Our Troops in Afghanistan
- Thread starter voorhees
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Put an end to the rules of engagement and the tide would start to turn.
As it is, you cannot shoot soomeone who isn't armed or holding a weapon. So the taliban shoot at the soldiers then put their guns down so they won't get shot. They get arrested instead and some lily livered tree hugging human rights pansy campaigns for their release so they can start all over again.
If they are shooting at you, you should have the right to shoot back regardless of if they have put their guns down.
As it is, you cannot shoot soomeone who isn't armed or holding a weapon. So the taliban shoot at the soldiers then put their guns down so they won't get shot. They get arrested instead and some lily livered tree hugging human rights pansy campaigns for their release so they can start all over again.
If they are shooting at you, you should have the right to shoot back regardless of if they have put their guns down.
I don't really shout out about going to Afghan but I will tell this story:
We were on a patrol on the way back to a Forward Operating Base (FOB) that we would go back to for supplies after a big operation. It was a huge convoy that spread for about a mile in all. On the way we went through a slightly populated area with a compound to our left and kids at the side of the track when we got mortared. They hit level with the vehicle I was commanding but they were 200-300m away so it wasn't a problem. We just floored it and got out of there.
A bit further up we all stopped and one of the Mastiffs went past us going back the way we had come. We heard on the radio that a kid had been injured by the mortars and the doctor was in the Mastiff.
It highlighted to me massively what a difference there is between the hearts of the British forces and the Taliban. They don't care who they injure and they fired mortars knowing they may hit civilians. The Brits were willing to put themselves in danger to help the locals out.
We were on a patrol on the way back to a Forward Operating Base (FOB) that we would go back to for supplies after a big operation. It was a huge convoy that spread for about a mile in all. On the way we went through a slightly populated area with a compound to our left and kids at the side of the track when we got mortared. They hit level with the vehicle I was commanding but they were 200-300m away so it wasn't a problem. We just floored it and got out of there.
A bit further up we all stopped and one of the Mastiffs went past us going back the way we had come. We heard on the radio that a kid had been injured by the mortars and the doctor was in the Mastiff.
It highlighted to me massively what a difference there is between the hearts of the British forces and the Taliban. They don't care who they injure and they fired mortars knowing they may hit civilians. The Brits were willing to put themselves in danger to help the locals out.
I have no doubt that is true, it's a typical British thing to do, always has been.
I read this and would like to believe it works both ways, however I imagine the British are the only people who would honour it. I can't imagine the Taliban not shooting an unarmed Brit .....
Eight dead in 24 hours according to the BBC news.
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bullets aren't the majority killer are they Paul ?
If ever we hook up,I'll buy you a keg Leon
Voorhees, nope, bullets arn't the majority killers, bombs are. And while the Taliban know they can get away with it they will continue.
There is a slogan which was attached to the B52 squadron in Vietnam that reads "Peace through superior firepower". The Taliban are under the impression that the forces that are there are all there is, and that they still have a chance to win because their enemy is playing to the rules.
What needs to happen is enough soldiers and correct equipment to make the Taliban think "Holy crap, theres hundreds of them, they are well armed and they are going to kill us".
An example. Towards the end of WW2 the Japanese swore to fight to the death. 20,000 soldiers from both sides were being killed every month. Big bang in Hiroshima which killed around 70,000, followed by a slightly bigger bang in Nagasaki killing around 40,000 and this informed the Japanese that they had no chance whatsoever against such overwhelming firepower, so they surrendered. Experts estimated that it shortened the war by two years, so in theory it saved nearly half a million lives.
The Taliban need to have their own little Hiroshima. By that I don't mean drop a nuclear bomb on them, I mean that they need to be shown by overwhelming strength that they cannot win. And until that happens the war will continue and young soldiers lives will be lost.
@ Staz, I will also buy you a beer and you can buy me one as well, I was associated with Blackwater 2000 - 2003.
There is a slogan which was attached to the B52 squadron in Vietnam that reads "Peace through superior firepower". The Taliban are under the impression that the forces that are there are all there is, and that they still have a chance to win because their enemy is playing to the rules.
