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Opinions of Stage 2 on Pre-Facelift RS3

XPOWER Apr 8, 2019

  1. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    I've been running a Revo Stage 1 for over a year 2016 RS3. I haven't had it on a rolling road but it feels faster with more torque than when it was standard on the road even though VMax 200 event timing showed it wasn't any faster than a standard delimited PFL RS3.

    I've decided to keep the car for a few years until I see something I would like to replace it with so I was thinking about upgrading to Revo Stage 2.

    Now the Stage 2 PFL has been out for a while I was wondering if it was worth the upgrade over a Stage 1 and how does it effect day to day driving.

    Here is a rough costing for Stage 2:-
    Audi RS3 8V EVO3 Competition Intercooler Kit non ACC £1,385.00
    Milltek Exhaust AUDI RS3 Sportback (8V MQB) 2015-2018 - SSXAU587 £1,062.53
    Revo Air intake £478.8
    Remap £60

    Total parts cost £2,986.33 ex-fitting

    It looks expensive when comparing it to FL RS3 producing around same quoted power with only a remap.
     
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  3. Callum66

    Callum66 Registered User

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    Do you need an exhaust system for Stage 2? Is the money not better spent on a sports cat or de-cat? Sorry to give you questions rather than answers.
     
  4. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Revo quote the following hardware for stage 2:-
    • Revo Carbon Series Intake
    • Uprated Intercooler
    • Turbo Back Exhaust System with High Flow Catalyst
    I'm guessing a full Exhaust will be far more expensive and I'm not sure about replacing the entire system after opting for the sports exhaust.
     
  5. Callum66

    Callum66 Registered User

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    I would be surprised if the exhaust is that restrictive it won’t cope with a Stage 2. My FL Stage 2 only has the downpipe replaced. The sports exhaust on your PFL has got to be worth a try.
     
  6. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    The gains on FL over PFL is a big step. Not sure why it is unless selling it globally meant the hardware to produce the standard power had higher tolerances so tuning is easier to extract the power form standard components.
     
  7. terminator x

    terminator x Registered User

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    The cost to change to a FL though must be £20k or so, so surely better value with the PFL?

    TX.
     
  8. Callum66

    Callum66 Registered User

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    Yes, I understand that. FL S2 goes over 500hp with the standard exhaust, only a de-cat and an air filter, no intake. I would be tempted to ask for a second opinion on what’s necessary before spending £1500+ on an intake & exhaust.
     
  9. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Yes I agree and I really like the car so happy to to keep it for another few years but a tune will keep it fresh and I wouldn't mind beating 180mph in another Vmax event.

    Yes I will ask. The garage that I take it to are really knowable and are helpful about tuning but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
  10. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in

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    Here’s a copy of the info from APR’s website.
    Says intercooler and high flow downpipe, I’ve been looking in to it myself and need a downpipe and intercooler
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Callum66

    Callum66 Registered User

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    I agree with you. You can always add intake & exhaust parts easily. The intercooler is a more time consuming / specialist job. There will be lots on here who have done it already.
     
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  13. DW81

    DW81 Registered User

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    Alot if money for not much more in power and torque gains from stage 1
     
  14. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Seeing Eventuri RS3 had good results with replacement air box on Vmax200 compared with the standard air box so that is worth including as part of Stage 2 Package on FL RS3 and I'm guessing PFL as well.



    That is my concern that I spend this money and the returns on performance and day to day usage doesn't really justify the upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  15. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in

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    Running stage 1 Apr I have a HG Motorsport intake pipe with panel filter.
    Tempted to add an intercooler and stay stage 1.
    People say the intercooler is the bottle neck even running stage 1
     
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  16. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    When I was at the Vmax event I was speaking to a guy that was tuning RS3 and he said the issues they had was heat soak so he advised getting an upgraded inter-cooler fitted when upping the power.
     
