new member/owner needs help and advice

[rams_s3]

Hi people ive just bought an 2002 s3 225. When i went to view the car it all seemed perfect it was in excellent conditon, full audi history loads and loads of reciepts for various new parts so like you would i bought it! After driving it home about 100miles i pull on to my drive and the engine management light comes on..so i ring the guy i bought it from and he gives me some story about the cam sensor has only just been replaced ut it wasnt a genuine audi part so he suspected it was that at fault again. I decided to have the car plugged in before ordering a new sensor and it came up with 2 faults...p1340 and p0012 the first is the cam/crank position sensor as he said but the second is camshaft timing advance (bank 1) so we decided to ring bosch to check what the problem actually was and they've come back and said that its something to do with the cam chain tensioner or the actually chain that runs the variable valve timing on this engine that is worn and causing the engine to run slightly outside its tolorances therefore triggering the management light. Does anyone know how to rectify this fault and roughly how much its going to cost me??

thanks alot for reading
james

 

[<tuffty/>]

Your fault codes are:
17748/P1340/004928 - Ross-Tech Wiki
This one normally comes when a new cambelt has just been installed and it a tooth out as the camshaft slips back a bit while you are struggling to get the belt on... common as hell and I have done this on mine... just needs the cambelt moving back a notch typically if this has happened to yours...

...and
16396/P0012/000018 - Ross-Tech Wiki
...this suggest the VVT is at fault however it could be related to the other fault code and is a result of what is causing that one...

What was the most recent work (other than the sensor change) that was done? any head work? cambelt? these codes could possibly be the result of an incorrectly timed belt or cam chain...

<tuffty/>

 

[rams_s3]

Thanks...my mate who's the mechanic who tested it spoke to bosch technician today and he was pretty certain that it would be a worn cam chain and that itd require a new chain and tensioner does this sound about right?? Anyone kno a rough price for the kit from audi and what they're like to change

Thanks again!

 

[<tuffty/>]

Timing chain is not too much IIRC... the VVT unit however is pricey... in the £300 region for the part alone...

<tuffty/>

 

[rams_s3]

what actually is the vvt unit? do these fail? the car still runs perfect doesnt miss a beat in fact and goes really well??? is it ok to drive it as i kinda need the car daily? So now im praying its just the chain thats worn and gone slack as the bosch guy said it might.

thanks again!!

 

[Welly]

17748 would normally mean that the engine timing is a tooth out. It really, normally, is that simple.

I'd at least check the engine timing before going gung ho at it and changing the cam chain and VVT Tensioner.

It's not hard to do. Top timing belt cover off, spark plugs out, timing chopstick (my personal preference) down cylinder 1, find TDC, then review the timing mark on the cam sprocket's location in regard to the timing mark on the rocker cover.

This might save you doing £500 worth of work that isn't needed.

 

[<tuffty/>]

^^^ what he said...

You can get away with the timing belt being a tooth out but I wouldn't advise anyone doing that (even though Welly and I do know someone who does!!)

I drove my car a couple of days like this before chickening out but IIRC the CEL came on pretty much straight away unlike yours after its 100mile trip...

As Welly suggests, check the timing belt position... quickest check without removing too much is to remove the cam belt cover, not the easiest thing to do tbh... I have undone it and used a small inspection mirror and a torch to see the timing mark on the pully before... pull the gearbox inspection plug which will allow you to see the TDC mark on the flywheel and line this mark up so its centered in the 'window'... look at the alignment of the cam pulley timing mark against the little mark now visible on the edge of the cam cover (previously hidden by the timing belt cover) and I would put money on the cam pulley mark being behind that by a tooth or so's distance...

When fitting the cam belt it is typical that the cam with the pully on (exhaust cam) will try to settle back from TDC as its under tension from the valve springs etc... you have to tripe check the timing alignment if you are doing one without the VAG tools to hold the cam and flywheel in place..

To make doubly sure you can use the extra steps Welly has said... both methods will give you the answer...

<tuffty/>

 

[s3dave]

Sorry off topic , as anybody got the part no for the gearbox inspection bung thing?

 

[rams_s3]

thanks for the replies guys....just started my s3 from cold with the bonnet up to see if i could hear a rattle coming from the cam belt/chain are and i could! only a short rattle but was definatly there i think i know what this means the vvt unit is goosed? correct?

 

[Alex C]

how long did the rattle last for. I think the VVT works off oil pressure (??), when you first start your car you will have next to no oil pressure. You need to wait untill the oil pressure gets up to the norm before you can expect the chain rattle to dissapear. Did it only rattle for a short time after starting her up?

If i were you i would do as Tufty and Welly have suggested and make sure your timing is ok first, because they say if one is out then the other is likely to be out too. Fix issue #1 and issue #2 fixes itself...

 

[Welly]

how long did the rattle last for. I think the VVT works off oil pressure (??), when you first start your car you will have next to no oil pressure. You need to wait untill the oil pressure gets up to the norm before you can expect the chain rattle to dissapear. Did it only rattle for a short time after starting her up?

Exactly right. It's not uncommon for there to be a slight rattle, if the chain was slack, it would be rattling like crazy, all the time.

Please mate, check the timing before you decide to do anything. It takes very little time to do, isn't hard, and may save you a packet.

 

[rams_s3]

yea after thinking about it, it'd make sense for it to rattle ob start up as there is no oil pressure to make it function to tension it up or whatever it does, if the rattle stops then obviously its working slightly. The timing still could be out then but would this trigger the engine light?......also if the cambelt hadnt been fitted correctly wouldnt the light have been on all the time after refiting the new one the belt was changed 15k ago so surely it cant of been wrong all them miles would it?

many thanks
james

 

[Welly]

yea after thinking about it, it'd make sense for it to rattle ob start up as there is no oil pressure to make it function to tension it up or whatever it does, if the rattle stops then obviously its working slightly. The timing still could be out then but would this trigger the engine light?......also if the cambelt hadnt been fitted correctly wouldnt the light have been on all the time after refiting the new one the belt was changed 15k ago so surely it cant of been wrong all them miles would it?

many thanks
james

I've given my thoughts on the subject.

I think trying to diagnose the problem any further without checking the timing is pointless, as you might be chasing a fault that doesn't exist. On the other hand, it might not be that, but better to be sure IMO.

I speak from first hand experience of this, as does Tuffty. Both of think it's worth checking.

A garage would be able to check the engine timing in a very short time.

 

[rams_s3]

ok thanks for your time...i'll book it in asap for timing check

james