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My Revo Stage 1+

Hellz May 25, 2018

  1. Hellz

    Hellz Geordie Racer Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Supercharged Audi S5 Black Edition quattro Sportback S tronic

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    Been getting some work done to the car recently and today had the Stage 1+ undertaken by BTG Performance North East. For those looking for a Performance tuner in the North East, based on my experience, I'd very much recommend. Jordan and his team were great, passionate, knowledgeable, welcoming, and good craic :)

    Last week I received the Forge Intake (thanks to mdmay again for very kindly giving me the part!) and the K&N Filter:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Stripped the OEM intake/filter out:

    [​IMG]

    Modded the airbox:

    [​IMG]

    Fit the filter and the intake:
    [​IMG]

    Had the before runs conducted this morning on the rolling road - the power of the car was lower than one would expect (317.8BHP / 441NM):

    [​IMG]

    BTG applied the pulley upgrade and stage 1+ revo map:

    [​IMG]

    Had after rolling road power runs conducted:



    And the result, which I'm happy with was 455.4BHP & 575.7NM:

    [​IMG]

    Overall, happy with the outcome so far (early days) - the guys at BTG said it was the most they'd seen an S5 pull in terms of HP at their place using the revo map and it had obtained the biggest gains (which is good to know!)... potentially due to the revo map really working well with the filter/intake in their view.

    Due to the weather being **** tonight in the North East and a car crash near the tyne tunnel which backed up traffic I haven't had a chance to give it a real go but first impressions are good - loads more torque, extremely responsive in terms of throttle response and pickup - the car feels fast now whereas before and compared to the S3 the difference didnt feel big. On the flip side - still really nice to drive when sat in traffic or cruising/taking it easy!

    Will play with it a bit more tomorrow and make a more informed judgement :)
     

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    Last edited: May 25, 2018
    JG51 AUD and andyay123 like this.
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  3. andyay123

    andyay123 Active Member

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    Gearbox map also?
     
  4. Hellz

    Hellz Geordie Racer Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Supercharged Audi S5 Black Edition quattro Sportback S tronic

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    Nah mate - I spoke to them (BTG) about it during the course of the day and they'd suggested that I go with Stage1+ alone first and if I found the gearbox felt lethargic/clunky and/or the feel of the car wasn't quite what I wanted it to be to consider the gearbox map on top later. So far though I think the car feels great, the power is something else compared to this morning - just took it out again tonight along the coast and it feels potent/muscly so as yet I personally can't see any justification in spending the best part of £300 on the gearbox map however, I haven't experienced the gearbox change so I cannot really make an informed decision - be great if they'd let you trial it for free for a week or so. As the car is at the moment - it's amazing - first night though :)

    Will likely get the gearbox done at some point though, once I get used to what I have and need a little more :)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
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  5. DaveTM

    DaveTM New Member

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    Hi
    How much does the stage 1 cost including everything please
    Does/will it use much more fuel or does it improve that too
    Thanks
     
  6. Hellz

    Hellz Geordie Racer Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Supercharged Audi S5 Black Edition quattro Sportback S tronic

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    Stage 1 revo is a straight 699 +vat at the moment - I went beyond that though and went for stage 1+ which requires pulley upgrade for the supercharger (+labour to fit), stage 1+ map (749+vat) and upgraded intake/filter (the latter of which I sourced and implemented myself). Costs can vary depending on which parts you go for and whether you fit them yourself or get a 3rd party to do it re: pully, filer/intake - I did the easier bits myself hence reduced the cost.
     
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  7. Dippy

    Dippy Well-Known Member Team Monsoon Audi S5 Black Edition

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    Great post @Hellz - to bad the weather was too bad to try it out straight away. I had a similar problem when I had mine done last year - although it was Feb, the weather wasn't too bad, it was the sheer volume of traffic on my way home that prevented my fun!

    Re the gearbox map. Remember that its not just about lifting the redline - there is a SW torque limit and it is typical for a gearbox remap to lift this and also increase pressure on the clutch plates to avoid slip.
     
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  8. Booboo

    Booboo Active Member Team Daytona TFSI Owners Group Audi A4 Black Edition quattro S-line owners group S tronic

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    Some good gains there!
     
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  9. Hellz

    Hellz Geordie Racer Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Supercharged Audi S5 Black Edition quattro Sportback S tronic

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    Cheers @Dippy - since your post I've done a little more reading, I hadn't appreciated the remap removed software limits on the gbox allowing it to apply extra clamping power - thanks for the pointer.

    Are there any known issues as a result of having the gearbox remap i.e. on the engine/box itself? I appreciate now with software limit being removed my torque level would still remain within hardware limits albeit closer to the hardware limit - this must result in greater stress on the box? And what about the engine revving higher - any known issues? Will do some more reading today but I know you're very knowledgeable so worth a punt :)
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2018
  10. Dippy

    Dippy Well-Known Member Team Monsoon Audi S5 Black Edition

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    I wish I could tell you more. I had a brief chat with Doug @ MRC when mine was done. He explained about the torque limit and clamping pressure and mentioned that they see a lot of problems when tuning cars with the A3/golf platform because once the engines are tuned if the gearboxes are not tuned to increase the clamping pressure, the clutches can slip. By inference that suggests that our platform is less of a problem, and I didn't ask him specifically, since of course mine had already been done. So that's why I won't state on a forum that a gearbox remap is necessary on a tuned B8 S4/5, just that not having one ought to be considered a risk. After all if you don't notice any clutch slip initially, but you do after say 20k, you might wish you'd got the gearbox remap.