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  17. Marshy

    Marshy Settled in

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    When looking at intercoolers I don’t want the one where the crash bar is needed.
    The Wagner Evo1 intercooler is probably the one I’d want so the rest of the car is standard, much easier to fit too.
    This one
    https://www.wagner-tuning.uk/200001107.html
     
  18. betaone68

    betaone68 Registered User

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    From my personal experience I advise you against moving to Stage 2 Revo. I did not find the declared data on the dyno. You only have more torque at 5,000 rpm. I also couldn't find a 100 octane gasoline suitable for the REVO 98+ map. With all the 100 octane gasoline available on the Italian territory I found some worrisome ECU corrections (also - 9%). Mounting the 200-cell down pipe is a truly significant operation, it is necessary to remove both the transmission shaft and the lower suspension support.
    If you want to do some up grade I suggest you Wagner intercooler, secondary decat, K&N panel filter. On the 8V the turbine is small and does not allow it to exceed 400 hp.
    [​IMG]
     
    Callum66 likes this.
  19. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Thank you for the for for information. It is helpful to see the feedback from a customer.
    It looks like the results do not match the effort and cost involved in going to stage 2.
    As you suggested smaller upgrades will give better cost to performance results rather than a full stage 2 conversion.
     
  20. DerekL

    DerekL Registered User

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    Air intake in ******** don’t do that. So is the sports exhaust.

    For stage 2, all you need is an intercooler (second hand £600-800 depending on brand, wagner being closer to the £800 mark), plus installation, which is normally around £200, 3 hours labour.

    Then you’ve got either scorpion or milltek decat or sports cat, which are around £400 second hand for the decat or £600 for a sports cat second hand, I’d recommend sports cat just due to ease of MOT’s. Plus the labour on fitting the sports cat, which I’m unsure of.

    I’m revo stage 1 at the moment (was on the car when I purchased) but revo do not do a map for for a high pressure fuel pump, which gives the biggest increase from stage 1-2, people call it stage 2+. This gives you a load more torque and actually makes the switch from stage 1 to 2 worth it. So you’ve 2 options, APR or MRC. MRC is cheaper and comes with a half price TCU map too. I think the stage 2+ software from MRC is about £800. So all in I’ll be looking at ~£2k
     
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  21. Tomplumb

    Tomplumb Registered User

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    My PFL is MRC stage 2 with TCU map. No intercooler, just BMC panel filter, custom turbo back exhaust with race cat and utilising stock back box.

    (FYI the custom exhaust from Deuetsch Tech was only a couple hundred quid more fitted, than a Miltek. I’d recommend custom as read lots about Miltek being total junk nowadays...)
     
  22. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    It’s taken a while but finally made some decisions regarding what modifications to get for my car.

    I thought I would try the Revo Air Intake to supplement the stage 1 Revo map. I ordered it in June and I finally had it fitted this week (November).

    There was an issue with Revo obtaining the parts from their manufacturer so there was a delay getting it fitted.

    Have to say fitting the air intake has transformed the car, with it accelerating noticeably smoother and feels a bit more powerful. Haven’t done any timings yet but it should be noticeable faster. I was a bit sceptical if an air intake would make any difference, but I would recommend an air intake kit for anyone running a stage 1 tune.

    As far as stage 2 is concerned seeing there was such a delay in getting the air intake fitted it gave me a chance to decide if stage 2 is worth it. Talking with the garage they suggested the Airtec intercooler and a Milltek SSXAU587 Primary Hi-Flow Sports Cat and Turbo Elbow. Seeing that I’m keeping the car for the foreseeable future I decided to get it done.

    I didn’t go for a Cat Back Systems as it would have meant an extra £1500. The OEM sports exhaust should be ok for stage 2 but if there are any issues then I’ll upgrade that as well

    The work should be done in the next few weeks.
     
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  23. MattRS

    MattRS Registered User

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    XPOWER, how did the stage 2 mapping go? I’ve just picked up an RS3 8v pfl and thinking to go down this route with the sports car dp.

