New Possible Emissions Scandal to Petrol Engines

DrEskimo

Registered User
Reading about this earlier...

Seems to be linked to cars with the 8-speed tiptronic. I wondered why the new S5 has now shifted from the S-Tronic to a tiptronic...now I have a theory!

Such a disgrace....
 

GSB

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter

adamss24

Registered User
The same issue appears to extend to diesel too.

U.S. regulator found another cheat device in Audi car - report - Reuters
https://apple.news/AwhU5xRFtRnay-Wndw9EM2A
YOU guys are blindfolded, any automatic car which idles and has a smart gearbox will do that as turning the steering wheel/power steering is LOAD on engine so the engine revs will drop and possibly stall the engine, just like switching on the aircon on idle on smaller engined cars ! With so many power saving devices to meet stringent emissions, car manufacturers need to spend big money in R&D in order to fulfil new buyers requests who buy new cars just by reading a brochure ! Just remember that the laws of thermodynamics cannot be broken so what goes in needs to go out ! All this malarkey It has naff all to do with emissions, just imagine that the newest engines ECU's are sophisticated that they can allow very lean burns yet need to be flexible enough to give you rich lambda as when you flooring your new, fancy sports car from traffic lights ! If you want an economical car from the onset just go and buy a smart or Vw up, it's built from the driving board to not pull the skin off a rice pudding !
 

WarwickL

Registered User
Agree...who drives a S3 or RS and watches his fuel stats..

That isn't and never has been the issue though (although it is hilarious how most of the 'gauges' on the S3 are fuel use related and virtually none are performance related).

The issue is VAG's repeated and flagrant abuse of technology to cheat the systems.

From their initial denials of dieselgate (VAG AU still deny there was a cheat device) to painfully slow attempts at fixing the issues for owners to the widening 'cheats' across other VAG brands.

Edit - oh and it was the magical 15 degree off centre that sparked interest by authorities and that removal of code occurred at a very interesting timing in VAG history ;)
 
Last edited:

GSB

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
YOU guys are blindfolded, any automatic car which idles and has a smart gearbox will do that as turning the steering wheel/power steering is LOAD on engine so the engine revs will drop and possibly stall the engine, just like switching on the aircon on idle on smaller engined cars ! With so many power saving devices to meet stringent emissions, car manufacturers need to spend big money in R&D in order to fulfil new buyers requests who buy new cars just by reading a brochure ! Just remember that the laws of thermodynamics cannot be broken so what goes in needs to go out ! All this malarkey It has naff all to do with emissions, just imagine that the newest engines ECU's are sophisticated that they can allow very lean burns yet need to be flexible enough to give you rich lambda as when you flooring your new, fancy sports car from traffic lights ! If you want an economical car from the onset just go and buy a smart or Vw up, it's built from the driving board to not pull the skin off a rice pudding !

Blindfolded eh? Personally, I prefer to retain my well proven view that that the auto industry as a whole is morally bankrupt and has been caught time and time again cheating to get round environmental law.

The notion of increasing load due to steering movement and the governed response to maintain engine rpm's at idle is well known. This functionality has been built into cars for decades. But this is not what we're talking about here. Unless VAG are using power steering pumps the size of a dustbin and with the power capacity to run a JCB, then they have no need to adopt an entirely different 8 speed gear shifting strategy to accommodate the additional load it places on the power train.

They're cheating. If I'm wearing a blindfold, then it's a VAG blindfold equipped with a defeat device offering 20-20 vision just so long as I don't turn my head further than 15degrees or forget to hold doors open for ladies.
 

adamss24

Registered User
All New cars in vag range have electric power steering pumps and on demand alternators + stop start technology, it's because if that the loads on engine at idle are disconnected however, give it a bit of input and the electronic sensors are sending info to the computer which needs to do the calculations in real time ! I do not know if you're familiar with the way auto gearboxes work but they have built in hydraulic pumps to press the clutch packs together and with the 7 speeds DSG they even select lower and higher gear for you AT THE SAME TIME ! Add auto wipers, auto lights and parking sensors, rear view cameras and the load demand on the alternator is quite high as the electronics needs to be feed in order to give you functionality of moving a lever or flicking a switch !
 

adamss24

Registered User
Also do you buy a car just by reading the brochure ? I bet you are eager to take said car on a test drive so you can feel the blend of materials, the way it takes corners and worry less about fuel consumption . So far German marques are leading the field in R&D and with tough competition from Japanese and Koreean car manufacturers, it's a tough job of giving you the tactile feeling you're expecting from a prestige marque ! I fix cars for a living and if you take any car from the cheap end of the market and compare it with ANY German cheap offering you will notice the differences as soon as you slam the door ! Also check dynamics of cheap cars on motorway then you understand where the money go ! Wind noise, extra insulation, dynamic ride control at speeds of over 100ph, and you soon run into issues as metal fatigue, adequate cooling and the like ! So far German marques are using high quality steels throughout the manufacturing processes and all them little touches add up and take the costs. When was the last time you replaced an exhaust on a Vag car for example ? I have seen 3 years old French cars which required a full exhaust due to metal perforation due to rust...also you don't get one touch leccy windows, ergonomic seats and AC that actually works in 30-40 Celsius ! I also bet you don't drive much on the continent as I do which will make you understand how fresh you still feel after continuously driving 600-800 mile at a time ! You all take that for granted, stop moaning and go and fricking buy a shoe box from French or Italians and make sure you ask for breadsticks with it as well !
 