    It's exactly the same argument as the crank pulley. We know the OE one will likely fail at some point. MRC have been fitting single piece lightweight ones for years with no reported problems. But the damping is there for a reason. I paid quite a bit extra for my vdamper. If several years from now those MRC pulley cars have no problems then it will seem that I wasted my money. But alternatively if we start seeing reports that those cars are needing engine repairs then it will have been a good decision.

    Back to your question - have no doubt that your tune will place the engine and whole transmission under greater stress than a stock car. I would not say that there are "known" issues from the tune, but this is because there is not enough failure data, and not enough tuned cars to correlate any conclusion. The best you can do is monitor forums like this and create an opinion. There are "known" weak points on this car - the OE crank pulley, the early gearboxes and the cats come to mind. I would suggest that it is likely that a tuned car will put additional stress on these weak points and increase the risk of failure. Don't forget that wonderful phrase that is commonly used across the pond: "You gotta pay to play".

    BTW the 0B5 DL501 gearbox was originally specified for 550Nm at 9000rpm. I believe it was since improved but I cannot find any data on that. However we can infer that (a) it can easily handle the 7200 or so rpm that you get with a remap, and (b) if it can handle 550Nm at 9000rpm then it should handle more at lower rpm.

    I couldn't find a spec sheet for the engine, however the self-study guide has some data. The 3.0 TFSI engine is a development from the 3.2 FSI engine, which means that it is more than a well established design. The power band was specified to 7000rpm but the graphs in the SSG clearly show above 7000rpm. So for me it is clear that a gearbox remap to allow the engine to rev to around 7000rpm is not taking it to or beyond its limit.
     
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  11. Hellz

    Hellz Geordie Racer Team Glacier TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Supercharged Audi S5 Black Edition quattro Sportback S tronic

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    Cheers @Dippy - where you refer to earlier cars is that <= 2012 ? I've seen a few comments around the block referring to earlier revisions of the Gbox. I've been unable to discern what changed though around the 2012 mark (2012 seems to pop up regularly - I guess with the onset of the b8.5) - mines an 8.5 (2013).

    I'd read that mine therefore I assume yours (as yours is the newer CREC model) has a torque limit of 600NM but I'm assuming based on what you're saying that's based upon original spec of bhp/rev limit - I'm currently pulling 575NM so in theory still 'safe' albeit close to the wire. I take the inference though, I need to really consider the gearbox map (which by virtue of these conversations I'm already doing!)... My concern is placing even more stress/strain on components through increased engine revs and I can't quite figure yet whether extra clamping power is a good thing for longevity. You're spot on, as yet, I'm not experiencing any slippage at all but appreciate this may be a slow burn - rhetorically, if this slippage begins to occur is that the back stop time to map or has the horse bolted - It may be worth a chat direct with revo on my part...

    Thanks again for the considered post.
     
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  13. Dippy

    Dippy Well-Known Member Team Monsoon Audi S5 Black Edition

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    According to the info in Audi's "new tech" guide which included the 0B5 'box, even when it was introduced in 2008/9 they planned to update it - to delete one of the oil filters. I believe this was done sometime during 2010. The Audi parts database shows different part numbers for some oil components for 2010 and 2011. So it is the 2009/10 B8s that had the original version of the 'box and which seems to have the most reported problems. It seems to be 'common knowledge' that the 'box was revised again, but it is not clear when. However if you look at the reports of 'box problems (mostly available on US sites such as Audizine, noting that they tend to use the model year which is 1 year after manufacture) whilst most are from 2009/10 cars, there are also some from 2011 to 2013 cars (I believe that I have seen a report on Audizine for a 'box problem on a MY2014 car which would have been made in 2013). That's why in the past I have refrained from advising that 2012 post facelift cars are free from the risk of 'box problems. However I have just checked the parts database again and I noticed (for the first time) that the mechatronics PCB repair kit has two versions - for 'boxes built before and after May 2013. That correlates (at least on the limited information I have) with problem reports and suggests that the third and final version of the 'box went into manufacture during May 2013. Of course that doesn't mean that B8s built in May 2013 would have got the latest 'box, but it certainly implies that 2014 and later cars did.

    I don't know how to prove which version 'box you have, however I have noticed from the parts database that post May 2013 'boxes came with SW 8K0 927 166 (S5 version). This is what a VCDS scan of my S5, built early 2015, shows. My scan also shows "Component: 0B5 30TFSIRdW H03 0004" and that could correspond to the part number 0B5300060R 004 which has the same SW part number.

    Regarding the torque limit, yes you have reminded me that I believe it was revised to 600Nm, but which version that change corresponds to I don't know. But remember that the limit is what was tested at 9000rpm, and ours never get driven than high.

    I agree that a discussion with REVO directly (rather than their distributor) would be helpful.
     
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