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MikeA3

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Anyone else seen the news about this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

Police have confirmed that plain clothes officers have shot an asian man on the tube, apparently he ran onto the train closely followed by three plain clothes officers who jumped on him and shot him five times!!!

That'll teach him to pay the correct fair
 
Apparently, armed police have also surrounded a Mosque in East london!!
 
IMO Police would have only returned fire.

The five shots "heard" by witnesses would probably have been three shots from the terrorist after he tripped, the other two would have been a double tap to either the chest or head by one officer. That is the protocol that Police would use.

It does not sound viable to say that 3 armed police officers pummelled this guy 5 times whilst he was already on the floor "tripped" unless they have a real sh!tty shot!

Interesting stuff...
 
Here we go again.....

It seems that one of my colleagues was sitting directly opposite the guy when he got shot.

Needless to say the stories I've heard via work from people that have talked to him are different to the ones in the news.

With journalists parked outside our office for Warren Street, and this - it's getting a little close for comfort....

Security had to remove two people from Virgin Radio off part of the office roof last night. The journalist was pleading to let them stay fro two more minutes so she could give her report on the 6:30 news!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
 
One of the blokes who failed yesterday to detonate his package, returning to finish the job, and failed, thank god.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here we go again.....

It seems that one of my colleagues was sitting directly opposite the guy when he got shot.

Needless to say the stories I've heard via work from people that have talked to him are different to the ones in the news

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the story you heard then (from the guy sat opposite) ?

[ QUOTE ]
Security had to remove two people from Virgin Radio off part of the office roof last night. The journalist was pleading to let them stay fro two more minutes so she could give her report on the 6:30 news!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha Ha Ha- Can't fault her for trying to get an exclusive and maybe further her career....
 
[ QUOTE ]
If true............

That's the sort of justice I like to see,,, and the only sort they deserve!

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I have to agree.

Also I could not see British police shooting someone without reason, they are too well trained!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Also I could not see British police shooting someone without reason, they are too well trained!

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As per what I was saying... Now tell us the darn story that the news dont have.....
 
Very busy day at work sorry guys.


Beware - slightly gory description ahead....


The story I've heard is he was shot in the head no questions asked. Guy's girlfriend was covered in blood and bits of skull/bone.

Seems that brain matter is yellow rather than grey....

They've been with the Police all day (unsurprisingly). Apparently it all happened very quickly, so they weren't sure whether the man who was killed was already on the train or jumped on at Stockwell.

That's what I know at the moment. Girlfriend seemed very calm - but maybe the shock hasn't set in yet.

It's a bit different to the 'he was on the ground, having been jumped on after getting on the train' that I've seen in the news.

If I've built it up too much - sorry - but heh - I'm a n00b!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif

Dazzler

PS: got pcitures of the Virgin Radio journo and the news crews outside my office if you are _really_ interested.
 
If police did shot to kill i would not be fussed if the man was indeed a terrorist, what you have got to bear in mind is if the police think he has got explosives on his body there not going to wait for the idiot to detonate it and kill inocent people there just going to blast him in the head and then go get there dunking donuts and coffee and read the papers. As for the rumours about the police discriminating against asians all i have to say about that is, that if it was sexy white silver tt drivers going round killing innocent people then obviously the police would be searching me and i would appreciate and understand why, its not discrimanating its just going on the evidence that they have.
 
Think how brave it is to rush towards someone you think is armed with a bomb & willing to detonate it. Let's face it, every one of us would be going the other fcuking way, very fcuking fast.

I for one hope those police officers get commendations.
 
wasnt a bomber from yesterday but clearly a man either high up in the ranks or was about to detonate himslef-

i doubt we 'the public' will ever find out what really went on as if they really wanted him for info they cud have drugged him with the truth serum CTU style but he was clearly an immediate threat on human life!

this stuff really needs to end and i saw something very interesting on sky news:

THE MAJORITY OF THE BRITISH PUBLIC OPPOSED THE SO CALL WAR ON TERROR AND THUS THESE BRITISH BORN TERRORSITS HAVE NO ESSENCE TO THEIR BARBARIC CAUSE!


another thing i have to mention is that calling them 'british born asians' is quite detremental to the rest ofus who are asians and bot muslims! but unfortunatley its something we r gonna have to live with and i think its true that muslim community need to root these murderers out!
 