WarwickL

Registered User
Oh FFS

VAG cheated, lied about cheating, are trying their hardest to avoid fixing their cheats and impacts on customers.

Indefensible.

There must be some VAG management posting in here :)

I've owned a new GTI, new R and now a new S3. I enjoy the cars. Great tech.

However, the company is an absolute craphouse of cheats.

LOL
 

Martinbanshee

Registered User
Also do you buy a car just by reading the brochure ? I bet you are eager to take said car on a test drive so you can feel the blend of materials, the way it takes corners and worry less about fuel consumption . So far German marques are leading the field in R&D and with tough competition from Japanese and Koreean car manufacturers, it's a tough job of giving you the tactile feeling you're expecting from a prestige marque ! I fix cars for a living and if you take any car from the cheap end of the market and compare it with ANY German cheap offering you will notice the differences as soon as you slam the door ! Also check dynamics of cheap cars on motorway then you understand where the money go ! Wind noise, extra insulation, dynamic ride control at speeds of over 100ph, and you soon run into issues as metal fatigue, adequate cooling and the like ! So far German marques are using high quality steels throughout the manufacturing processes and all them little touches add up and take the costs. When was the last time you replaced an exhaust on a Vag car for example ? I have seen 3 years old French cars which required a full exhaust due to metal perforation due to rust...also you don't get one touch leccy windows, ergonomic seats and AC that actually works in 30-40 Celsius ! I also bet you don't drive much on the continent as I do which will make you understand how fresh you still feel after continuously driving 600-800 mile at a time ! You all take that for granted, stop moaning and go and fricking buy a shoe box from French or Italians and make sure you ask for breadsticks with it as well !

My god, I don't know about blindfolds but you're seriously blinkered.
 

h5djr

Registered User
VCDS Map User
Gold Supporter
Does anyone know how many US manufactures cars have been tested or is this just aimed a successful EU models.
 

adamss24

Registered User
Oh FFS

VAG cheated, lied about cheating, are trying their hardest to avoid fixing their cheats and impacts on customers.

Indefensible.

There must be some VAG management posting in here :)

I've owned a new GTI, new R and now a new S3. I enjoy the cars. Great tech.

However, the company is an absolute craphouse of cheats.

LOL
Go and buy a Vauxhall then !
 

WarwickL

Registered User
Go and buy a Vauxhall then !

Rather difficult here.

No idea what your point was but keep on defending, it's entertaining everyone :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSB

adamss24

Registered User
Does anyone know how many US manufactures cars have been tested or is this just aimed a successful EU models.
Toyota had The same fate when they sold more cars in US than GM ! What does it tells you ? The Toyota lost a colossal amount of money recalling over 1 million cars for alleged brake pedal /accelerator pedal issues, they just could not live with bad press ! VAG group on the other hand stuck two fingers at the old boys as the American market is small potatoes compared with the cars they sell worldwide ! I see a déjà vu, maybe you remember Alfa Romeo and their decision to stop selling cars in UK, VAG group just won't do the same as many stay loyal to the brand and that's says volumes ! There are cars and there are German cars, you can ride along in an econo box however once you tried German, you cannot go back !
 

WarwickL

Registered User
Actually VAG openly said the USA market was their main goal and a driver for their cheats.

The only way they could compete and enter the market, illegally.
 

adamss24

Registered User
Read above re GM... It's only Toyota that changed mindsets in USA, they been trying to change perceptions in small witted RedNecks minds for 40 years, they still haven't succeeded ! Then along came ze Germans ! And they took it for granted...most of the roads were already paved by the Japanese !
 

WarwickL

Registered User
Read above re GM... It's only Toyota that changed mindsets in USA, they been trying to change perceptions in small witted RedNecks minds for 40 years, they still haven't succeeded ! Then along came ze Germans ! And they took it for granted...most of the roads were already paved by the Japanese !

You really have no idea do you :)

VAG cheated to access a market

They continue to cheat but lost the market

Toyota have cracked the USA market (we lived there for four years) without cheating

VAG have NFI and haven't nor will ever touch it. Their cheat scandal cemented that.