    Interested to hear the effect it had.
     
  24. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    I've been a way in December so haven't had a chance to get it done. My MOT and service is due in February as the Stage 2 fitting includes a service and health check so I decided to get it done then.

    There is a Vmax200 event in March to see what the performance numbers are but I don't know if it's a bit too soon after getting it fitted.
     
  25. MattRS

    MattRS Registered User

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    Fair enough. I've just bought a Nardo Grey RS3 & thinking about tuning.

    Personally, I'm not convinced there's enough justification between stage 1 & 2 to warrant messing around with the downpipe or intercooler. I like the idea of keeping it close to stock, so I've purchased OEM secondary de-cat. I appreciate the RS3 for what it is & like the fact that it handles many situations well and I think wastegate rattle & the cost of an intercooler are difficult for me to justify (I don't expect I'll be doing much track / drag racing).

    Appreciate it's each to their own, so I'm interested in the results you get & wish you the best of luck with it.
     
  26. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    I had stage 1 with secondary decat and it was much faster and louder than stock. I think it's enough, as well as being very cheap.
     
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  27. MattRS

    MattRS Registered User

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    Thanks, I think this is the route I will go. Still interested to see what XPOWER produces, as I'm sure the sports cat downpipe will give better results, but whether it's worth the extra money is subjective I guess.

    Are you also planning a HPFP for the stage 2 map XPOWER? I understand some tuners are recommending this to provide more fuelling to achieve higher torque lower in the rev range.
     
  28. Sug

    Sug Registered User

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    I have gone down the same route MRC stage one 425bhp and 620nm with the TCU software included. It’s a must with these. I would not bother with extra upgrades for stage 2 unless you are planning on a future turbo swap. As for the secondary decats it’s a no brainier when Audi will supply them for around £160. Noise is insane and can be turned off at the touch of a button
     
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  29. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    I've had a look at the prices for High Pressure Fuel Pump but the cost was a bit steep with Awesome GTI quoting over £2k for one.
    They were recommending them for big turbo kits for stock turbo I think I will see if it's really needed.
    I will try and not look at TTE700 turbo builds to give me expensive ideas.

    I've booked into vmax200 for March.
    As a comparison the last time I was there there was a standard pfl RS3 that maxed out at 171mph and mine did 172mph.
    Which was a surprise seeing a stage 1 felt faster on the road to stock RS3.
     
  30. Drewsus

    Drewsus Registered User

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    Are the HPFP internals like £400? Made by autotech or similar?
     
  31. Beebee-one

    Beebee-one Registered User

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    I have been reading through the posts on this thread and you must be very confused as to what you actually need to make your car go quickly, and avoid having to spend wallet melting amounts of cash.... and also end up with a safe tune that can run reliably at Vmax.

    First thing......you are planning to run your car flat out at Vmax. This type of sustained high speed driving produces immense stress on an engine and this is where risk of a bad tune or a component not working as it should can potentially result in expensive engine damage.

    Having witnessed the results of REVO tuned PFL cars on dyno days (ie; not producing the expected numbers and poor fueling, Note the Revo maps on FL cars are much better) I would strongly recommend that you at least get your car logged or have it checked on a dyno run before the Vmax event.

    Tuning the PFL car:
    An intercooler upgrade is a must have item for the PFL car as is suffers badly from heat soak after hard driving (bin the **** wavy brakes too Lol)
    Best maps for the PFL car in my opinion are either APR (they just managed to develop a decent tune on the PFL car as the FL car appeared), or MRC because they still invest time refining the mapping on the PFL cars while other tuners have moved on to the newer FL models, and possibly Ben White at The Turbo Unit who has a lot of experience with sorting out good PFL cars. The key thing here is the tuners knowledge and ability of being able to bypass the 1.55bar boost limit in the ECU. Most other plug n play and drive away stuff doesn't make the shortlist.

