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NEW AET/Badger5 K04-380 (402bhp dyno'd)

badger5 Mar 25, 2016

  1. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    :wink new:

    I just meant the boost could be unleashed earlier in the rpm range.
     
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  3. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    can a 3.5" DP be squeezed into a Quattro car?
     
  4. Miguel_S#

    Miguel_S# Registered User

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    yes
     
  5. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    3.5" at the top but you will struggle to get it past the prop doughnut else I would have tried...

    Mines 3.5" at the top like the Lupo's but then reduces down to 3" to get past the doughnut

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The gap between the doughnut and the DP is about the same both sides give or take... a 3.5" section would leave no room for movement even on vibratechnic mounts...

    The steering rack dictates clearance on the other side else you may have been able to do a little tactical panel beating to add a little clearance

    <tuffty/>
     
    Alex C likes this.
  6. TT Tom TT

    TT Tom TT Registered User

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    It's my understanding that a systems true efficiency is only so as it's most restrictive point, although I don't know whether or not the small expansion chamber reduces turbulent flow out of the turbo reducing in better spooling?
     
  7. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    Bill, this is a 60mm compressor and 55mm turbine correct?

    Pretty special getting over 400hp from something gt28rs sized.
    The lupo must be awesome to drive
     
  8. sam porter

    sam porter Registered User

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    what else would be required for this conversion?, FMIC, wmi, injectors, exhaust manifold, bigger exhaust system, guessing an uprated clutch also, im trying to decide whether to keep my s3 or maybe get a subaru/evo, but the way the prices are lately id rather stick with the s3.
     
  9. Tj 0785

    Tj 0785 Registered User Bronze Supporter Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    You'll need uprated rods aswell and new valves as standard one would stick at that power not sure if wmi is a must but is required to get the best out of a hybrid set up
    Oh and a uprated fuel pump and better brakes
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  10. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    this one is a new one.. not the same spec no. Bigger compressor.
    Not mentioned this one to anyone, as it had'nt been tested until this last week.
     
  11. IrishDave

    IrishDave Registered User

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    Interesting.:atm::euro::bye:
     
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  13. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Prices will be confirmed shortly.

    For others:
    Remember this is ported and "port matched" to our Gen2 manifold 47mm outlet.
    Unless you have the exact same manifold outlet it may not match up as well or perform like ours does.
    Remember our lupo is built by us, turbo, induction kit, 3.5" downpipe, my 80mm TIP, water meth etc etc all is optimised... Flow matched, port matched... every little bit helps.. Its clearly a sweet spot in terms of complementary parts, which is why it has always worked well.. and shows when built to this level, can achieve nice power. Others scratching their heads from behind their laptops calling BS and other nonsense, because they clearly dont understand how these things work systematically. Where read such nonsense comments made by others as to the Lupo always making better than most results insinuating its rigged or fixed and BS, they just do not understand that the mix of parts I've made and used on this car have worked together extremely well.. The end results confirming this. Its a "goodun" thats for sure. Does'nt make the achieved results any less valid because others have'nt been able to do it.

    This AET hbrids name is the clue to what I believe it is capable of on other cars, K04-380.... 380bhp is my anticipated outcome potential from this spec unit. Where our lupo on previous hybrid was 372bhp, we have on many occasions got to within 15-20bhp of lupo on assorted setups, inc my Gen2 and also relentless v4. The spec of the new billet compressor wheel is a 400+bhp capable comp wheel.. There should be no surprises that its capable of producing close to those outcomes in an ideal setup.
     
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  14. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    eh?
    that's irrelevant.. Haldex cars run on my dyno in fwd also.
    the higher boost plot can do a kick of torque if you drive it harder boost wise, BUT whenever this is done it puts a high heatload into the cylinders which has side effects.. All down to how you want to choose to tune it... I prefer always to roll it in.. It gets results and is nice to drive. sustained "shove".

    Remember other folks dyno torque is far happier than my dyno measures.. 280lbft from 16-18psi and rolling up to 335lbft at 23-24psi.

    I fear for the lupos 02J g'box.. We shall see.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    SamHendry likes this.
  15. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    at the top section yea, but it get mighty tight past the prop on rhd cars.. so not possible at the lower end I dont believe.
    Lupos 3.5" DP is top section only, and is 3" as it goes under the subframe.
     
    Alex C likes this.
  16. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Lupo is a std AUM golf engine. Just rodded with an n/a inlet cam.
    If I were to be asked is it replacing the valves on a build, I would obviously say yea, Supertech inconels for exhaust and stainless inlets. If doing a head build at same time as an install.
     
  17. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    62/49 7+7 Billet compressor in this.
    55/49 clipped K16 turbine in ported hotside

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The spec clearly supports good flow. Just needs all its surrounding parts to aid it in achieving them. (same as ANY build)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
    IPG, Pedrosousa and Gops like this.
  18. rallye_turbo

    rallye_turbo Registered User

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    Hi Bill. Any update on pricing yet? Cheers. Paul
     
  19. Gops

    Gops Badger 5 Edition VCDS Map User

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    I think it's a great package! Instead of having your manifold coming from abroad and stinging you with customs tax and the turbo from other places, it comes as one package! From a trusted supplier port matched so you don't have to do that either. I say this because it's probably what takes bulk of the time when you want to build your car. Up to 2 weeks for the manifold to come, a few weeks for the turbo (depending) then sending both off for port matching can take longer. At least with this it comes ready to fit.

    Downpipe just takes time to build and is fiddly, not to mention the demand would mean someone is constantly making them which tbh would be hard to do, but a package sounds good and well rounded off. Hats off mate 402bhp is some real great figures! ****** things are getting quick, good thing I'm GT35!
     
