Parking Brake Close Call, And A Warning To All.

[Flugel Hound]

Had the Audi since December and the only issue is the Automatic Parking brake. I have both buttons hill hold and Auto Handbrake, ie day to day I just forget the handbrake function and it looks after itself. And it works a treat. However i nearly **** myself the other day to find the car had rolled out of its parking bay and was atop a hill ready to roll down smashing into a customers factory and probably totalling the car in the process not to mention taking out a few people if they happened to get in the way.

What had gone wrong, well driver error. Prior to parking up I had nipped out the car to talk with security jumped back into park up, but not needing to put my seat belt on DISABLED the auto park button. Jumped out the car and headed off to do my business. YES i had forgotten to reapply that darn Auto Brake button. Twice now ive forgot to do this.

Yes I should apply a bit steering lock, yes I should leave in gear.

Fact is my brain is now programmed to do whats above.
A warning sound should come on when you leave the car, like when you leave the lights on.

Any you guys done the same?

 

[phil1824]

Well done for sharing. Glad it worked out ok

 

[Flugel Hound]

Luckily between the inclined parking bay and the hill was a level road, this slowed the car enough not to proceed further. I was lucky that day.

 

[Jerodequin]

As I don't have mine yet (comes on Monday!) I don't fully understand what it was you did that lead to the handbrake not engaging - was it because you were moving the car with no seatbelt on or was it something else?! Thanks... J

 

[JohnM100]

Am a bit worried about this too so I always keep my foot on the brake pedal until I hear and feel it fall away under my foot as the handbrake is applied & the handbrake icon in DIS turns red.

John.

 

[Liquidfusion-S3]

Lesson learned, enough said.

 

[veeeight]

I'm confused by the terminology.

There are 2 switches, correct ?

Electronic Park Brake Switch
Hold Assist Switch

If Hold Assist is "on" this will automatically apply the EPB for you ..... Unless .... ?

.... if you take your seatbelt off, it switches off Hold Assist?

Which in turn won't automatically apply the EPB?

Have I got this right?

 

[monopole]

tl;dr

S tronic. Win.

 

[veeeight]

No Hold Assist.

Win

 

[Liquidfusion-S3]

Parking brake

Win

 

[monkeyhanger]

I'm confused by the terminology.

There are 2 switches, correct ?

Electronic Park Brake Switch
Hold Assist Switch

If Hold Assist is "on" this will automatically apply the EPB for you ..... Unless .... ?

.... if you take your seatbelt off, it switches off Hold Assist?

Which in turn won't automatically apply the EPB?

Have I got this right?

On the assumption that Audi use the same 2 button system as the MK7 Golf when you spec hill hold assist (you get the system that just lets go after 2 seconds if you didn't spec?):-

When Hold assist is on, it's just nipping the brakes until you pull away, when you turn the ignition off (and have left the EPB switch active), the brakes stop nipping and a motor winds the brakes clamped solid on something like a worm gear(you can hear the motor). Leave the EPB off and turn the ignition off, the hill hold stops nipping the brakes and the car can roll. The system does take a few days to get used to, for about a week after getting my Golf GTD I was reaching for the imaginary handbrake handle and the hold assist provides a little resistance before it lets go when you pull away - no more creeping forward in traffic with just a gentle lift of the clutch and almost no throttle, you end up using more throttle to pull away gently than you're probably used to.

When you take your seatbelt off to look over your shoulder and engage reverse, the hill hold wont disengage unless you hold the brake pedal down first before applying the throttle. A few times I forgot this point and wondered why the hell the car would nt let me go backwards after stopping, engaging reverse and the car not letting me go anywhere.

 

[Flugel Hound]

I'm confused by the terminology.

There are 2 switches, correct ?

Electronic Park Brake Switch
Hold Assist Switch

If Hold Assist is "on" this will automatically apply the EPB for you ..... Unless .... ?

.... if you take your seatbelt off, it switches off Hold Assist?

Which in turn won't automatically apply the EPB?

Have I got this right?

Yep two switches.
I tried to pull away without my seatbelt on as I was manoeuvring the car, but it rightly would not release the park brake. So I forced the park brake off by using the switch. I pulled forward into the parking space turned off the engine and jumped out, shut and locked the door. (to clarify I did not re-engage the parking brake because my brain is no longer used to doing this action).