What needs to happen is enough soldiers and correct equipment to make the Taliban think "Holy crap, theres hundreds of them, they are well armed and they are going to kill us".
An example. Towards the end of WW2 the Japanese swore to fight to the death. 20,000 soldiers from both sides were being killed every month. Big bang in Hiroshima which killed around 70,000, followed by a slightly bigger bang in Nagasaki killing around 40,000 and this informed the Japanese that they had no chance whatsoever against such overwhelming firepower, so they surrendered. Experts estimated that it shortened the war by two years, so in theory it saved nearly half a million lives.
The Taliban need to have their own little Hiroshima. By that I don't mean drop a nuclear bomb on them, I mean that they need to be shown by overwhelming strength that they cannot win. And until that happens the war will continue and young soldiers lives will be lost.
@ Staz, I will also buy you a beer and you can buy me one as well, I was associated with Blackwater 2000 - 2003.
No need mate. The real heroes are the ones who are on patrols every day.
There's a troop who's sole job is to escort people from one place to another along the same track every day. Each morning they go out and clear it. Those guy have big balls!
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Yeah I watched a real program about the boys over there with the IED's & it was truly enlightening what they go through over there, they have big balls & are a credit to the country & world tbh.
Watching what they go through was harrowing to think it happens daily & scary as hell, I cant imagine being in the **** as such like they are, seeing friends & colleagues blown apart in front of you, to lose 8 in what 24 hrs now & then when the soldiers come home you see protests etc, that disgusts me & tbh I dont know if I could contain my anger if I was there.
I'm usually tolerant as freedom of speech etc but even I'm now getting fedup seeing this ***** going on in the UK.
Also seeing the state of the digs over here for soldiers as shown in newspapers sometime back, absolutely disgraceful & disgusting.
I have to agree with me Bear, they need to have a show of force & power to progress this along to a peaceful state, you hear about troop levels & you think how can they possibly handle these issues & expect the problems to go away with such a low troop level policing in such a vast area, to think the state of pakistan aswell, how could they possibly get away with that taking over areas.
Completely off topic, but anyone on here read the Koran/Qur'an as have a question if something exists in there.
Watching what they go through was harrowing to think it happens daily & scary as hell, I cant imagine being in the **** as such like they are, seeing friends & colleagues blown apart in front of you, to lose 8 in what 24 hrs now & then when the soldiers come home you see protests etc, that disgusts me & tbh I dont know if I could contain my anger if I was there.
I'm usually tolerant as freedom of speech etc but even I'm now getting fedup seeing this ***** going on in the UK.
Also seeing the state of the digs over here for soldiers as shown in newspapers sometime back, absolutely disgraceful & disgusting.
I have to agree with me Bear, they need to have a show of force & power to progress this along to a peaceful state, you hear about troop levels & you think how can they possibly handle these issues & expect the problems to go away with such a low troop level policing in such a vast area, to think the state of pakistan aswell, how could they possibly get away with that taking over areas.
Completely off topic, but anyone on here read the Koran/Qur'an as have a question if something exists in there.
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I was saying bombs are not the key at all,if only half the population of any of the recent occupied countries turned against us we would be ****** big stylee so to say bomb them all is just stoopid
ROE...not sure about that as out in the field I'm sure they wouldn't be followed to the word
ROE...not sure about that as out in the field I'm sure they wouldn't be followed to the word
I think you will find the majority of the people in the countrys we are fighting in are against us.
They like us for the foreign aid we give them and thats it.
We turn up, bomb the crap out of the sh*thole they live in, get rid of the corrupt dictator and rebuild the city nice and new and clean and better.
Then they will turn the country back into a sh*thole and employ another dictator and start all over again.
If its so nice there, why are they all trying to come here? Benefits and handouts, thats all we are good for in the western world.
It must be so demoralising for the troops to be out there risking their lives only to see the same people who were their enemy back here living better.
They like us for the foreign aid we give them and thats it.
We turn up, bomb the crap out of the sh*thole they live in, get rid of the corrupt dictator and rebuild the city nice and new and clean and better.
Then they will turn the country back into a sh*thole and employ another dictator and start all over again.
If its so nice there, why are they all trying to come here? Benefits and handouts, thats all we are good for in the western world.
