New A5 Regret / Advice?

[Benji315]

Had my A5 since 1st April now and 2000 miles into it's new life i'm really wishing i'd paid more and got the S5 instead.

Problem for me is that i took it out on a 4 year PCP deal through Audi finance so i think in theory i'm pretty much stuck with it for a long time now aren't i? Pricing up a S5 how i wanted it was only a difference of £9k which would have been affordable still. The only good thing currently is my mileage is very low with it being a 10k per year lease.

Are my hands really tied with it or what would you do? I can see me getting a black edition S5 as soon as i can trade this with no penalty but yeah kind of buyers regret currently big time! Almost feeling hesitant to get the work done i wanted to get done now.

 

[Joetidman]

I feel your pain mate. Sadly unless you're willing to take a big hit I think you're stuck with it until 3 years at least at which point you'll probably be evens if you put a decent deposit down. That's what I found with my S3


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[KBB]

Well I can only tell you my story, and its not bright.
Had an A3 on PCP and after a year and a half I wanted to trade it in to a another car.
Now what they do when you go in to take out a another car and trade in yours is to price up your old car, pay off your finance and use the rest of the remaining money towards a deposit on a new one. Sounds good, right? Well no, because the depreciation on new cars mine was barely worth just as much as I was still owed in finance, so I would have needed to still pay a deposit on top of trading in my "old" car. And I only had like 9000 miles in it too.

Anyway it wont hurt to ask, but I'm afraid at this point you are going to loose a lot by doing that.
You can also ask for a settlement figure from audifinance, they'll tell you how much would be to pay off the finance in one go. Once you know that figure and how much your car worth you can figure it out if you are in a good position of taking a new finance.

 

[Buck]

Never live your life with "what ifs" or regrets. You'll never be happy!

I know how you feel but you will probably get a call from your dealer at year 2 (or worst year 3) with an offer you can't refuse!!

A friend upgraded his 2014 A5 from the previous model to the B9 - far better spec for the same money per month.

My thinking is that if nothing better comes along in terms of models/choices then my next car may be an S5 sportback but for now I'm enjoying my current car and enjoying what it is !!!

 

[orcomma]

Bear in mind if you wait it out - in 4 years time, there will be a facelift S5!

 

[CraigI]

You'll be around £10k in the hole, unless you negotiated a spell binding discount.

 

[R.A.G]

Always worth getting a settlement figure and valuation.

I got out of a TTS after 18 months effectively Scott free, but I did negotiate a decent discount on it in the first place.

 

[S32B]

Had my A5 since 1st April now and 2000 miles into it's new life i'm really wishing i'd paid more and got the S5 instead.

Problem for me is that i took it out on a 4 year PCP deal through Audi finance so i think in theory i'm pretty much stuck with it for a long time now aren't i? Pricing up a S5 how i wanted it was only a difference of £9k which would have been affordable still. The only good thing currently is my mileage is very low with it being a 10k per year lease.

Are my hands really tied with it or what would you do? I can see me getting a black edition S5 as soon as i can trade this with no penalty but yeah kind of buyers regret currently big time! Almost feeling hesitant to get the work done i wanted to get done now.

I'm 2.5 years into a 4 year PCP with my S3, I'm going into Audi tomorrow to see about the A5 deal they have offered me. If I px my S3 with Audi I will be about £600 under what I owe on it! I could keep it and do the full 4 year pcp and maybe get some equity or just break even at the end. BUT!!! if I do that, come March I will need an MOT, Breakdown cover, the 3rd service and at some point 4 new tyres, so around £900, plus it would be out of warranty!!!...so man math says get rid now for £600 and start with a new car over 36 months.

Not to mention the deal on offer may not come my way again...21.4% of a coupe!

 

[rickparmar]

Once you've had a "S" you'll want another "S". Go for the S5

 

[Benji315]

I've been speaking to Audi again today about swapping - was quoted the following when i asked a few questions, what do you guys think?