There is another more common scenario that can catch you out the same way.
Imagine reversing into a parking slot that is on an incline ie you are reversing down hill into the slot. As you inch back you dab the brake, but the hill hold engages which mean your now stopped, so to reverse more you need to apply revs n clutch to pull away backwards but this is dodgy as you near the end of the slot. It would be better just to free-wheel back dabbing the brake for control. To do this you need to release the parking brake function. You then get into the space but forget to re-engage the parking functions for the future.

 

[Relliott6879]

Reading all this, I'm glad my car isn't coming with this Hold Assist thing, it sounds like far more trouble than it's worth.

To be honest, I can't say I'm thrilled about the idea of an electronic parking brake either, especially as it appears the ignition needs to be on to activate it, but these seem to be the way a lot of manufacturers are now going. I have to confess, I'm a luddite who prefers a 'gert big' handbrake that you can heave on!

On the plus side, I suppose the days of stretched and/or seized handbrake cables will now be just a memory.

 

[veeeight]

KISS. No Hold Assist.

 

[monopole]

To be honest, I can't say I'm thrilled about the idea of an electronic parking brake either, especially as it appears the ignition needs to be on to activate it

o rly, can anyone confirm this before I go to my car and check?

 

[veeeight]

^ you can apply park brake with ignition on or off

But you can only take park brake off with ignition on.

And if you have a fully discharged battery, you're not going anywhere if you applied it previously.

 

[Liquidfusion-S3]

Anyone tried the electronic hand brake whilst the car is moving? How does it react?

 

[veeeight]

Anyone tried the electronic hand brake whilst the car is moving? How does it react?

Everyone should try this at least once:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/a3-brakes-and-warnings.210651/#post-2144684

 

[monkeyhanger]

Reading all this, I'm glad my car isn't coming with this Hold Assist thing, it sounds like far more trouble than it's worth.

To be honest, I can't say I'm thrilled about the idea of an electronic parking brake either, especially as it appears the ignition needs to be on to activate it

Are you worried about the brake coming off on it's own with an electrical fault? It can't do that, when the parking brake is on, the braking system is mechanically wound on, it cant simply unclamp like the handbrakes of old could if a cable snapped. As said before though, there's no moving a car with the EPB engaged and a flat battery.

When parked on an uphill slope you need far more throttle to pull away without the risk of stalling the car than would be required with the manual manipulation of a proper old handbrake, releasing it gradually as you give it a bit of throttle. The amount of throttle you have to give to move off from an uphill slope now makes it look like you cant drive properly, to those who've never encountered a system like the new one.

I really disliked the system when I first got my car, now I tolerate it. Not something I really like.The truly solid as a rock handbrake on when you leave the car is reassuring, but when the hill hold intervenes indiscretely when you're doing a delicate parking maneuvre or holds on a little too tightly when you are moving off it does provoke some feelings of wishing you didn't have it. Another feature more suited to those who cannot drive properly.

 

[veeeight]

When parked on an uphill slope you need far more throttle to pull away without the risk of stalling the car than would be required with the manual manipulation of a proper old handbrake, releasing it gradually as you give it a bit of throttle. The amount of throttle you have to give to move off from an uphill slope now makes it look like you cant drive properly, to those who've never encountered a system like the new one.

I (obviously) have EPB, but never have to give the throttle any more revs than a mere tickle to get the EPB to disengage.

Are you maybe describing the action of the Hold Assist option, where you definitely need more revs to move off? Because with my car, overcoming the EPB with throttle and seatbelt on, is not anything like you are describing.

 

[monkeyhanger]

^Yes, the hillhold is a ****** when parked uphill. My wife's mam lives on a very steep street, I drive down the bottom of her road, turn the car around and have the car pointing up a very steep hill opposite her house when I park. I have to pull away with at least 3000 revs to ensure the hillhold disengages cleanly, considering i'm also overcoming the hill itself. I feel a right idiot pulling away and revving the tits off the car as I do so. If you had the old style of a physical cable and handle style hand brake, you can ease the handbrake off to the point just before you'd start to roll backwards and have to give less throttle to move off up the slope. We've swapped an analogue system with a huge variety of incremental grips for one that is either on or off. It's on and then you have to give the car a load of revs to not only be going forward up a steep hill but to do it against the hillhold which is temporarily giving the brakes a strong grip, and then nothing when it disengages and you then have the balancing act of either shooting forward faster than you'd like, or easing off the throttle, but not so much that you're in danger of stalling. On the flat or downhill it's not a bother

 

[veeeight]

Dave @h5djr will be along in a minute to say he just switches off Hold Assist in those situations!

