Opinions of Stage 2 on Pre-Facelift RS3

Naylor92

Registered User
Just had a brief read through this thread,

Not sure why anyone would swap a sport exhaust system out for any system for power or noise below 600hp. You will not beat the stock sports exhaust system with a full decat.

Pre fl tuning summed up below;

Any intake does little below 600hp
There are no measurable power gains to be had by adding a decat downpipe on its own
All the power gains at stage 2 come from fitting an intercooler that can deal with the heat generated by the turbos, this allows you to run more boost and cleans the timing up
There are large torque gains to be had by fitting an upgraded high pressure fuel pump!
So are you saying you could go stage 2+ without the need for a downpipe of any sort? Just go with stock sports exhaust with secondary decats?
 

Naylor92

Registered User
Personally my PFL with MRC stage 1 and secondary decats was pretty immense. Massively more faster than stock. £750. If flush with cash then go balls out and stage 3.

I’m a pretty sensible driver on the road so for me getting intercooler and/or stage 2 I didn’t see as worth it. Another £2k for 30hp was too much for me.
It’s about the torque aswell though isn’t it, with the upgraded HPFP internals and a Tcu map it would be absolutely savage!! Like someone earlier on on this thread said, there was nothing in it between his and a stage 2 fl albeit with no cooler. That’ll be down to the big torque figures!!
 

Naylor92

Registered User
I haven't seen many places that offer turbo replacement and a map for the pre-face-lift RS3 especially compared with the face-lift version.

I found Stage 2 does offer better mid range pull over Stage 1 but not much low down.

Here is my Stage 1 RS3 at vmax200 a few to give an indication of the performance :-

This weekend I'm taking it again to vmax200 to see how much faster Stage 2 is.
I will post a video of that day to see if you want to spend more for the higher performance with a new turbo or if Stage 2 offer better value.
So what modifications and mapping do you exactly have chap?
 

XPOWER

Registered User
So what modifications and mapping do you exactly have chap?
Current mods are:-
  • Revo Air intake
  • Airtec intercooler
  • Milltek SSXAU587 downpipe
  • Revo Stage 2 remap

Also have Revo Brake Disc upgrade and pads due to my previous ones being badly grooved after only 17,500 miles.

APR does offer a stage 2 + which consists of a High Pressure Fuel Pump.

When I did the video only Revo Stage 1 remap.
 

Naylor92

Registered User
Current mods are:-
  • Revo Air intake
  • Airtec intercooler
  • Milltek SSXAU587 downpipe
  • Revo Stage 2 remap

Also have Revo Brake Disc upgrade and pads due to my previous ones being badly grooved after only 17,500 miles.

APR does offer a stage 2 + which consists of a High Pressure Fuel Pump.

When I did the video only Revo Stage 1 remap.
Cheers for the reply.

I have just Hg motorsport hard pipe to stock air box with uprated Bmc panel filter.
How much is the AirTec cooler?
I may try to go for it without a downpipe and just try with what I have now as reading on here, there aren’t noticeable gains to be had are there.
Do you have the Tcu tune aswell of course?

I’m good for breaks as I’ve only just had reyland j hooks fitted to the fronts with new pads.

I’m tempted to go for the HPFP but would you say it’s worth it for all that extra money for small gains? What figures did you get without it?
 

XPOWER

Registered User
I haven't got the invoice to hand but I think it was around £600.
If the car has adaptive cruise control fitted then the inter-cooler has to be deigned to fit around it.

Revo didn't offer TCU map.

I ask Revo and they said that their map doesn't support HPFP.
Looking at the APR website they quote 7hp increase between Stage 2 and 2+.

I'm running a 98 RON map day-to-day while switching map using Revo's SPS to the 102 RON feels noticeably quicker.
But running the 102 RON map without 102 RON fuel is a bit risky as I'm using 99 RON V-Power and Millers Petrol Power ECOMAX which offers 2 octane boost as the car was still risk of knocking.