[ QUOTE ]
wasnt a bomber from yesterday but clearly a man either high up in the ranks or was about to detonate himslef-

i doubt we 'the public' will ever find out what really went on as if they really wanted him for info they cud have drugged him with the truth serum CTU style but he was clearly an immediate threat on human life!

this stuff really needs to end and i saw something very interesting on sky news:

THE MAJORITY OF THE BRITISH PUBLIC OPPOSED THE SO CALL WAR ON TERROR AND THUS THESE BRITISH BORN TERRORSITS HAVE NO ESSENCE TO THEIR BARBARIC CAUSE!


another thing i have to mention is that calling them 'british born asians' is quite detremental to the rest ofus who are asians and bot muslims! but unfortunatley its something we r gonna have to live with and i think its true that muslim community need to root these murderers out!

[/ QUOTE ]


Please bear in mind that was a TV PROGRAM!
police/Mi5 or possibly the SAS had seconds to make a jugment call, they guy refused to stop he payed the price IF he was a terrorist he deserved all he got , if he was inocent well he has payed a very heavy price for ignoring the athoritys
Yip ure right its not right all asians are tarred with the same brush , i have a friends who are asians and want nothing to do with the scum killing in the name of there GOD! we can only hope they are found before they do any more damage !
 
in my opinion...... the asian/muslim community will have to help out.if they dont flush out these lunatics from their close knit communitys, im afraid people will start to mistrust and fear all asian/muslim groups.....even more so then at present.
i for one, am willing to hold out a hand of friendship and trust to these people and hope that maybe, through this, they can expose these western haters (who choose to live in the west ???), and finally ,somthing good can come out of all of this......
i would love to see unity between our cultures, but as long as there is a chosen segeregation,on both parts, we are still dealing with an "us against them" situation.
its time to work together, otherwise people are going to start with mistrust, and narrow minded hatred......
were all not in agood place right now, times are uncertain, and unless we want this thing to escalate into a civil war, we need to work together.
im sure any one who is british will agree, whatever religeous background or color of skin, we are british and we dont want this.
seperate schools, seperate streets and parts of town.... it all has to stop. if it doest, then it remains us against them. if we are all british, lets act like it and stop this segregation. its breading fear and is no good.
these hate preachers ??? get them out, back were they came from or if they are british.... have them arrested and locked up for treason or somthing.... the law has to change.
human rights ??? W.T.F ???
were talking about innocent people dying, too close to home or for some of us, at home...
things have to change.
i dont mean to sound narrow minded here but our culture has to be repected here...we all to concerned with respecting everyone elses cultures that our own has become somthing we are made to feel ashamed of ??? no st georges flags, no christmas, etc..etc....
every one else seems to be proud of their skin whilst white people have to remain quiet, unproud, unmentioned....taboo even????
mobo awards ??? what about mowo ?? all asian schools ??? what if somone dared to suggest all white schools ???
i dont want these things, but its the fact that im made to feel that i cannot celebrate my culture or skin colour without causing the most shocking offense that bothers me......whislt all other groups and minoritys are positively encouraged to celebrate theirs. ???? it just seems unfair and unjust.

i just dont know any more... im confused by it all..... all i can work with is what society throws at me, and right now, im getting mixed signals.

im not rascist, its not about skin colour, its about cultures and religeon and people learning to get along reguardless of these issues.....and im talking about people on both sides of the fence here..... the world would be such a better place without religeon., which im my opinion is a load of garbage anyway which has caused wars and misery and taken the lives of millions of people .
people need to understand that life is about living, and getting on with one another.



not bad typing for one left hand.
 
Well sayd myzeneye , i agree with 99% of the above statemant , but have a differance with a few ideas , BUT thats the beautifull thing of living in a democracy! we can dissagree with out fear of penaltys/repisals/state police or even religous police coming to see us!

People have the right in this country to dissagree with the politians ,stand and get elected and change the rules ,BUT they must do it legaly not strap explosives on and go kill inocent people ! do they not read history books?

Just look at the IRA , they got no where bombing , now they have gave up killing they are in parliment ELECTED MP's! trying to change there situation from the inside ! im not saying wot the IRA did before was right or wrong wot im trying to hi light is that now they are making a legal approch and are getting some where! (they just need to get a grip of certain members )
 
Well I guess most people will know this by now but it looks like the guy shot by police had nothing to do with any bombings and was in fact an electrician from brazil !!

I might be openig a very big can of worms here but whats everyone's reaction to this?? - was it necessary for the police to use lethal force?

IMO - I don't think the police were at fault at all, they had him under surveillance and had shouted at him to stop but he ran away - They believed that he had a bomb and responded accordingly. I just don't understand why you would run away from the armed police??

