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My not so daily 4.2 Quattro thread

Rich81 Jun 26, 2017

  1. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    After one month of ownership, a fair bit of cash on parts and lots of my time, finally got my 4.2 Quattro in good working order. I've had two B5 passats and currently also own a C5 1.9TDi which I've had 2.5 years (bought for £200) and always wanted a proper Audi with a V8. Couldn't find a decent S6 for sensible money and this 4.2 Quattro came upso I sold my MK4 Golf GTi (long time VW fan recently converted to Audi) to buy it. The outgoing MK4 was mint condition and the new 4.2, well, wasn't. Bought as spares or repairs but importantly with what as far as I could tell was a good engine and box. Known faults when bought the car were: Hard starting difficult to start from hot and various front end clunks, small rust patch on roof (where they all go), air-con not working.

    40 mile drive home was without issue but then as expected car didn't start when hot. First job to tackle was the hard starting. Did plenty of research and feared possibly fuel pump or leaky injectors but after getting under the bonnet found the root cause was vac leaks; one of the variable inlet manifold actuators had broken leaving a gaping hole:

    vac leak.JPG

    Quite shocked after researching the replacement part and finding these actuators are £250 each from Audi! Just for a diaphragm actuator! That got my brain in gear and decided a repair was possible. Because the plastic part that originally held the arm was still inside the diaphragm, I was able to manipulate it and work with it. I was able to drill a hole through the centre of the plastic bit, countersink it, insert a countersunk screw and get it through the whole, turn it all around so the thread was sticking out, get a nut and suitable washers on it and tighten it all up. Once I was happy it would hold I assembled it again with sealant under the washer to ensure no vac leaks:

    fixed vac actuator.JPG

    Next job was to treat the root cause of the actuator failure which was a seized manifold flap. After finding a great write-up online about how to repair these here I was confident it could be fixed:

    puller.JPG

    Didn't take long at all to get the offending parts off, cleaned up and back together. Thankfully only one flap was seized.

    There were quite a few perished vac hoses on the system so all vac lines were replaced with silicon. Success - now starts perfectly :)
     
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  3. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Next up was the front end clunks. On inspection the obvious fault was a snapped front coil spring. The car was on factory sports suspension and after a bit of thought decided to keep it standard. Considered lowering springs but the plan with this car was to restore/maintain so despite the fact that a pair of front springs cost me £105.49 each, decided to stick with standard.

    Now I have done front suspension many times on B5 passats and my own A6 tdi but this one was different as it has the alloy hub carriers. This means pinch bolt seizure was next level! I had never failed to get a pinch bolt out before but unfortunately this time it had to be drilled out. So what was supposed to be a couple of hours job took WAY longer than I hoped. After much swearing and blunt drill bits later, she was out:

    pinch.JPG


    Whilst I was in there the bottom ball joint was fubar so ordered up a replacement for that as well.

    Also noticed the auto-leveling headlight sender for the Xenon's was knackered. Felt this could be repaired so set to it and manufactured a 'bearing' out of some nuts bolts and silicon tube:
    light sender.JPG

    This involved drilling out and countersinking the edges of an M8 hex nut, which was than pressed into the plastic arm housing. Then fitting a bolt to the bracket part which had some silicon tube pressed over it, grease applied and wsher to hold in in place but also allow some flexibility. I reckon it will last a fairly long time but we'll see :)

    With the two major known jobs complete it was time to start driving the car. Joy to drive but impressively thirsty! One of the reasons I went for the V8 is because I recently moved close to work and cycle most days, and have the tdi for the family car which the wife drives daily to work as well. Which is just as well, because the V8 only returns around 16mpg around town! At best, conservative 50-60mph cruising I have seen 30mpg. Average is about 18-20mpg.
     