 

[monkeyhanger]

I had the old "2 seconds off the brakes and you roll" system of hill hold in the old Scirocco, with the reassurance of a ye olde handbrake lever, the amount of throttle needed to overcome the bite of the 2 second system in the old car is noticeably less less than that needed to overcome the clamp of the newer hillhold system (in my car at least).

 

[h5djr]

Dave @h5djr will be along in a minute to say he just switches off Hold Assist in those situations!

Just to keep everyone happy - I have my Hold Assist turned off all the time

 

[Relliott6879]

^ you can apply park brake with ignition on or off

But you can only take park brake off with ignition on.

And if you have a fully discharged battery, you're not going anywhere if you applied it previously.

Are you worried about the brake coming off on it's own with an electrical fault? It can't do that, when the parking brake is on, the braking system is mechanically wound on, it cant simply unclamp like the handbrakes of old could if a cable snapped. As said before though, there's no moving a car with the EPB engaged and a flat battery.

Good to know. For some reason I thought I'd read elsewhere on the forum that if you turned the ignition off having forgotten to apply the EPB, you couldn't then do so without first turning the ignition back on. It's not something my wife or I have ever had on any car, so I daresay it will take some getting used to. I just hope it doesn't detract from our enjoyment of what sounds like it's going to be a fantastic car.

 

[steeve]

EPB works very well, if you apply it that is. I've not had any issues, I wouldn't have the hill hold so I'm not reliant on that for preventing the car from rolling away..........................

 

[veeeight]

Just to be pedantic here for a moment.....



Hill Hold - comes as standard on all 8V A3's and S3's, both Manual and DSG. This gives you around 2 seconds of holding on a slope, while you transfer your foot from the brake pedal to the accelerator.

(Hill) Hold Assist (UH2) - is a £90 option, and will hold your car on the footbrake indefinitely (or transfer it to the EPB), and will automatically apply the EPB for you when parked up (in most situations)......


More:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/hill-hold-assist-hha.209890/


With just the standard EPB (no UH2 Hold Assist Option) - there are occasions when it will automatically apply the EPB brake for you, e.g.: get out of the car in "P", remove key and leave the door open for more than 20 seconds - EPB will apply. Open the door while in "D" under 5km/h - EPB will apply itself.



edit:
Interestingly, there is a bit in the manual that says from time to time, you will hear the EPB whirr away, doing a "self test" when the car is switched off.....

 

[snakehips]

^ you can apply park brake with ignition on or off

But you can only take park brake off with ignition on.

And if you have a fully discharged battery, you're not going anywhere if you applied it previously.

In my experience I can only apply the EPB within a few seconds of having turned off the ignition. After than it doesn't activate. Same for sunroof and windows. Not crucial for me though, having an auto box.

 

[Daz Auto]

From the Audi UK website...

https://www.audi.co.uk/glossary/a/audi-hold-assist.html

"Audi hold assist keeps the car stationary once it's stopped and automatically prevents it from rolling on uphill and downhill gradients. During stops on uphill and downhill gradients, Audi hold assist holds the car stationary for as long as needed. It's activated by pressing a button and allows the driver to set the car in motion smoothly without having to use the handbrake at all. If the vehicle remains stationary for a long period with Audi hold assist active, the system automatically switches over to the electromechanical parking brake.There's no need to operate the handbrake to pull away.

Audi hold assist is part of the ABS-ESP control system. After you release the brake pedal, the hydraulic pressure is maintained, meaning the hydraulic system keeps the brake pads pressed against the brake discs at the front and rear. During this process, the electromechanical parking brake is not in operation. The means a quicker reaction time, less noise and less braking effect at all four wheels, and enhanced comfort. Audi hold assist is only available in conjunction with the electromechanical parking brake."