Trade in
A5 TDI 17 plate (Extras = Flat bottom steering wheel, Privacy Glass, Carbon inlays - £405 per month) (currently pay £405 with £5k dealer and £1k from me)

For
Audi S5 - 67 plate brand new - no extras included!
They quoted me £577 per month and £1,000 down for the basic one, this was including £8k apparently from them.

I priced up the actual spec i want (Flat bottom, privacy, comfort & sound pack, tech pack) and it comes to £52k, then £2500 contribution from Audi so £49,500 OTR suggested cost on Audi's site.

Just wanted to know what you guys paid for your S5's / had much luck in flexing the price with extras. Worth noting too they have a used 67 plate one with 25 miles on the clock for £39k which has all the extras and a few more but they are saying the APR is making it £612 a month and i'd need to pay a whopping £5k down on it!

 

[Tonye60]

Try carwow, I used them and then it was undercut by a another dealer by £400.

 

[Flowrider99]

Well, i paid £22.5k cash for my 3 year old S5 so expect some serious depreciation if you buy new.

 

[Benji315]

It's always a PCP for me now, i'd never own a car outright ever again. The fact the specced up one is £14k cheaper than the suggested OTR figure despite doing 25 miles is a clear indication of the drop rates isn't it!

 

[DrEskimo]

I've been speaking to Audi again today about swapping - was quoted the following when i asked a few questions, what do you guys think?

Trade in
A5 TDI 17 plate (Extras = Flat bottom steering wheel, Privacy Glass, Carbon inlays - £405 per month) (currently pay £405 with £5k dealer and £1k from me)

For
Audi S5 - 67 plate brand new - no extras included!
They quoted me £577 per month and £1,000 down for the basic one, this was including £8k apparently from them.

I priced up the actual spec i want (Flat bottom, privacy, comfort & sound pack, tech pack) and it comes to £52k, then £2500 contribution from Audi so £49,500 OTR suggested cost on Audi's site.

Just wanted to know what you guys paid for your S5's / had much luck in flexing the price with extras. Worth noting too they have a used 67 plate one with 25 miles on the clock for £39k which has all the extras and a few more but they are saying the APR is making it £612 a month and i'd need to pay a whopping £5k down on it!

Whats the settlement on your A5 and whats the trade in value?

If you are getting £8k discount and it's 10k miles a year over 48months, it should be £538 with £1k deposit.
So that must mean he's valuing the A5 about £2k less than what is still owed on your finance (£2k negative equity). Bundling negative equity from one car deal into another is not a financially sensible decision. I would look to clear that in full first, then start the S5 fresh.

It's also advisable to put at least 20% down upfront so that you cover the massive depreciation in the first 12months. That way you if you find yourself in a situation where you need to get rid of the car mid way through the term, you are not having to cover a large amount of negative equity to get rid of it (hence why rolling negative equity from a previous deal is unwise, as you are just increasing this amount further).

Don't have any illusions about what a PCP is though. You are financing a £40k car and agreeing a sale price in 4yrs time with Audi in advance with a set mileage. If you wouldn't buy a £40k car and sell it £20k in 4yrs time, then don't do a PCP.

Oh...and and you are paying £6k of interest for the convenience of paying monthly rather than all in one go....so paying £40k in cash and selling for £20k 4years later would save you £6k.

Concentrate on the total cost. In the above, you are paying £26k to rent an S5 for 4yrs and drive it no more than 40k miles.

 

[Tonye60]

If a new car is about money and depreciation you would never go there, buy a 5 year old focus and you won’t loose much. If owning A S5 makes you happy and you can afford it go for it. Financial it makes no sense, but was does apart from property

 

[Benji315]

Thanks for replying in depth mate, appreciate it.

£33,692 is left on my current PCP but i've not actually got a settlement from them yet, they've told me they are valuing the car at £25,500 so basically though one trade in. How they've suggested the deal is structured today is saying the £8,000 they are taking off the OTR new one is what they are using as the deposit effectively.