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  4. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Next job tackled was diagnosing the air-con. After much researching of how the system should work I found the aux fan was dead. Best thing about the V8 is the aux fan comes off easily, easier than the tdi in fact as there's plenty of space in front of it. There was voltage to the fan so clearly the motor was dead. Pulled the motor off the fan and gave it a good clean with contact cleaner. Powered it uo and got it to rotate a few times but no good, I would need a new one. Quick check online and the correct part with the 'round plug was around £60 and not in stock, but the later type with 'D' shape plug was only £36 so went with this and spliced in the old plug. Now had a working aux fan. Checked voltage going to the compressor clutch and there was so next step, off to get the air-con regassed.

    My hopes were high that it would work but alas, compressor appeared faulty also. There would be a job for another time and is on the list. Been quoted £650 from my preffered garage but I am on a tight budget with this car so will be tackling it myself. Have become quite a regular at ATS next to my work so plan is to get them to evacuate the system and fit a new compressor myself. Best price for a Hella one I've found is £180 so far.
     
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  5. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Other jobs done so far:

    Programmed a spare key as only came with one. Had an old VW key lying around, got a blank cut and coded it to the car using VagTacho to read the SKU.


    Adjusted drivers door release mech2as on a hot day door wouldn't open! Another great guide found from searching online.

    Tries to fix the RNS-D sat nav which wouldn't read the CD. Tried a lens cleaner CD it no good. Tempted to out new laser in as only £25 off ebay...

    Removed the TV aerial - no use to me as they don't transmit non-digital anymore.

    Whilst in there had a look at the TV tuner box as heard some models had RCA inputs- it did, bonus.

    However when I rigged up an RCA cable to my phone the sound quality was appalling... Not going to be an option.

    However does have a composite video I out for Aux in which I plan to connect a reversing camera to....

    Don't know why I want to keep the RNS-D I just do. Always liked to keep period stuff in the car and the Bose system sounds great. Might order the laser. Have a 2007 sat nav CD which is the latest probably available but I always use my phone for Waze anyway (speed cameras!)
     
  6. Bratcop

    Bratcop New Member

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    Very impressive indeed. I love how you find ways to avoid paying audi $ to get it running again. Good work.

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  7. Hairless wonder

    Hairless wonder New Member

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    As above, like your way of thinking
     
  8. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Couple of weeks ago another job came up - Transmission final drive output seal. Noticed the distinct smell of burning transmission fluid and checked under the car to find plenty of oil thrown about and leaking onto the cats.

    oil leak trans.JPG

    after a bit of research found out this is incredibly common and Audi actually developed a new flange and seal, however those parts come in at around £400, where the replacement seal is £14... Looking through the service history I could see this had already been done once in 2007 around 65K miles ago, i figured the £14 seal would do.

    Whilst the job isn't a particularly big one, it does require the exhaust to be removed from cats back to give access to move the prop shaft out the way. Having spent quite a few nights and weekends fixing other stuff I REALLY didn't feel like doing this on my drive on another sunny weekend. I Hate anything to do with exhausts as they always need new clamps etc when refitting and it's really a job that should be done on a lift... So booked this one into local VAG specialist SJB Autotech. First time I've had a car in a garage for anything other than an MOT for a few years and first time to use SJB. Seeing as it's only 3 hours labour and a £14 seal and some oil, wasn't too expensive. Good experience and would use again if needed. Spent the weekend at the beach with my daughter which was far more enjoyable than lying under the car.


    Next, needed some new tyres and since I'm planning to get the standard wheels refurb picked up a spare set of alloys from ebay for £280 with tyres. These were exactly same size and offset as the standard wheels and had come of an S6 and would do for a set to roll around on for a while, even if they do look a bit lost in the arches:

    4.2 side new alloys.JPG

    Unfortunately one of the spigot rings was missing, and I didn't have the correct 60 degree taper bolts, so the car had to sit again until I got a set delivered from ebay...
     
  9. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    So just after a couple hundred miles in the car, the next job comes up... front suspension arm bushes. Having had 2 passats and owning another A6 I should have known it wouldn't be long. I had just recently replace one lower arm with a shot ball join and kind of hoped the other would last a while but no, as usual on these cars fit one new arm and all the others fail soon after around it. Always fit a full set!