 

[Daz Auto]

Any you guys done the same?

My wife did something similar in her old car. Put the mechanical handbrake on and walked away. As the brakes cooled the handbrake lost contact and the car started down the hill. Luckily she got to it in time.

There seems to be a lot of confusion on this thread between the parking/hand brake and what Hill Hold Assist does.

I personally think HHA is a good option to have. It works very well with the Stronic. Though we both deactivate it for parking.

So basically the parking brake was manually disactivated and did not automatically activate like it normally does.

Does this mean - if the parking brake is manually deactivated, it has to be manually activated again?

 

[veeeight]

If driving a S-tronic, I prefer not using the hold assist.

I can then vary brake pressure to determine clutch bite points in readiness for traffic light Grand Prix, and also regulate if/when I want Start Stop to activate.

There are also (frequently) times when I don't want it to apply the foot brake, or parking brake for me automatically, for example, after a high speed run I want to sit and idle on level ground with the DSG Park Pawl engaged, but not have hot brake pads clamped against a relatively hot disc.

For me Hold Assist is not a good option.

 

[Daz Auto]

Not crucial for me though, having an auto box.

Had to reassure my wife that once the Stronic leaver is in P(ark) the car isn't going to move. And it has to be in P(ark) before she can remove the keys. So this car is never going to roll down a hill on her.

Though she did nearly stall my DSG one day. I didn't think that was possible. So never say never...

 

[cuke2u]

Never have had that experience of a mechanical handbrake in all my 44 years of driving. I am still not fully used to both the handbrake and the hold assist yet and find the implementation of both systems 'clunky' and noisy in operation. I also prefer to use the handbrake when the car is stationary for more than a few secs as Dave does.

 

[veeeight]

Even though "P" engages a mechanical park pawl in the gearbox and prevents the car from rolling away, in reality it's not really good practice to hold the car on this device, on anything other than level ground,

I have seen examples of failed pawls, bent pins, and deformed linkages, where the weight of the car over time had weakened this device.

On anything other than level ground, or an extremely gentle slope, it would be wise to engage the EPB, and on really severe slopes, turn the front wheels into the kerb etc.

 

[Daz Auto]

Never have had that experience of a mechanical handbrake in all my 44 years of driving.

My wife is quite a small person - 5'2" and less than 8 stone. I think the handbrake was barely on. After that experience, she used 2 hands on the brake leaver and double checked the car was left in gear.

 

[veeeight]

In my experience I can only apply the EPB within a few seconds of having turned off the ignition. After than it doesn't activate..

I tried this out in mine this morning.

Switched off car, opened door, closed door, waited for all the DIS to switch off and all the interior lights to go out. Probably around 40 seconds in total.

Was still able to apply EPB without ignition.

 

[veeeight]

Repeated the test again this evening, this time with a longer interval after ignition switch off.

Parked car at supermarket. Left car in P, no EPB
Went inside to do shopping (30 mins)
Returned to car, put shopping in boot.
Open drivers door, leaned in and pulled up EPB. EPB applied, whirring noise. No ignition needed !

 

[Pete_3000]

Fully agree. In 40 yrs of driving I've had no trouble with handbrakes but I forgot to put it on once and another time rolled forward reversing out of a parking space. There's a lag and it's either very on or off which gives it no subtlety. It seems like Audi have gone too far in giving the car priority over the driver on quite a few controls.

 

[veeeight]

It's not Audi, it's all the manufacturers going to EPB, one of the main reasons is packaging space in the cabin and centre console.

If we still had a conventional handbrake in the 8V, the MMI controller would not be where it is, and anyone who owned an 8P and centre armrest would know just how much of a compromise that was !

Handbrake OR armrest.
Armrest OR cupholder.

 

[snakehips]

I tried this out in mine this morning.

Switched off car, opened door, closed door, waited for all the DIS to switch off and all the interior lights to go out. Probably around 40 seconds in total.

Was still able to apply EPB without ignition.

I just discovered that this does work for me, but it needs a more prolonged pull on the switch than the flick I can give it when ignition is on, which is why I thought I couldn't apply it. Thanks - I have learned something new today!