I don't think 20% would ever be realistic from myself on the cost of a S5 without the dealer heavily chucking in towards that for me. With a PCP i'd always just chop it in for the next one on whichever deal they offered me, on my last A5 i kept it for 28 months before swapping (48 month deal). I don't think i'd exceed the 10,000 currently either, i got mine on first date of registration (31/03/2017) and i'm sat on 6300 miles so far.

 

[DrEskimo]

£33,692 is left on my current PCP but i've not actually got a settlement from them yet, they've told me they are valuing the car at £25,500 so basically though one trade in. How they've suggested the deal is structured today is saying the £8,000 they are taking off the OTR new one is what they are using as the deposit effectively.

Oh right...well I'm confused now...!

So they are saying you are £8k in negative equity, but are giving you £8k off the S5 to cover this. So in effect, you are paying full list price for the S5?
Is the £577 monthly figure based on you trading in the A5 with £8k negative equity, or is it just based on £8k discount without any P/X?

 

[DrEskimo]

If a new car is about money and depreciation you would never go there, buy a 5 year old focus and you won’t loose much. If owning A S5 makes you happy and you can afford it go for it. Financial it makes no sense, but was does apart from property

Sure, but you can get a 12m old S5 while financing 50% with a personal loan and it will be upwards of £8k cheaper than the same one brand new on a PCP over the same term (factoring in for an extra years extended warranty).

Don't know about you, but not sure I can tell the difference between a 12m old S5 and a brand new one at a dealer with the plates off...? Of course you need to save 50% of the cost, but as ever...good things come to those that wait

 

[Benji315]

Oh right...well I'm confused now...!

So they are saying you are £8k in negative equity, but are giving you £8k off the S5 to cover this. So in effect, you are paying full list price for the S5?
Is the £577 monthly figure based on you trading in the A5 with £8k negative equity, or is it just based on £8k discount without any P/X?

Yeah it's not making sense to me either, I'm paying full list price for the S5 that way, i said to them if they can barter a bit more and get it closer to £500 a month i'd do it.

What would be the best thing to do, keep the A5 for now do you reckon? I'm trying to do it where it doesn't hurt me massively to get it you see.

 

[Flowrider99]

Getting out of the A5 now is going to hurt unfortunately. If it was easy and painless everyone would get a 4 year deal and jump after a year into a new car.

 

[Buck]

My friend and neighbour has just replaced his RS5 with an RS6.

He never buys new. Always one year old The RS6 was over 30% cheaper than new and apart from the registration plate and the 5,000 miles on the clock you wouldn’t know.

Buying new always comes at a price. Chopping in a car less than one year into a PCP will never be good sense financially.

Benji, wait for your settlement figure from Audi for the A5 then work out how much you owe to just get rid of it so you are square one again then see what deal you can get on the S5.

The risk is the dealer is trying to juggle the figures so you can’t see the reality of each element and IMO you are best looking at them as two halves of the whole and not as one.

 

[Benji315]

Hmm defo food for thought! thanks guys

The other option is to remap mine and get it wrapped, then hand it back in 2 years time, that looks more appealing at the moment.

It's just the remap and warranty issue!

 

[DrEskimo]

Yeah it's not making sense to me either, I'm paying full list price for the S5 that way, i said to them if they can barter a bit more and get it closer to £500 a month i'd do it.

What would be the best thing to do, keep the A5 for now do you reckon? I'm trying to do it where it doesn't hurt me massively to get it you see.

Up to you buddy.

I just cant quite make sense of the £577 monthly figure? Based on a 48month term with 10k miles yea?

From what I've gathered is you have a P/X with £8k neg. equity and are wanting to get a standard S5 for £48,850. They are saying they can give you £8k discount on the S5 (good discount btw), which will effectively mean you are getting a S5 at RRP of £48,850, as you are getting £8k off, but then adding £8k back in with the debt on the A5.

The thing is a S5 with no discount is £725 per month with £1k deposit over 48months/40k miles...?

So what is the £577 figure...? That's about the price of the S5 with £8k discount! Did they assume you were going to pay the £8k negative equity yourself?