  20. JonnyDerv

    JonnyDerv Registered User

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    Unless Bill has recently changed his mind, he doesn't sell his manifold's anymore, which is why ko4 tuning has become abit of a ballache because only the pro4 is around. Plus Bill's manifold's are made abroad lol ported by him.
     
  21. Gops

    Gops Badger 5 Edition VCDS Map User

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    "Prices and "Package" options will be published shortly, as AET and I discuss and finalise details. The Package will comprise of our Gen2 High Flow exhaust manifold, The Port Matched to our Gen2 manifold K04-380 turbo, and our V2.2 Billet TIP pipe. (our Gen2 manifold not available separately)."

    It's made in China already port matched. The turbo will come port matched to the manifold. It's only available in this package.
     
  22. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    A 400bhp/tonne Lupo.

    I love that.
    Well done.
     
    Gops likes this.
  23. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    not yet, working on getting them.
    soon..
     
  24. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    Half of what you say is true.. I wont, dont supply the manifolds seperately. I do use them on our own builds.. I would never buy a relentless product for obvious reasons..

    However, this new hybrid, needs a high flow reliable manifold of suitable bore, and the mix of the parts to allow the turbo to achieve these levels include a 47mm true outlet collector, port matched turbo to suit, and 80mm TIP to go onto the turbos billet inlet. Its a package for folks who want the same spec as the lupo is running. the manifold is not available separately from me. Its too much of a ball ache to put it bluntly. The casting is from China yes, Its called the Chinafold after all. We have the manifold cnc machined locally and a lot of manual effort porting them to get them how I want them. Its labour intensive, as well as carbide cutter intensive which is costly, so qtys are limited. This is why I stopped selling them. Too much hassle and time we just don't have unfortunately. I wish we could get the foundry to cast them into the right shape, but this has not been possible, hence the post processing required. I wish it was'nt so, and customers did'nt have to use the v4... We know how thats working out.
     
    ProjecTTrack and Gops like this.
  25. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    I drove it on the road today.. ****** hell!
    Needs some tyres which grip.
    Spool is so much faster than before.. Very very responsive.

    I chickened out of full boost on the road... yea I chickened out! It was very lively just on actuator pressure 331bhp.
    Put some actual vpower in it to, turns out MrsB had last topped it up with 95UL... Explains the timing pull. haha.

    Onwards and upwards.

    We'll get you those prices sorted out asap.

    cheers
     
    Alex C and S3Alex like this.
  26. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    Seriously...I love the idea of a car which looks like it shouldn't ever do things like that.

    Makes me kinda want one....
     
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  27. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    the BMW M3 earlier on the M5 though wtf.. blasts past me, and glances in mirror and lupo instantly behind him.. lol
     
  28. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    That's it exactly....WTF is this little car doing.
    Hmmm.....a second car would be fun....
     
  29. JonnyDerv

    JonnyDerv Registered User

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    I can understand that, is a shame with ko4 manifold's these days, should make a good little package though
     
  30. Gops

    Gops Badger 5 Edition VCDS Map User

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    I love that lupo!
     
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  31. Alex C

    Alex C Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    might the lupo benefit from cams now that its running over 400bhp?
     
  32. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    I dont know. my guy feel is *maybe* now.. as previously the zero benefit I presumed was hotside choking up etc... But its still a k04 hotside but larger compressor wheel, so maybe it was just all out of puff on cold side after all. Not surprising as it was a K04-064 comp wheel which does do around 360-370bhp max on same levels of boost.. so ... maybe the cams might do something?

    If I ever get more "me" time to get it tested, it may be worth a giggle.. It would be funny as if the bar got raised even further... I can only imagine the haters comments - lmao
     
    S3 Hilife, Gops, Pedrosousa and 4 others like this.
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  34. TT Tom TT

    TT Tom TT Registered User

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    Thanks for letting me know Bill, excellent work on the results. I can't believe you have beaten 400HP with a K04 turbo and stock displacement valvetrain etc :)!
     
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  35. S3Alex

    S3Alex Rarely neutral Gold Supporter

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    Let them hate......they won't be the ones sitting in the loopy Lupo grinning every time they drive it.
     
  36. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    I feel sorry for Mrs B., Bill takes the car to "look" at it, she gets it back and on the way to the shops the world is suddenly disappearing behind her at high speed :help:lol
     
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  37. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    she has said previously I've ruined it.. haha
     
  38. george_seamons

    george_seamons I'm on the naughty step

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    Well? Out of the masses sold, a very very small percentage have failed.

    Can you not sub-contract the carbide work out to somebody else so it frees your time up? Seems a shame not to offer them based purely on lack of time.
     
    crispynz1 likes this.
  39. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    The v4 failures are happening more often... sadly.

    As for the porting/carbide work, I am looking at and for options currently. Internally its not something we have capacity for, and my efforts are to get the casting made to the correct spec, so no post processing is required at all... It could and should have been made correctly originally, but that opportunity is long since gone.. Access to the folks at the factory to get changes made has not been possible (yet) - Still working on it, not given up completely on that score.
     
    Alex C likes this.
  40. george_seamons

    george_seamons I'm on the naughty step

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    So glad I moved away from the 1.8t game...exhaust manifolds have always been an issue unless you go for a big turbo.

    Is it not feasble to get the "correct" casting done in the UK? Or is the cost to great vs. China?
     
  41. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    costs - tooling - etc but I would love for a UK company to be able to make these at a level they're affordable.
    I dont see anyone wanting or able to stump up the upfront costs.. Crowd funding perhaps..
    Who knows
     
  42. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    JBS...... oh, wait :haha:

    (Sorry, I couldn't resist)
     
  43. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    yea, as that worked out swimmingly :p
     

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