I guess you have already seen this post about TTE500 turbo tuning:-
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threa...-tfsi-ttrs-8j-rs3-8p-8v-1-rsq3-rs3-8v.234751/
 

Naylor92

Registered User
I haven't got the invoice to hand but I think it was around £600.
If the car has adaptive cruise control fitted then the inter-cooler has to be deigned to fit around it.

Revo didn't offer TCU map.

I ask Revo and they said that their map doesn't support HPFP.
Looking at the APR website they quote 7hp increase between Stage 2 and 2+.

I'm running a 98 RON map day-to-day while switching map using Revo's SPS to the 102 RON feels noticeably quicker.
But running the 102 RON map without 102 RON fuel is a bit risky as I'm using 99 RON V-Power and Millers Petrol Power ECOMAX which offers 2 octane boost as the car was still risk of knocking.

I guess you have already seen this post about TTE500 turbo tuning:-
https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threa...-tfsi-ttrs-8j-rs3-8p-8v-1-rsq3-rs3-8v.234751/
That’s fairly cheap isn’t it! How are they rated as the tuner I’m using has advised a forge one. I don’t have the acc anyway.

That’s mad as I thought they would all need Tcu tune after stage 1!

Yeah with regards to the HPFP, I don’t think it makes masses of difference to hp it’s the torque where the gains are to be had.

I think I would only use the higher Ron fuel when using a hybrid turbo and going for even more power.

Yes I’m still very tempted by this and stage 2, I’m really unsure which way to go!? Also, what insurance company do you use?
 

D0C

Registered User
That’s fairly cheap isn’t it! How are they rated as the tuner I’m using has advised a forge one. I don’t have the acc anyway.

That’s mad as I thought they would all need Tcu tune after stage 1!

Yeah with regards to the HPFP, I don’t think it makes masses of difference to hp it’s the torque where the gains are to be had.

I think I would only use the higher Ron fuel when using a hybrid turbo and going for even more power.

Yes I’m still very tempted by this and stage 2, I’m really unsure which way to go!? Also, what insurance company do you use?
Can you afford to go stage 2? If so, just do it.
 

XPOWER

Registered User
The logistics of using high octane fuel isn't worth it.
25 Liters of Sunoco 260 GT costs £101 ex vat which is a 105 RON fuel.
So filling a car up would means buying £363 worth of fuel and storing it.

If you are unsure I would say stage 2 is enough of a commitment financially and if you want to make it a project car stage 2 components can be used when upgrading to stage 3.
As you've seen the RS3 is a 170+mph car anyway just with a remap is it worth the investing thousands more to make it a 180+mph road car?

Stage 2 keeps the way the standard car drives but makes it more responsive and offers better mid range power which is really useful day-to-day driving.
I'm still getting 22 mpg every week with commuting to work.

I use Admiral and it costing me £400 a year after declaring Stage 2 modification and what Revo quotes on their website for the Stage 2 power gain.
 

Naylor92

Registered User
The logistics of using high octane fuel isn't worth it.
25 Liters of Sunoco 260 GT costs £101 ex vat which is a 105 RON fuel.
So filling a car up would means buying £363 worth of fuel and storing it.

If you are unsure I would say stage 2 is enough of a commitment financially and if you want to make it a project car stage 2 components can be used when upgrading to stage 3.
As you've seen the RS3 is a 170+mph car anyway just with a remap is it worth the investing thousands more to make it a 180+mph road car?

Stage 2 keeps the way the standard car drives but makes it more responsive and offers better mid range power which is really useful day-to-day driving.
I'm still getting 22 mpg every week with commuting to work.

I use Admiral and it costing me £400 a year after declaring Stage 2 modification and what Revo quotes on their website for the Stage 2 power gain.
When you put it like that, it really does sound like one massive ball ache!! That’s a lot of cash to keep on spending isn’t it!