Your defence is bizarre but entertaining
 
  • Like
Reactions: GSB

adamss24

Registered User
There is no competition in USA for Vag group, Ford only sells 50 years design old petrol engines 6 L or so with measly 200-300 Bhp and v8 Diesel engines in their trucks which would not pass emissions in any other country but US... They are so lucky euro 5 is not implemented to their cars ! With euro models they are happy to buy engines from PSA or Isuzu and slap a badge over ! Talk about corporations and globalisation !
 

WarwickL

Registered User
There is no competition in USA for Vag group, Ford only sells 50 years design old petrol engines 6 L or so with measly 200-300 Bhp and v8 Diesel engines in their trucks which would not pass emissions in any other country but US... They are so lucky euro 5 is not implemented to their cars ! With euro models they are happy to buy engines from PSA or Isuzu and slap a badge over ! Talk about corporations and globalisation !

Man, get off the VAG drugs.

None of what you said has any empirical data to back it up, no credible marketing data to extrapolate, no actual validation technically.

I'll leave you to your nonsensical non-cheat meandering.

Enjoy
 
Last edited:

GSB

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
A great deal of generally very ill informed stuff...

Jesus....

Yes, oddly enough I'm familiar with the way gearboxes work.

No, German cars are not automatically better than cars from any other nation. Mercedes for instance went through a sustained period where they exhibited build quality and corrosion resistance that was so bad it made 1970's Alfa Romeos look thoroughly robust.

I've owned French cars, many of them. None of them has proven to be a money pit of reliability or quality issues. My last one cost me £7000 to buy new, and used the sum total of 2 part exhausts, 1 catalytic converter, 3 sets of tyres, 2 radiators and three sets of brakes in over 100k miles and 18 years.

If you want to talk about dynamics and control I can point you to any number of Japanese and indeed French cars that make the Audi A3 feel like it's overweight, over-priced, underdamped, and set up with a chassis thats heavily biased toward 'feeling like an Audi' i.e. Nose heavy...

I've driven cars of all types and ages on the continent, from a 40 year old 1.0 mk1 Ford Fiesta, through 50's racecars, kitcars, trucks, 80's supercars, modern supercars, and everyday Japanese, Italian, British, American and German cars all over the continent, from Denmark to Gibraltar. The best car I've ever driven for 'freshness' was a Mazda 6, so debunking the theory that the Germans superior steel and one touch windows is key to a happy life. Oddly, none of these cars ever failed through any kind of metal fatigue issues.

Alfa didn't pull out of the UK, Lancia did.

American manufacturers had a proven record of cheating their own emissions laws long before VAG or Toyota showed up.

Americans can and do build decent engines. They can now build decent cars too. Your stereotype, whilst fun for winding up Americans, is hopelessly out of date.

If you want to discuss thermodynamics, pleas go and buy a book and study the subject first.

Try to construct a reasoned and researched argument, since most of what you are saying is complete bunk, and if there's an intelligent intellect there trying to make a point, it's really not coming across that way...
 

GSB

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
Rather difficult here.

No idea what your point was but keep on defending, it's entertaining everyone :)

Sadly for you Warwick, I think buying a Vauxhall is still possible in Sunshine state of Queensland. I rented one at Cairns airport a few years ago, and despite the badge change, the Holden Astra was as mediocre a car as it's Vauxhall stablemate... I'd recommend staying clear, but not for any of the reasons @adamss24 is trying (I think) to convey. It's nice enough to look at, it's not even that bad to drive, it even has aircon that can cope with the temperature and humidity there, and one touch windows. Its just ****** boring...
 

WarwickL

Registered User
Sadly for you Warwick, I think buying a Vauxhall is still possible in Sunshine state of Queensland. I rented one at Cairns airport a few years ago, and despite the badge change, the Holden Astra was as mediocre a car as it's Vauxhall stablemate... I'd recommend staying clear, but not for any of the reasons @adamss24 is trying (I think) to convey. It's nice enough to look at, it's not even that bad to drive, it even has aircon that can cope with the temperature and humidity there, and one touch windows. Its just ****** boring...

I was just having a joke mate

Vauxhall (Holden) are massive here and in fact the Aussie variants were fantastic cars for the money.

Monaros, HSV, GTS, XR6T etc were and still are massive BFYB.

I even owned a Torana XU1 decades ago and it is still the best car I've ever owned in terms of a drivers car.

Way ahead of my MY16 S3 in that regard
 

GSB

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
I was just having a joke mate

Vauxhall (Holden) are massive here and in fact the Aussie variants were fantastic cars for the money.

Monaros, HSV, GTS, XR6T etc were and still are massive BFYB.

I even owned a Torana XU1 decades ago and it is still the best car I've ever owned in terms of a drivers car.

Way ahead of my MY16 S3 in that regard

My experience in Holdens is limited to just two types, it's not a marque I've a great deal of experience in. It hardly seems fair we send you the depolorable Astra, a car so dull and devoid of fun every version ought to be painted beige, and in return you send us the other type I've driven, the HSV Clubsport R8. A car so bursting with insanity it ought to be wearing a straightjacket.
 
Top