Mike
 
I think if the police had only just come across this person in the tube station and thought he was going to detonate a bomb i guess it could be justified. as he ran from police. Although note he may have just been running for a train and not realised the plain clothes police were shouting at him. But i guess the full reports will clarify this. But what i dont get is that from what i have heard on TV the guy was followed from when he left his house? I haven't read the broadsheets to confirm this but if true, why not stop him before he gets into station? Why give him the chance to run and a) possible detonate a bomb - imagine he had been a suicide bomber and managed to get into tube system with bomb and detonated it after being followed from his house! b) kill and innocent person running for a train.


I think my trip to london next will involve me walking very slowly around london without wearing a jacket with my arms away from my body ready to drop to the ground at any moment.

Can't believe this is the way of the world in Britain now and we seem to be all taking it as okay (its pretty easy to spout on about british stoaicism as an mp who doesn't travel around on public transport!) that the police are being put in a position to make such split second decisions with tragic consequences and then have our home sectretary and head of police claim that its bound to happen with our war on terrorism!

BTW - notice how some of our british media have stopped reporting as vociferously about the deaths of the iraqi public. I don't justify it terrorism, but put yourself in their shoes, and is their country really better off now? Although maybe i am in the minority as quite a few people on a radio program i was listening to had the opinion that "why should we care if they are killing themselves and can't accept that we are trying to help them!"

I despair!
 
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They believed that he had a bomb and responded accordingly. I just don't understand why you would run away from the armed police??

Mike

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Why run, particularly after all that has happened!
 
Although an innocent man was killed, the police had to make a split second decision, and despite multiple warnings, the man (who came from a block of flats that was under surveillance, was wearing a thick jacket in the summer) ran from armed police, so they really did have no alternative. Not only did a innocent man die, but the police offices have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they pretty much executed an innocent, law abiding man! The other way to look at this is what if they did nothing, and then he detonated a bomb and killed many people. They just can’t win and there will always be a negative outcome unfortunately. I would not want to make that call.. Would you?

Also got to feel for the poeple who witnessed it. It wasnt 5 shots in the body (which would have been relatively clean) but was 5 open head shots which for sure would have made a real mess and would have splattered witnesses. Not a pleasent thing to see on TV, seeing it for real would mess you up, and being splattere with bits of the victim, would screw you up for quiote some time.

Rich
 
[ QUOTE ]
Although an innocent man was killed, the police had to make a split second decision, and despite multiple warnings, the man (who came from a block of flats that was under surveillance, was wearing a thick jacket in the summer) ran from armed police, so they really did have no alternative. Not only did a innocent man die, but the police offices have to live the rest of their lives knowing that they pretty much executed an innocent, law abiding man! The other way to look at this is what if they did nothing, and then he detonated a bomb and killed many people. They just can’t win and there will always be a negative outcome unfortunately. I would not want to make that call.. Would you?

Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

These are wise and well-considered words, Rich. It is a terrible tragedy that an innocent man has died, but the true culprits of this tragedy are not the brave police officers who acted in good faith on a split-second's assessment of the potential risks not just to them but the general public. The cuplrits are those who would wish to destroy our way of life.

Those who rush to condemn those officers, be thankful instead that they are willing to make those judgments (and stand by them when they are later exposed as wrong), so that you do not have to.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Can't believe this is the way of the world in Britain now and we seem to be all taking it as okay (its pretty easy to spout on about british stoicism as an mp who doesn't travel around on public transport!)



[/ QUOTE ]

Just because MPs don't use public transport doesn't mean they're not at risk from terrorist bombs. Remember the Tory Party Conference, Brighton 1984? Remember Airey Neave, blown up by a car bomb inside the House of Commons Car Park, May 1979?
 
[ QUOTE ]
"Meanwhile, it has emerged Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, who was killed in error by police on Friday, was in Britain on an out-of-date student visa. "

BBC news

blimey- chose risk of death over returning to Brazil

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, that will teach those illegal immigrants.... :)) (sorry my sense of humour is getting the better of me again...)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Meanwhile, it has emerged Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, who was killed in error by police on Friday, was in Britain on an out-of-date student visa. "

BBC news

blimey- chose risk of death over returning to Brazil

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, that will teach those illegal immigrants.... :)) (sorry my sense of humour is getting the better of me again...)

[/ QUOTE ]

tut tut!

