Oil pump questions / future proofing

[Deleted member 138002]

Evening all,

I've seen a few forum posts mentioning issues with the 2.0TFSI oil pump. Is there an intrinsic design issue with them, and if so, how can I try to mitigate it on mine? I saw a link to this kit which claims to remove the (allegdly) problematic sprung loaded balance shaft sproclet, and replace it with a solid sprocket:

Will this help future proof the oil pump? Engine is currently on 122k, and I plan on changing the cam chain + tensioner, and fitting the revised oil pickup pipe, so am tempted to have the mechanic do this at the same time if it will help, unless there any other suggestions? I've seen people fit the 1.8T oil pump, but would rather try and improve the existing one if possible. I'm not sure if its relevant, but my A4 is the Special Edition and has the BUL engine in it which allegedly had some improvements, not sure if the oil pump was addressed too as I know the cam design was changed to reduce wear on the follower for the HPFP.

Any help and insight is much appreciated as I'm still getting to know these engines, and plan to keep the car for a long time to come.

Best Regards,
Ben

 

[Sidrick]

Looked into this a bit when I bought my BUL, on 105k miles. The general consensus was that if it's not happened by now, then you've got a good'un and the cost of a potentially unnecessary tear down isn't worth the risk or benefit at this age.

 

[Deleted member 138002]

So your advice would be stick with cam chain + tensioner, and fit the revised pick up and leave the oil pump alone?

 

[Sidrick]

I'm not advising anything, just passing on what I'd read I read similar about the oil pickup. Why would it suddenly become an issue at 120k, or 180k, if not at 60k or 100k?

What's wrong with your chain and tensioner?

Lots and lots and lots of scare stories about this motor on the internet. If you replaced every part that 'could' go wrong you'd spend enough to buy another car or two if you didn't replace any of it.

 

[Deleted member 138002]

Parts wear, and items with a known design defect are more likely to fail than a more appropriately designed equivalent. Just because someone is lucky and their parts don't fail early, doesn't mean they will last indefinitely, and after 12 years and 122k miles I'm looking to keep it going.

The current chain makes some noise on startup as oil pressure increases and tensioner moves up, and goes quiet within 1 second, so there may well already be some slack on the chain, and having done a few years on the extended service interval in its early life with no evidence of a change, it makes sense to do it. A friend of mine, and a fellow forum user here has just spent £2k on a top end rebuild because of his chain snapping!

I know its easy to chase mechanical soundness on a car, and a balance has to be struck, but I'd like to get these 3 known engine defects sorted on this car seeing as I plan to keep it for the duration, which I think makes sense.

 

[Sidrick]

It's easy to chase and impossible to achieve. I'm as guilty as anyone for OTT preventative maintenance...

I'd ask Audi for tolerances and do some testing prior to swapping out good, non-consumable parts on a motor that has ran fine for 12 years.

That said, all the best and keep us posted. What was the question again?

 

[Charlie Farley]

The main cause of the cam chain wear is poor oil pressure /flow getting to the tensioner, which is part and parcel of poor oil quality.
The long life service schedule is part of this problem as owners don't fully appreciate how important regular oil and filter changers are to these engines, they are happy to let there engines run on for miles and miles , way over what is really ideal , the oil gets really contaminated as a result, anadd to that short stop start trips when the engine never gets to full operating temp just adds to the problem.

Thick and contaminated oil just blocks the oilways thus leading to reduced pressure /flow to the tensioner, wear then increases much more rapidly to the chain and sprockets which in turn leads to a whole raft of other problems including pump failure , and top end failure, engine failure.
It's not so much a design problem with the tensioner , its how the engine is looked after over its lifetime.
Cam chain's don't stretch but due to there location they are effected by thermal expansion and contraction but that is to to be expected and a fully operating tensioner will control this factor.
But they do wear around the rollers etc and the sprocket teeth then wear down giving the impression the chain has stretched.