    So, car will be off the road again for a few days while I do this. Unfortunately I am short on time at the moment and only have literally an hourr per night to work on the car, so it's gonna be cycling to work for a few days next week while this gets done. Because I already know the offside pinch bolts is seized, it's likely to be a drill-out job, again... Febi-Bilstein lower front arms ordered from ww.vwspares.co.uk, ebay set of upper arms, and a RH lower rear arm from GSF today with a 50% off code, roll bar links look good for a while yet... Also got a new offside front spring to fit (heavily corroded, nearside had snapped when bought the car, bought a pair of springs from Audi -$$$)

    Cost on parts is mounting a little now. Hard to get cheap parts for the 4.2. This is nowhere near as cheap to run as my A6 tdi however it is much much more fun.

    Will tackle this next week and post pics.
     
  10. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Little job on the tdi the other day. After a long drive with the air-con on, passenger foot-well soaked with a ton of water... Noticed this once last summer and realised it must be something with the air-con. Sure enough, quick google and found blocked AC drain a likely cause.

    Fairly easy fix, just a bitch to unbolt the drain funnel.

    First you have to get the carpet back far enough to expose this:
    drain funnel.JPG

    Which requires glove box out and trim section removing at door.

    Next unbolt the thing - you'll need a set of wobble extensions, preferably small 1/4" ones, to get access to the screws, of which there are 3:

    wobble exts.JPG
    wobble.JPG

    It's tricky to get to but once off, a blast of compressed air to clear out whatever's blocking it under the car, and clean out the funnel for good measure, put it all back and you're good to go. I left this with just two screws when re-fitted as just couldn't get my fingers round the back to re-fit one and it wasn't going anywhere with 2.

    Since this is the wife's car, she's now happy her handbag doesn't get soaked in the footwell - apparently it's been happening for ages but she failed to mention it!
     
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  11. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Despite not having much free time and working saturday this week I decided to get started on the front suspension arms after work today.

    Only got a couple hours max per day to progress this but work is cycling distance and have our tdi when needed so it can take it's time.

    Always like to write down the plan of attack before starting a job, makes it easier and saves missing things, worth 5 min prep and good to tick off as you go. came up with:

    Crack offside hub nut (just in case hub need to come off)

    Loosen wheel nuts

    Jack up and axle stand

    Chock rear wheels

    Check garage door closure

    offside wheel off and store

    check track rod end for seizure

    offside pinch bolt out air/drill

    remove roll bar link

    remove suspension guide arm nut

    remove suspension mount nut at arm

    pop sus guide arm ball joint

    pop lower rear ball joint

    pop out upper arms

    undo shock top bolts in engine bay

    remove shock assembly and mark up position of arms and top mount angle

    fit spring comps and compress

    air gun top nut off

    refit spring and top mount

    refit top nut

    remove spring clamps

    fit new upper arms

    loosen subframe bolt

    remove lower rear arm bolt and replace arm

    fit new suspension guide arm at bush mount

    refit shock top bolts in engine bay

    refit shock to arm at mount

    refit suspension guide ball joint

    pop track rod end from hub

    remove inner steering arm (cut if needed)

    set length to old and fit new.

    once back together check, drop nearside to wheel and use Jack to apply compression then tighten bushes

    put back on two stands

    refit offside wheel

    nearside wheel off

    remove shock mount nut at arm

    pop suspension guide ball joint

    pinch bolt out, pop ball joints

    remove shock top bolts in engine bay

    remove shock and replace upper arms

    remove suspension guide bush bolt

    refit shock and new suspension guide

    pop track rod end

    remove inner track rod end (cut if needed)

    fit new arm

    remove offside axle stand and use Jack to compress nearside

    tighten all bushes

    check everything again

    refit wheel

    drop car

    torque wheel bolts

    torque offside hub nut

    clean up

    have a cup of tea

    test drive




    Don't have much space in my garage but it's enough and can work on both sides, just.

    First job was pinch bolt. Those damned alloy hubs... No luck even with air hammer. Got it moving but inevitably sheared off and had to be drilled. Didn't get the drill very straight on this one but felt it break through then used the nut to pull it out the other way.