 

[Benji315]

Yep 48 month term, 10k annual mileage and i believe £8k off the car plus an additional £2500 from Audi and then a further £1k from me so more like £11500 off total. They said i can drive in with one and out with a brand new S5 if i pay that £1000 and hand them my one.

The stumbling block is the £577 for me, that's a little out of budget for me personally. Again if they were doing that price + my car not being involved, i think we'd be looking at a much lower cost for the car.

Would it be worth maybe clearing the negative myself and handing back to Audi and starting a fresh on that deal, or ultimately... just wait!

 

[DrEskimo]

Yep 48 month term, 10k annual mileage and i believe £8k off the car plus an additional £2500 from Audi and then a further £1k from me so more like £11500 off total. They said i can drive in with one and out with a brand new S5 if i pay that £1000 and hand them my one.

The stumbling block is the £577 for me, that's a little out of budget for me personally. Again if they were doing that price + my car not being involved, i think we'd be looking at a much lower cost for the car.

Would it be worth maybe clearing the negative myself and handing back to Audi and starting a fresh on that deal, or ultimately... just wait!

Blimey that's a hell of a discount...I got 18% off my B8.5 S5 back in November 2015 and that was because it was the outgoing model...! £10,500 is 21.6% discount! Usually the discount includes the £2,500 contribution, but not always. Worth double checking.

Still cant get the figures to add up to £577 so I must be missing something (not uncommon....)!
Hardly an expert, but happy to look over any final figures you get from the dealer if you want mate. I spent far too long researching this when I got mine, and I'm a bit of a numbers nerd...

In any case, it wont be cheap...probably advisable to pay off more of the finance until it has time to catch up with the rather heavy depreciation its suffered at the early stages.



http://www.pcpcal.co.uk/index.php

Enter details below:
1) Price: £48,850
2) Deposit: £1000
3) Dealer Contribution: £10,500
4) Part Exchange Value: -£8,000
5) Amount of the loan: £45,350
6) Final Payment/GMFV: £20,694
7) Annual percentage interest rate: 5.0845
8) Repayment period in months: 47
Monthly
667.35

Total Interest
6709.45

 

[Benji315]

They did say it was a mega deal tbh, but it's still £170 more than i pay now which i can't really justify despite the speed upgrade! I'm pretty sure when we spoke earlier, i was advised £8,000 + £2500 + £1000 to make it £11500 off and then as i said before, handing my car back. Almost seems too good to be true doesn't it?

It doesn't include even the basic things i have in my A5 though like privacy glass and flat bottom steering wheel and ultimately if i'm increasing price i'd like to at least get the cockpit and sound system this time, as i know the first two can be fitted easily enough (had the B&O in my old BE A5 and miss it massively!) Very kind of you to overlook the figures, appreciate that.

When would you say / advise is a more realistic time to look at swapping it? I've got an eye on a wrap on mine however won't bother if i'm not keeping the car long enough to warrant. The map's just me wanting more speed, it was a great idea swapping to a newer A5 but i should have opted for a faster engine.

 

[DrEskimo]

Well I can get much closer to the £577 if I assume you are paying the £8k negative equity upfront as the deposit, and they are giving you just £8k discount (which includes the £2,500 contribution). While that is far more likely, it doesn't fit with what he's told you, so I'm probably wrong!

1) Price: £48,850
2) Deposit: £8000
3) Dealer Contribution: £8000
4) Part Exchange Value: -£8,000
5) Amount of the loan: £45,350
6) Final Payment/GMFV: £20,694
7) Annual percentage interest rate: 5.0845
8) Repayment period in months: 47

Monthly
561.56

You will probably never be in positive equity (particularly a diesel....), but the difference between the trade in and settlement will be much closer towards the last year of the deal. Much smaller than £8k! The GFV is getting lower and lower every quarter as they re-calcualte the figures...

If it were me, I would not be getting it remapped....You probably would have no issues, but I'm risk adverse and the worst case scenario could get very messy...!

