they might as well let us choose our own rather than picking a silly system which people try to abuse. it'd make no difference to them whatsoever.

the plate was still of the correct typeface and size, only the spacing was off. if the ANPR can't read that then what about a stolen car that has it's mark obscured slightly by snow or whatever? the criminals get off free because of a rubbish camera system? that, as far as i'm concerned, is not justification. they should either have more police on the roads trying to catch real criminals, or get better cameras and leave people like me alone.

but no, as per usual the government wants to squeeze the innocent motorist as hard as it can. i am annoyed about this - rightly or wrongly is open to debate. but as far as i'm concerned no police effort was made trying to find the guy who keyed my car, yet they found me easily enough. they've got their priorities wrong. they're not protecting anyone pulling over a doctor with a slightly odd number plate.
 

PilotAudi

Guest
Doctors are well known for having bad handwriting why should their No Plates be any different.. ;-)
 

sub39h

Registered User
Lol.

Correct size and font type matey
 

sub39h

Registered User
Lol.

Correct size and font type matey
 

PaulAr

S3 (8P)
If my spacing was such an issue for ANPR then how was it read by the camera van and a letter sent to my house with 3 days?
The ANPR arguement is flawed in this respect.

I know some one who was recently stopped for a spacing `problem` and the copper exercised descretion and just gave a warning. That was enough, that person has changed the plate, no paperwork, no fine, no ones time wasted, no scameras.

You can be arrested for being drunk and fighting outside a pub and be fined £50.

So why a £60 fine for a perfectly legible number plate with subtle spacing?

Its a complete **** take, the motorist continues to be clobbered and relieved of its cash.

Paul
 
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PilotAudi

Guest
Lol.

Correct size and font type matey

Bit like the old joke about the only people who could read Doctors handwriting were Chemists (prescriptions)... I suppose if the Plods took their Speed Camera Photos into Boots to be developed if they can't read them there would be a Chemist readily on hand. ;-).

Seriously the law is the law and making PPs read in any other way than DVLA intended is deliberately breaking the law (any law) deserves to be stopped. If laws are wrong we the Public have the opportunity to change through our Politicians although with this Coalition lot in power I don't hold out any hope of that whatsoever!
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
If my spacing was such an issue for ANPR then how was it read by the camera van and a letter sent to my house with 3 days?
The ANPR arguement is flawed in this respect.

I know some one who was recently stopped for a spacing `problem` and the copper exercised descretion and just gave a warning. That was enough, that person has changed the plate, no paperwork, no fine, no ones time wasted, no scameras.

You can be arrested for being drunk and fighting outside a pub and be fined £50.

So why a £60 fine for a perfectly legible number plate with subtle spacing?

Its a complete **** take, the motorist continues to be clobbered and relieved of its cash.

Paul

As I understand it, in most cases of illegal number plates, the police will issue you with a notice which requires you to get a correct plate fixed and take your car to an MOT testing station for it to be checked and then take the form they issue to a Police Station.

Anyone been dealt with in the manner?
 

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You can be arrested for being drunk and fighting outside a pub and be fined £50.

So why a £60 fine for a perfectly legible number plate with subtle spacing?

The law says you can have sex at 16, but not watch porn until you are 18.

The moral of this story......... Laws are dumb.
 

PilotAudi

Guest
I know someone with a BMW with PP's .. He failed his MOT on number plates, took it back with new plates and failed again because it didn't have a Postcode on the new plates... I could not help but laugh!!! The Law is an *** I agree but it is the Law!!
 

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I know someone with a BMW with PP's .. He failed his MOT on number plates, took it back with new plates and failed again because it didn't have a Postcode on the new plates... I could not help but laugh!!!

:lmfao:

If that was me, my next question would've been... "You got a permanent marker I can borrow for a sec please mate?"
 
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