Yeah I’m definitely unsure if to just say, **** it! Go all out and go hybrid or just spent quite a bit less and still have some mega gains. You’re selling it to me a bit with regards to stage2. What exactly are your figures again chap?

Insurance sounds very good too!!
 

DAN@ADRIAN FLUX

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That’s fairly cheap isn’t it! How are they rated as the tuner I’m using has advised a forge one. I don’t have the acc anyway.

That’s mad as I thought they would all need Tcu tune after stage 1!

Yeah with regards to the HPFP, I don’t think it makes masses of difference to hp it’s the torque where the gains are to be had.

I think I would only use the higher Ron fuel when using a hybrid turbo and going for even more power.

Yes I’m still very tempted by this and stage 2, I’m really unsure which way to go!? Also, what insurance company do you use?
Hi.
If you need any help with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.
 

XPOWER

Registered User
Here is the 9 runs I did in VMAX200 on 18th July 2020.


The top speed was only 1 mph faster than when it had stage 1 but there was actually a noticeable increase in acceleration times between the two fastest runs:
Stage 1 vs Stage 2.jpg
 
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Naylor92

Registered User
Are there any performance numbers for hybrid turbo fitted for pre-facelift RS3?
Looking at your figures from your VMax videos. The figures for stage 2 are very impressive really aren’t they! There’s not actually masses of difference between the 0-60, 100-200, and quarter mile times! There is a difference but not as much as you would expect, it is really tempting me to go down this route firstly and see how things are, plus it will save me a lot of spending!!
 

XPOWER

Registered User
Looking at your figures from your VMax videos. The figures for stage 2 are very impressive really aren’t they! There’s not actually masses of difference between the 0-60, 100-200, and quarter mile times! There is a difference but not as much as you would expect, it is really tempting me to go down this route firstly and see how things are, plus it will save me a lot of spending!!

The most interesting was run 4 against a 530+bhp 720+Nm RS3. There was nothing in it until 112mph and only then it started to gain speed and finally over took at 150mph. I would have expected a bigger performance difference as my car had at least 85bhp deficit in over all power but the higher speed showed the benefit of the extra power and torque.

For high speed runway runs my car really felt out of its depth against the competition. A Golf R Estate managed 175.48mph which is a 2.17mph faster than my official top speed. Seeing a 1mph was only achieved with extra 45bhp I'm guess the Golf is a stage 3 with around 500bhp.
Looking at the percentage performance difference between stage 1 & 2 the 0-60mph is a 7% better then 0-100mph is 4% over that it's only 3% better and leveling off after 140mph to 2%.

Could always use an octane booster aswell at stage 2+ couldn’t you?
APR offer a Stage 2+ (443hp) but don't quote a 104 octane map for it. For stage 1 there is a 10bhp increase from using 98 to 104 ron.
Fuel additives isn't a real substitute for using 104 octane fuel.
 

Naylor92

Registered User
The most interesting was run 4 against a 530+bhp 720+Nm RS3. There was nothing in it until 112mph and only then it started to gain speed and finally over took at 150mph. I would have expected a bigger performance difference as my car had at least 85bhp deficit in over all power but the higher speed showed the benefit of the extra power and torque.

For high speed runway runs my car really felt out of its depth against the competition. A Golf R Estate managed 175.48mph which is a 2.17mph faster than my official top speed. Seeing a 1mph was only achieved with extra 45bhp I'm guess the Golf is a stage 3 with around 500bhp.
Looking at the percentage performance difference between stage 1 & 2 the 0-60mph is a 7% better then 0-100mph is 4% over that it's only 3% better and leveling off after 140mph to 2%.


APR offer a Stage 2+ (443hp) but don't quote a 104 octane map for it. For stage 1 there is a 10bhp increase from using 98 to 104 ron.
Fuel additives isn't a real substitute for using 104 octane fuel.
Yeah there’s pros and cons then but only mainly seen at the real high end of the Rev ranges. So do you think that you could use an octane booster at stage2+?
 