    Intakes - the stock airbox is not actually a problem for the lower stages of tune. Larger air intake pipes and a bigger turbo inlet pipe produces good value for money results. Save your cash on the fancy carbon boxes and spend it on the bigger intake pipes (Forge or HG Motorsport)
    Exhausts- The secondary decat delete on the PFL car is a must, it just brings the car to life and can help flow when tuning. As for downpipes, I personally think that on the PFL car at stage 2 tune/stock turbo, they do not provide enough benefit for the cost to buy and fit them. I know some owners who have gutted the stock DP (removed the cat internal materials) and re-fitted it with comparable results of a Milltek. The limitation here is the size of the stock turbo on the PFL car which is pretty much maxed out at 450-460ps (my PFL car managed 452ps & 684nm without a DP)
    HPFP - Not all stage 2 PFL cars need to have a high pressure fuel pump, it depends on the mapping you have on the car and how hard your injectors are having to work to fuel the map at the lower RPM range. Maps with high torque demand at low RPM (such as MRC maps) would most likely require a HPFP.

    Apologies for the long post but if you keep bolting things on without understanding what you are actually trying to achieve, you will end up with an empty wallet and an under performing car.

    Good luck at Vmax!
     
  32. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Thanks for your response.

    I am concerned about what can go wrong and saw first hand during my last Vmax event a Golf R ended its day being towed after putting all its oil along the runway. I don't think they managed to do many runs before something went pop but it looked fairly terminal and expensive.

    Regarding the breaks I updated them after coming back from the last Vmax event. The break pad warning light came up after the my first slow 155mph run. I took it easy with not over using the breaks and leaving them to cool down between runs. It turned out that the pads were low but there were grooves in the discs which couldn't be re-skimmed so got all four replaced with Revo branded ones.

    I'll see how it goes with the parts I've ordered. I'm not really after raw power. After owning the car for four years I just want to keep the performance fresh and make it feel what it would be like if Audi produced an RS3 which could match stock V8 and V6 RS4/RS5 it terms of performance.
    I'm hoping these would be the last mods I will do to the car before moving onto a new car, in the next few years, which in stock form can offer better performance than my RS3.

    I can see now what seems to be a simple decision to add some modifications can lead to a costly investment.
     
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  34. Ben Hall

    Ben Hall Registered User

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    I'm running stage 2+ with MRC including TCU map, It got 445ps and 778Nm on the rolling road.

    Hardware i am using is panel filter, HG-motorsport intake pipe, Turbo decat pipe, centre decat delete pipes, Audi Sport exhaust, Wagner EVO intercooler, GFB recirc valve, Autotech HPFP internals, new coil packs, and cooler running plugs (cant remeber which ones). I think that is all the mods if i remember correctly bar handerling mods.

    The main thing i can say is the extra tourqe makes the car very easy to drive, and still maintains the extremes of fuel ecconomy.

    On the road happerly will play with RS6 etc and on the track its just a weapon. Would love to do Vmax200 as not found the top speed yet ;o/ LOL

    The other senario i would talk about is playing with a stage 2 Facelift RS3 ( missing intercooler ) which is 500ps and 707Nm. and on the road there was nothing in it.
     
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  35. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Had the stage 2 kit fitted yesterday.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I haven’t had much of a chance to drive the car as it was late when they finished the work and today the car was in for a MOT and inspection service at the dealer. The only thing related to stage 2 on the MOT note was "Non standard exhaust system fitted to vehicle. Only 1 Lambda sensor fitted.".

    I did go out with the mechanic to check the engine timings of the car so did a few 4th gear pulls. Because it was dark it wasn’t ideal to test the car's performance but it felt stronger than stage 1 but it didn’t feel like a massive difference. That was on 98 octane map.