All the time the tensioner is getting decent quality oil in the right quantity at the right pressure there's no problem, but if you buy a used car you wont know what condition its in and its allways possible that excessive wear had been done early on in the engines life, that's is where the problem stems from.

So in summary if your unsure on it history irrespective of milage it may be wise to check it first for excessive slack , then replace it .

 

[Charlie Farley]

Then we're back to the oil suction pipe, same applies blocked / clogged mesh will stave the pump of vital oil , and that then effect everything else in the lubrication cycle inc the cam chain tensioner, so you can see how crucial good regular oil and filter changes are.

A lot of owners have done the suction pipe mods and still had engine issues .

 

[Sid2go]

VIS motorsports sells a balance shaft delete kit. I "believe" it disconnects the two balance shafts, the benefits i "think" is slight increase in oil pressure and quick rev deceleration instead of the slow rev hang. the only downside is increased engine vibration which a crankshaft fluid damper wheel help a little.

I am running a BUL engine with a revision oil pickup pipe and its at 140,000miles.

 

[antwan64og]

I'm not advising anything, just passing on what I'd read I read similar about the oil pickup. Why would it suddenly become an issue at 120k, or 180k, if not at 60k or 100k?

What's wrong with your chain and tensioner?

Lots and lots and lots of scare stories about this motor on the internet. If you replaced every part that 'could' go wrong you'd spend enough to buy another car or two if you didn't replace any of it.

They’re not just scare stories

 

[antwan64og]

The main cause of the cam chain wear is poor oil pressure /flow getting to the tensioner, which is part and parcel of poor oil quality.
The long life service schedule is part of this problem as owners don't fully appreciate how important regular oil and filter changers are to these engines, they are happy to let there engines run on for miles and miles , way over what is really ideal , the oil gets really contaminated as a result, anadd to that short stop start trips when the engine never gets to full operating temp just adds to the problem.

Thick and contaminated oil just blocks the oilways thus leading to reduced pressure /flow to the tensioner, wear then increases much more rapidly to the chain and sprockets which in turn leads to a whole raft of other problems including pump failure , and top end failure, engine failure.
It's not so much a design problem with the tensioner , its how the engine is looked after over its lifetime.
Cam chain's don't stretch but due to there location they are effected by thermal expansion and contraction but that is to to be expected and a fully operating tensioner will control this factor.
But they do wear around the rollers etc and the sprocket teeth then wear down giving the impression the chain has stretched.

All the time the tensioner is getting decent quality oil in the right quantity at the right pressure there's no problem, but if you buy a used car you wont know what condition its in and its allways possible that excessive wear had been done early on in the engines life, that's is where the problem stems from.

So in summary if your unsure on it history irrespective of milage it may be wise to check it first for excessive slack , then replace it .

As Rob alluded the oil galleries seem to clog up with sludge if the car has been subject to long life oil changes.
Changing the oil at any point in the future may flush the sludge out.....
DI engines run relatively hot breaking down oil quicker, high frequency oil changes are recommended.

I had manually cleaned the oil galleries out and fitted a 1.8t oil pump 500miles before the engine grenaded. Changeing big end bearings in hindsight may have been a good idea, lol

 

[Charlie Farley]

Changing the oil doesn't allways mean blocked oil galaries will automatically be cleared, and by the time the engine oil does get changed the damage has most likely already been done.
Allways best to do as much as possible to prevent the problem occurring to start with really, frequent oil and oil filter changes with good oil are a must .

 

[antwan64og]

Changing the oil doesn't allways mean blocked oil galaries will automatically be cleared, and by the time the engine oil does get changed the damage has most likely already been done.
Allways best to do as much as possible to prevent the problem occurring to start with really, frequent oil and oil filter changes with good oil are a must .

What I meant is that if you inherit an abused car its an unknown factor, its known the issue seems to surface around 100k for the unlucky ones.

All you can do is regular oil changes and with that reliability actually seems quite good *regarding the oil pump*