XPOWER

Registered User
Yeah there’s pros and cons then but only mainly seen at the real high end of the Rev ranges. So do you think that you could use an octane booster at stage2+?
I would use octane booster it as I find there is no detrimental effect to the power of the way the engines runs.

A few years ago Fifth Gear did a report on fuel additives and found that using them actually decreased power.

It looked like they used a Rover K-Series engine for their test which might not benefit from higher octane anyway.
 

Naylor92

Registered User
I would use octane booster it as I find there is no detrimental effect to the power of the way the engines runs.

A few years ago Fifth Gear did a report on fuel additives and found that using them actually decreased power.

It looked like they used a Rover K-Series engine for their test which might not benefit from higher octane anyway.
How much was your stage 2 all in chap please? I’ve just been quoted, everything all in at awesomegti, £4,600!!!!!!!!!
 

XPOWER

Registered User
How much was your stage 2 all in chap please? I’ve just been quoted, everything all in at awesomegti, £4,600!!!!!!!!!
That sounds about right It was £4,000 for a down-pipe, inter-cooler and a Stage 2 remap with a discount because I had Stage 1 already.
Add the cost of a air intake and a full price for stage 2 it would be £4,600 or maybe a bit more.
 

Naylor92

Registered User
That sounds about right It was £4,000 for a down-pipe, inter-cooler and a Stage 2 remap with a discount because I had Stage 1 already.
Add the cost of a air intake and a full price for stage 2 it would be £4,600 or maybe a bit more.
That is absolutely ******* mad!!! You can go hybrid for just over £5,000!
 

XPOWER

Registered User
That is absolutely ******* mad!!! You can go hybrid for just over £5,000!
Just found the email quote and it was actually 3k with the stage 2 discount and no air intake.
Is there an off the shelf map available for a hybrid turbo or is it a custom one?
 

Naylor92

Registered User
Just found the email quote and it was actually 3k with the stage 2 discount and no air intake.
Is there an off the shelf map available for a hybrid turbo or is it a custom one?
Yeah it’s not too bad at that! £4650 is absolutely ridiculous if you ask me.
No I don’t think so for the pfl. It’s custom only.
 

XPOWER

Registered User
Yeah I’ll have a look around and find out exactly what I want to do. Who did you use? What exact torque and bhp figures did your car acheive?
I've posted the dyno graph calculated to the fly wheel in earlier post so that will give a rough idea what the tune is like.
I used Got Boost Performance Tuning. If you are based near Nottingham there are a number of Revo and APR dealers near to choose from.
 

Goubo1

Registered User
It’s about the torque aswell though isn’t it, with the upgraded HPFP internals and a Tcu map it would be absolutely savage!! Like someone earlier on on this thread said, there was nothing in it between his and a stage 2 fl albeit with no cooler. That’ll be down to the big torque figures!!

So there was nothing much init between a full stage 2 specs pfl car with hpfp and a fl stage 2 car with no cooler?
 

XPOWER

Registered User
How different do you reckon a Tdi Tuning box and an APR Stage one (and cooler) would be?
JayEmm on cars did a 1 year review of the tuning box on a S1

Dark Side tested out some tuning boxes which has been discussed in other thread on General Automotive Chat section of the forum about their conclusions

If its leased or not keeping the car long term then a tuning box makes sense otherwise a Stage 1 remap seems better option.
 
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Naylor92

Registered User
Lol, how long have you been on about tuning your car?!
Difference will be massive. Just get on with it and start enjoying it!
I know but I’ve been changing my mind every day nearly haha! So indecisive, I have the tuning box on the car as I had it on my previous car so it just made sense to carry on using it for the time being.

I know for a fact I want to go hybrid with Ben at the turbo unit but for now I feel like I still need more than the tuning box and want a proper stage 1 with an upgraded cooler. So just want to know what the difference will actually be and will it be worth doing it or just waiting to go for big power (hybrid).
 