You belong on the PopBitch wesite:- "33,29......a few more buse bombs and ill have my lottery numbers!!"
 
i fully support the actions of the police officers. they did what they did totally for the right reasons. a mistake was made, not by the officers but by the brazillian guy. if he'd of stopped when told, he'd still be alive...... interagated, held in a cell for questioning, maybe even deported back to brazil, but still alive. his mistake.
if the law was this tough on all occaisions we'd have less crime full stop. i abide with the law, i have nothing to fear in supporting such a method of policing.
put yourself in the police officers shoes........
after the bombings and the second failed attempted bombings, your watching a house were know terrorist suspects live..... an occupant of the steakout emerges from the house on a hot day with a huge coat on, zipped up..... and i beleive a bag/rucksack....... you follow him cautiously, and to you horror, he is heading straight for the underground...... when you challenge him (id imagine, shouting "stop,armed police") he runs, jumping the turnstyles heading in to a place jamm packed with more poeple....more potential fatalitys.... the place where he has more potential to do more damage...

what do you do.......

you shoot him in the leg.....he sets off the bomb.
you shoot him in the body..... he sets off the bomb
you shoot him in the head...... he,s dead....... the witnesses are shocked, but there alive to complain about it.

with the information they had, they made the right choice.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Meanwhile, it has emerged Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, who was killed in error by police on Friday, was in Britain on an out-of-date student visa. "

BBC news

blimey- chose risk of death over returning to Brazil

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, that will teach those illegal immigrants.... :)) (sorry my sense of humour is getting the better of me again...)

[/ QUOTE ]

if it werent for the illegal immigrants you couldnt get a beer in london! and that is with the fear of returning to aus and sth africa! along with argentina and brazil all great places!
 
there are to many friggin do gooders in the world...... humans rights ???? WTF ???
i was listening to a guy today on the jeremy vine show ( radio 2)... theres a bunch of people who liken themselves to conciensious objectors and refuse to pay the portion of there tax which goes to the ministry of defence..... they say they dont support the murder of innocents or any murder full stop. and they dont want any responsibility in the deaths of others by supporting the m.o.d with funds.

all i can say is that when the kak hits the fan, these people will want protecting. whislt i dont agree with the reasons for the war in iraq, i cannot say that i dont support the men and women who defend our country and our way of life. just because a war isnt fought on your doorstep, doesent mean it doesnt affect you. theese people do a damn fine job and deserve our support and admiration.

these do godders want to listen to themselves, if ,god forbid, the terror attacks in the u.k increase, i for one want all the protection i can get, and am happy to fund it through my taxes.
there will be plenty of people saying they should of arreseted the brazillian guy before he reached the station, and they should of took him in for questions (and tea and cakes) but they never did.
the humans rights policy is a joke....once your found guilty of any charges, your human rights should cease.
whats happened to saddam ??? who knows ??? human right posse are probably giving him a manacure as we speak......

its wrong. the law should be made black and white.....break it, and your in big trouble.
big crimes like murder, death sentance by lethal injection.
smaller but still serious crimes should carry life sentances....life meaning life imprisenment.
petty crimes should carry long prison sentences....
and prison should be bad. soletary, hard labour, not a friggin long stay in a travel lodge.
maybe this will bring a new respect to thye law and the police law enforcers.... no ones scared of it anymore....i personally think it should be made so that people fear it....who know, it may cut down on crime.

sorry....rant over.
 
I was under the impression Australia took a hard line against illegal immigration,
can you buy beer in Sydney?

In all seriousness there must be more to this storey, pictures released tonight
of Jean Charles showed him to be a pretty normal looking bloke. Who I'm sure
would have been aware of the bombings the fortnight before and the attempts
the day before. Why did he run??

Maybe completely untrue but sounds reasonable to me that in NI back during the
troubled times, if intel came in that a suspect bomber was likely to pass through a
chekpoint the military police would be temporarily replaced with SAS. Should the
said suspect try to pass through the officer would lean in the cab and unload 5-7
shots, no questions. Have their been any pictures of the shooter, be it CCTV or
mobile phone???
 
justice system is a joke anyway,

apparently there was something dodgy on the 'inteligence' the police received, apparently they weren't surveying him or they would have know what was going on! they only picked him out cos he was dark and had a coat on,

agree the position the officers were in had to do that, they're

thats the intelligence fault

really its not right to go around with orders to pick off anyone you think isn't right shoot first ask questions later
is exactly what they're doing, which afaik is the britain that we call our own

whether your law abiding or not, this justice system's got it in for you
 

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