It must be so demoralising for the troops to be out there risking their lives only to see the same people who were their enemy back here living better.
Good thing it wasn't you in there then. That would have been a huge escalation of violence towards innocent people. Those people had a right to protest against the British being there. Yes they shouldn't have thrown rocks at a burning man but I can understand why they did it and they didn't deserve to die for it.
It was a horrible situation that never should have happened as that vehicle should have had mutual support from other troops. But it happened and we have to accept that the local population used it as a way of venting the frustrations of British 'occupation'.
But that was in Iraq, which is a completely different story to Afghan. To assume that the Afghan population support the fanatics, i.e. the Taliban, in destroying the British just shows that you have no idea what is going on over there.
Damn it why didnt I think of you in the 1st place, what an idiot, lol, catch you on the m of the s of the n.
This thread has lit a little fire in differences of opinions, need to read up, but funny how we only see what we've possibly done wrong over there, what about the savagery they do which I would say is why they're called extremists cause what they do to there own people isnt anything short of savage & extreme, it really is shocking to hear things like stoning a woman for supposed adultery, without any real proof IIRC, it was an assumption, amazes me.
What does it mean to be Human, from where I'm standing the phrase "to be human" is becoming less & less a worthy thing to be.
Yesterday showed me exactly the mindset of people these days just coming back from london, they're mental man, absolutely gone in the head.
@NHN, As far as I was aware he was a friend of a diplomat. Where we were started to gain an atmosphere, an unsafe feeling, so I ushered him into a store with the plan to exit out the rear. As I opened the rear door I had a blinding flash in my eyes and fell to the ground, I looked up and saw him holding the hammer before he kicked me. I never saw him again.
I used to be left handed, now longer, I now have to use my right hand. I had semi paralysis down my left side. It took six years of hard work to regain the feeling, and to lose my limp. I now have to drive autos and still have partial paralysis in the right side of my face. I had to learn to write again. Try it, try and do everything you do with your right hand left handed. I was a tactical weapons specialist and instructor. I worked and trained in several parts of the world. I had to change my career and my lifestyle.
And all this because I was trying to save someones life from a potential threat.
I used to be left handed, now longer, I now have to use my right hand. I had semi paralysis down my left side. It took six years of hard work to regain the feeling, and to lose my limp. I now have to drive autos and still have partial paralysis in the right side of my face. I had to learn to write again. Try it, try and do everything you do with your right hand left handed. I was a tactical weapons specialist and instructor. I worked and trained in several parts of the world. I had to change my career and my lifestyle.
And all this because I was trying to save someones life from a potential threat.
Thankyou UNKLE, finally someone with sense to read between the ballshit oil stories, *** how long have I been saying the same ****** thing, its never been about OIL, why would they spend trillions on this war to get oil that also cost them aswell, do you think they have tankers of free oil sailing daily to the US, think before commenting, americans can be stupid like alot of us, but certainly not that stupid.
Mate I totally feel for you, really do & I'm sorry its happened, at least you comment from actual real world experiences, not speculation & as per Staz, he has real world knowledge of the experiences, so I respect you both, different experiences but equally valuable for us who have no real world experience or knowledge of these areas.
Whats a **** is you lost a career you probably loved to bits, well respected for & had alot of pride in mate, I do really feel for you.
Did the diplomat ever come see if you were ok or how you were doing?
& I have to say I have a newfound respect for you mate, not I disrespected you before, you get me I hope, as I didnt know you were actually in the **** as such & to come out of it that way is just wrong man, so wrong.
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Yeah I know, got the book by Mark Bowden which the film was based on, got it when stopped at Al-Udeid in Qatar, the yanks sure know how to build airforce bases...
i find that it hard to believe the war was to find osama if they can find saddamn down a 100ft deep down a rabbit hole why cant they find osama the ex cia agent he,s in a cave on the boarder of pakistan the reason they dont cos all of pakistan will go right off ...and yes onkle i read that from my daughters school book last night just like black hawk down never happened doh...
I got it from Iraq, OP Telic 5,6 and 7.
And you just proved beyond doubt that your an idiot, case closed.
/gone to the pub.
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