D0C

Registered User
I know but I’ve been changing my mind every day nearly haha! So indecisive, I have the tuning box on the car as I had it on my previous car so it just made sense to carry on using it for the time being.

I know for a fact I want to go hybrid with Ben at the turbo unit but for now I feel like I still need more than the tuning box and want a proper stage 1 with an upgraded cooler. So just want to know what the difference will actually be and will it be worth doing it or just waiting to go for big power (hybrid).
I had DTUK tuning box on my Golf R. Was great. Think more stage 0.5, but it was good. Then I tried one on my PFL RS3. Car didn’t like it at all. And it was definitely all connected correctly. I then got it to MRC for stage 1. Was mind blowing the difference.
Next car was a TTRS and I tried Revo stage 1 as I know the guys there well. Was fantastic. If keeping the car a long time then I would recommend the Revo tune...it was smooth and very OEM feeling.
For my next car (and current TTRS) I decided to try MRC again for something different. It’s definitely much more torquier and feels more brutal (although I have got panel filter and inlet/turbo hard pipes which could give an extra 10-15hp I suppose). I’m delighted.

From what I get of you, I reckon you should just get it to MRC and have stage 1 with the pipes which are a minimal cost. For £1000 ish you’ll have a car which will be light years ahead of a tuning box and will give you a smile every time you drive it.
 

T-1000

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
I had DTUK tuning box on my Golf R. Was great. Think more stage 0.5, but it was good. Then I tried one on my PFL RS3. Car didn’t like it at all. And it was definitely all connected correctly. I then got it to MRC for stage 1. Was mind blowing the difference.
Next car was a TTRS and I tried Revo stage 1 as I know the guys there well. Was fantastic. If keeping the car a long time then I would recommend the Revo tune...it was smooth and very OEM feeling.
For my next car (and current TTRS) I decided to try MRC again for something different. It’s definitely much more torquier and feels more brutal (although I have got panel filter and inlet/turbo hard pipes which could give an extra 10-15hp I suppose). I’m delighted.

From what I get of you, I reckon you should just get it to MRC and have stage 1 with the pipes which are a minimal cost. For £1000 ish you’ll have a car which will be light years ahead of a tuning box and will give you a smile every time you drive it.

Lol 2.9 secs
49c9882ecfa4d97ded54122268005d7d.plist



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Naylor92

Registered User
I had DTUK tuning box on my Golf R. Was great. Think more stage 0.5, but it was good. Then I tried one on my PFL RS3. Car didn’t like it at all. And it was definitely all connected correctly. I then got it to MRC for stage 1. Was mind blowing the difference.
Next car was a TTRS and I tried Revo stage 1 as I know the guys there well. Was fantastic. If keeping the car a long time then I would recommend the Revo tune...it was smooth and very OEM feeling.
For my next car (and current TTRS) I decided to try MRC again for something different. It’s definitely much more torquier and feels more brutal (although I have got panel filter and inlet/turbo hard pipes which could give an extra 10-15hp I suppose). I’m delighted.

From what I get of you, I reckon you should just get it to MRC and have stage 1 with the pipes which are a minimal cost. For £1000 ish you’ll have a car which will be light years ahead of a tuning box and will give you a smile every time you drive it.
I too had a DTUK box on my Golf R and as you say, it was actually brilliant. I had that and a pedal box too. Was quite surprising at times.

With regards to tuning boxes on the RS3, I too have the same experience as what you did! It just doesn’t seem to like it and it doesn’t feel right if I’m being entirely honest. I do have the Bluetooth app and they’ve sent me some new map files to try.

So would you advise a strong case for a stage 1 MRC on the PFL? I was thinking about adding a cooler now too although it isn’t a necessity. I was looking at APR as they produce more torque than any of the other off the shelf maps. But you reckon MRC is the way to go? What additional hardware did you have on the car and what figures did the car acheive? I have a intake pipe and panel filter plus secondary decats, so with a cooler I’m sure it would be much better. For a £1000 do you get a Tcu tune aswell?
 
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