    1.5 hours as so far, just for the first bolt! May get another hour on it later tonight if not will be tomorrow afternoon as finish work early.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

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  13. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Bit more progress today.

    Tip for popping out upper ball joints, use a ball joint splitter and a piece of cut off bolt to push them out. Still hubs normally come out with a hammer by these alloy hubs seize them in real tight. This way is easy and saves swinging a hammer under the wheel arch.

    Also if dismantling a shock always mark up the direction the arms are facing relative to the shock, makes it much easier when putting it back together.

    Oh and I know I need some new spring Clamps... these are starting to bend, not good.

    Unfortunately track rod end bolt seized as well so in process of drilling that out now... why couldn't the last guy in there put some anti seize on...




    [​IMG][​IMG]

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  14. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Got all the suspension work finished at the weekend. More cutting required. Both track rods had to be cut - definitely investing in a dremel with cutting discs for next time.
    Easy enough job though as long as you have a knuckle removal tool for the inner joint.
    On the driver side there is a plastic guard that needs to be removed so that you can get your hands in to remove the steering rack gator.

    Good thing about running standard height suspension is you can get at all the bush bolts to tighten them with the car on the floor.

    Next stop was ATS yesterday to get the front wheels aligned. No more front end clunk, handles properly.

    Still a very light knocking sound from the rear nearside though. Cannot locate and play but feels like it may be a shock or top mount. I cam live with it for a while. So far I have spent more time working on this car than actually driving it.
    [​IMG]

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  15. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Good wee read. You sound like me, an hour here and there but I don't have a garage or air tools. My mums let me have her garage for a job on the Quattro but I might not get back in again as there has been complications and it's been there since Friday evening. Opps.
     
  16. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member Team Avus Silver saloon Audi A4 quattro Manual

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    Enjoyed reading that, keep up the good work


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  17. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Samuel, been there, not had a garage for the last 13 years since moved out from the parents place. Having just bought our first house it is a joy to have my own garage. Difficult jobs are just become enjoyable in the warmth/shelter of the garage with the tunes going on the bluetooth speaker :rock:

    Get very little free time as my wife works nights, we basically hand over when I get home and can only get in the garage once my daughter's in bed. Thankfully we've got two cars though.

    There's certain conditions required to 'enjoy' working on cars:
    • Time
    • The right tools
    • Space
    • A second form of transport
    • Money
    With any one of those missing it can be difficult to enjoy car maintenance.
     
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  18. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Next issue - didn't take long...

    The set of alloys I bought had bad vibration so got them balanced a couple of weeks ago, after fitting new spigot rings and correct taper bolts. Didn't really drive the car much since been doing the suspension work but now that's done it's clear there's still some vibration from the front. It's better, but enough to be annoying. Just above 65mph so very much seems like a balance issue. I really want there to be zero detectable vibration at any speed otherwise it's just annoying.

    So alloys were off last night to clean up the hub faces and try again. Drove to work this morning and vibration was still there so decided to swap the rears to the front. Have checked these alloys out before and they all look perfect, no visible buckles or dings. However I have noticed that the two I had on the front have a lot of weights on there. The chap that balanced them did say they were well out on balance. Whilst the rear two have what I consider to be a 'normal' amount of weights.

    The tyres are standard size 255/40/17s. The front tow and Nexen with 6mm tread and the rears Falken with 7mm. Since the wheels all look good, I am thinking that the cheaper Nexen tyres may be the reason for the difficulty balancing. I know that without pulling the tyres off and spinning them on a balancer, or waiting for the next set of tyres to go on, I'll never know but the hope is they will be ok on the back for now.

    My plan is to get the standard 'fat five' wheels refurbed at some point but didn't really want to do it just yet. Since I can't live with vibration though, if these still vibrate on the way to work tomorrow I may need to work some overtime to get them done!

    front 1.JPG front 2.JPG
    lots of weights!.JPG
    rear 1.JPG rear 2.JPG
     
  19. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    I love fat fives. Absolutely dirty looking. If I could sell my 16" and 17" set of alloys I might be able to get a set of 18" fat fives.