    On the 102 octane map it definitely was a step-up from stage 1 and it felt as I thought a stage 2 should be. The air was cold (under 6 degrees) and the car was running Shell V-Power with Millers Petrol Power Ecomax octane booster, the conditions gave the best chance of the map performing optimally on standard fuel. Even with the best conditions the engine timings were on the limit so wouldn’t be advisable to run that map as a daily.

    Driving back on the motorway the exhaust did drone a bit in dynamic mode but switching it to comfort stopped the droning.

    It’s too early to say if it’s worth the upgrade but should have a good idea over the next month with daily driving and Vmax 200.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
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  36. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Had it on the dyno today with it producing 444 hp and 640 nm at the fly.
    The map was the 98 octane as the 102 map should not be used unless its with 102 octane fuel.
    I'm happy with the numbers. It will be interesting to see how that performs on the runway.
    Dyno Run .jpg
     
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  37. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Registered User

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    Just had a brief read through this thread,

    Not sure why anyone would swap a sport exhaust system out for any system for power or noise below 600hp. You will not beat the stock sports exhaust system with a full decat.

    Pre fl tuning summed up below;

    Any intake does little below 600hp
    There are no measurable power gains to be had by adding a decat downpipe on its own
    All the power gains at stage 2 come from fitting an intercooler that can deal with the heat generated by the turbos, this allows you to run more boost and cleans the timing up
    There are large torque gains to be had by fitting an upgraded high pressure fuel pump!
     
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  38. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    I agree I really didn't want to swap the sports exhaust especially after paying for it when I ordered the car. It isn't too loud when driving around so wouldn't want to have an exhaust that makes the car unpleasant to drive day to day.

    I did feel the intake improved low end torque a little and made it a bit nicer to drive. I did to a times 0-60 run in it and found it the times were about the same before getting it fitted.

    I only went with the downpipe as Revo recommended it as part of the Stage 2 update.

    I am tempted by the High Pressure Fuel pump APR's website quotes a 47NM ( 35lbs) increase in torque.
    The difference in pricing between HPF is confusing with some at £500 while APR is at £2,141.49.
    It's a bit confusing what the difference in price makes.
     
  39. Aoon_M

    Aoon_M Registered User

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    APR HPFP is overpriced and also no longer available to purchase new AFAIK.

    VIS is good. As is Autotec.


    You will need a tune revision to benefit from the HPFP.
     
    XPOWER likes this.
  40. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    Those are more seasonably priced than the APR option.

    As Revo haven't got a Stage 2+ map like APR I guess adding a HPFP wont be any benefit to my car.

    So the Stage 2 is the limit of what can be can be done done to PFL RS3 without going down a big turbo route and a custom map.
    Really that isn't something I would look at as its my daily car and I don't want to risk reliability and the cost involved I think changing the car with more power would be the better for myself.
     
  41. Naylor92

    Naylor92 Registered User

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    Sorry to revive the thread but I’m really contemplating going for a hybrid build with Ben at the turbo unit or stage 2+.

    I’m really torn between the two and really it comes down to money! I’m looking for some opinions and feedback is possible and also insurance companies which are good for modifications!
     
  42. XPOWER

    XPOWER Registered User

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    I haven't seen many places that offer turbo replacement and a map for the pre-face-lift RS3 especially compared with the face-lift version.

    I found Stage 2 does offer better mid range pull over Stage 1 but not much low down.

    Here is my Stage 1 RS3 at vmax200 a few to give an indication of the performance :-


    This weekend I'm taking it again to vmax200 to see how much faster Stage 2 is.
    I will post a video of that day to see if you want to spend more for the higher performance with a new turbo or if Stage 2 offer better value.
     
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  43. D0C

    D0C Registered User

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    Personally my PFL with MRC stage 1 and secondary decats was pretty immense. Massively more faster than stock. £750. If flush with cash then go balls out and stage 3.

    I’m a pretty sensible driver on the road so for me getting intercooler and/or stage 2 I didn’t see as worth it. Another £2k for 30hp was too much for me.
     
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