Sure wrapping would be fine though.

 

[Flowrider99]

I would be asking for settlement figures from about 3 years into the agreement. At some point the difference between trade in and settlement will become palatable.

 

[Benji315]

They have told me that i will have to pay just my £1000 and then the monthly price will go up, the rest they'll be taking care of, so as you said it doesn't make sense as it seems they are losing the negative equity somewhere.

My concern with waiting 3 years is i know by then my situation is going to be different and it won't be child friendly, so this is going to be my last coupe / toy. It'll probably be something in the Q Range next.

Will see what they say tomorrow, if they could get closer to my figure WITH the added extras i want then i think it might be worth my time. The wrap should be fine i reckon, but as you say the remap worries me!

 

[Simonb1975]

Personally i'd leave it be for now. Sounds like at thr end it will be a lower spec than what you have now.

For a large chunk of time you will be sitting in traffic or not using the extra power and therefore sitting in 'the same' car with less spec with a bigger financial hole around you.

 

[Benji315]

Right so some more figures.

Spoke to Audi finance and this was mine, £28,880 early settlement figure - Audi saying £25500 for mine. £3300 Negative then.

Been quoted £560 for another model which has all the extras except the flat bottom steering wheel and it's white (wanted Red or Black) - they think they may move closer to my ideal payment, going in on the weekend. £800 was what i was quoted from a local retrofitter to change the steering wheel, small things i know but i love the flat bottom wheel!

 

[Tonye60]

I wouldn’t even speak to a dealer until I had Carwow figures, bought my last 2 cars through them, saved thousands.

 

[DrEskimo]

Ah OK...£3k isn't as horrendous....but it still a fair whack of cash!

I would still advocate settling that debt before starting the S5 if you can afford it, despite your large discount. Paying that £3k upfront will reduce your payments by £80. Saving £80 over 48months will give you £3840.

The S5 will likely be in negative equity for the first couple of years, even without the P/X, given your 48month term and low deposit. You are just compounding this with an additional £3k debt from the A5, leaving you with a hefty bill should you need to get out the S5 deal early (for 101 reasons that can and does happen to all of us at time...!).

Incidentally these reasons are also why I think it’s sensible to increase your deposit as much as is feasible.....

 

[S32B]

If a new car is about money and depreciation you would never go there, buy a 5 year old focus and you won’t loose much. If owning A S5 makes you happy and you can afford it go for it. Financial it makes no sense, but was does apart from property

Bang on mate, decide on what you want to blow/what you're willing to lose each month on something that makes you happy and that you enjoy and just do it, if you don't spend it a relative will when you're 6ft under!

 

[S32B]

I wouldn’t even speak to a dealer until I had Carwow figures, bought my last 2 cars through them, saved thousands.

Same here, 21.4% off the current A5 coupe I was shocked when my local dealership replied and said they would match the deal £1k down and well under £400 per month over 36 months!!!

 

[Benji315]

New figure... £506pm - 4 year PCP, 0% finance from a local private dealer selling one, they are a client of mine so have made that deal possible for me, however unsure how i feel not buying from Audi direct in regards to issues and problems? They'd also take mine too into account etc so it's just a case of swapping cars and increasing my monthly cost.

Model supplied is a 2017 plate with 9,000 miles done, registered before 31st March so it's got the cheaper tax costings too. Flat bottom wheel, B&O, Comfort & Sound Pack, Folding Mirrors, Tech pack, Pano roof... £53k new.

New stumbling block is the insurance quote, it's increasing my annual payment by about £450 a year. I renewed in September and my current provider won't insure me on it either for some bizarre reason so they said they are happy to end it early for me and refund me some money.

I'm tempted to take it at that price really as it's £95 more a month!

 

[DrEskimo]

New figure... £506pm - 4 year PCP, 0% finance from a local private dealer selling one, they are a client of mine so have made that deal possible for me, however unsure how i feel not buying from Audi direct in regards to issues and problems? They'd also take mine too into account etc so it's just a case of swapping cars and increasing my monthly cost.

Model supplied is a 2017 plate with 9,000 miles done, registered before 31st March so it's got the cheaper tax costings too. Flat bottom wheel, B&O, Comfort & Sound Pack, Folding Mirrors, Tech pack, Pano roof... £53k new.

New stumbling block is the insurance quote, it's increasing my annual payment by about £450 a year. I renewed in September and my current provider won't insure me on it either for some bizarre reason so they said they are happy to end it early for me and refund me some money.

I'm tempted to take it at that price really as it's £95 more a month!

Hard to gauge on just the monthly amount. How much they selling it for and what would be the GFV after 4yrs? Take it is for 10k miles a year again too? Are they offering you the same P/X on the A5 (£25,500?).

The car will have 2yrs of the manufacturers warranty, so you can take it to any Audi dealer. Can also negotiate extending it when it runs out.

As for insurance...that’s a fair increase! I only paid £350 for my S5 insurance when I had it, so an increase of £450 would be massive to me! Of course you need to factor in the increase in all associates costs (insurance, fuel, servicing, etc.), not just the monthly payment amount.

 

[Flowrider99]

New figure... £506pm - 4 year PCP, 0% finance from a local private dealer selling one, they are a client of mine so have made that deal possible for me, however unsure how i feel not buying from Audi direct in regards to issues and problems? They'd also take mine too into account etc so it's just a case of swapping cars and increasing my monthly cost.

Model supplied is a 2017 plate with 9,000 miles done, registered before 31st March so it's got the cheaper tax costings too. Flat bottom wheel, B&O, Comfort & Sound Pack, Folding Mirrors, Tech pack, Pano roof... £53k new.

New stumbling block is the insurance quote, it's increasing my annual payment by about £450 a year. I renewed in September and my current provider won't insure me on it either for some bizarre reason so they said they are happy to end it early for me and refund me some money.

I'm tempted to take it at that price really as it's £95 more a month!

Sounds like a good deal but more info needed as i am suspicious why a dealer would give finance at 0% over 4 years, at that rate they are surely losing money unless the GFV is high.

 

[Benji315]

I can't remember off the top of my head now, i think it was £17k GFV but it was over the phone so i'd have to recheck with them.

Had a look at the car in person and it's a lovely motor, didn't realise though it was actually a 66 reg and not a 17 plate, again not a massive issue and the insurance actually went down when i actually did a proper check with the correct reg, coming up at £1200 for the year, currently paying £800 for the year on my A5 after i had a very frustrating scrape two years ago when somebody stalled midway in the road.

Decisions....

 

[DrEskimo]

I can't remember off the top of my head now, i think it was £17k GFV but it was over the phone so i'd have to recheck with them.

Had a look at the car in person and it's a lovely motor, didn't realise though it was actually a 66 reg and not a 17 plate, again not a massive issue and the insurance actually went down when i actually did a proper check with the correct reg, coming up at £1200 for the year, currently paying £800 for the year on my A5 after i had a very frustrating scrape two years ago when somebody stalled midway in the road.

Decisions....

And how much is the car...? lol

Looking at used approved Audi's, a 66plate with those options and mileage should be around £36/37k. From an indie garage I would expect closer to £35k.

If the GFV is £17k, then you are spending (507*47+17000) £40,800.....so they're basically offering you ~£6k less than settlement for the A5, but 0% interest....swings and roundabouts...

Having said that, if we assume the fair P/X is only £3k negative equity, then £3k interest on a 4yr PCP isn't bad really...works out at about 2.9%.

Are you happy with paying £507 per month for a car out of warranty though...? Settlement based on the numbers above would be about £28k at the 2yr mark, and you'll be lucky to get about £23k trade in on a 3yr/30k S5. That puts you in at least £5k negative equity if you wanted to change when the warranty expires....

I have no problem running cars 4/5/6 even 7yrs old out of warranty, but I would if I was paying £507 per month on a PCP for it!