    Sorry, got a bit excited there. Can't wait to see yours on.
     
  20. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member Team Avus Silver saloon Audi A4 quattro Manual

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    I have Nexen N8000 on mine, no problems with balancing, it does need lowered and wheels refurbed, on SE springs just now, are these fat fives, I know them as S Line wheels?[​IMG]

    Oh and the wings of course.


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  21. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    They look like RS6 wheels.

    In the UK I know fat fives as these in the pic. Often a favourite to fit to golfs especially the polished versions.
    I have 5 that came with the car. The spare is still in polish as seen fitted there to right rear. The other have been refurbed in the past bit bubbling underneath now.

    Still had the vibration after moving the wheels around, now from the back so I know it's the pair with the Nexens on, either the wheel or tyre. When I spun them they looked a little out of round on the tyres so might be a case of being stood a long time before I bought them as came off a car that was a breaker.
    Generally I've heard good reviews of Nexen as a budget tyre, Korean brand so quality is there unlike some Chinese ditchfinders although certainy no Michelin.

    Now I need to decide either

    - swap these tyres over onto the standard fat fives now and hope they balance up ok on them, think about refurb later. Hope that it was the wheels and then these tyres would be ok on other rims.

    Or

    - get the standards refurbed now and have the tyres swapped to them. Again hope the tyres aren't the cause of the balance issue. Means money outlay now but hopefully left with nice new wheels and no vibration.

    Or

    - get a pair of tyres to replace the suspect Nexens... which may not actually be at fault.

    I guess swapping them to the other rims proves the tyres or rims before spending too much on either refurb or new tyres so probably the best bet...



    [​IMG]

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  22. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member Team Avus Silver saloon Audi A4 quattro Manual

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    I'd buy Nexen again, wearing well and good grip level, Michelin are the best but so are their prices, out of my price range that's for sure, yeah that's the fat fives I was thinking of. Do you have any other wheels kicking about that you could swap one of the wheels at a time then you can find the culprit?
     
  23. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Yeah, I still have tyres on the standard 'fat five' wheels. They were 10 years old and perished, but I could use them to swap one at a time to diagnose the offending wheel. For every 20 minutes I drive this car I'm spending an hour messing around with it at the moment!
     
  24. couchie

    couchie New Member

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    Fat Fives are off an A8 , 8 x 18 et48 with no dish in the centre !
     
  25. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member Team Avus Silver saloon Audi A4 quattro Manual

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  26. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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  27. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    That makes three different types of fat fives I've seen now. There are two sets on ebay at the minute. One of the a8 and I'm not sure about the other set but the spoke definitely looks broader and as if it angles out more than the a8. The a8 looks as though it would angle back slightly into the wheel arch.

    Rich are those 18" rims in the pics above with the polished rim? They look the same as the tt comps. They look the ticket or the other broader one which I don't know which car it came off ir part number. I was wandering was it the angle if the photo but I don't think so.
     
  28. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    They are 17s and essentially the same as TT comps although in 5x112 rather than the TT 5x100. Here's some pics from press brochures. I am contemplating polishing them myself I know it is a lot of work (although the 5th spare wheel is already there) but it's something I can take time to do whereas if I get them refurbed it will definitely be powdercoat.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

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  29. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Definitely very nice with the comps on. I think the c5 suits them polished. Be a lot easier than a set of sierra cosworth alloys off a whale tail that I tried to polish one time. Gave up half way through.
     
  30. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Have been driving around for a while now on the Toora alloys I bought as a stop-gap, quite like the look of them but the vibration is borderline acceptable. It's only between 65 - 85, actually goes away at 90 odd so definitely feels like a balance issue.

    I don't really have the cash to refurb the standard alloys right now, but they arent hideous so I am thinking the most sensible option is to have these tyres swapped onto the standard alloys for now and see how they balance up. This way I will prove the tyres and alloys - I know the standards alloys didn't have vibration, so I believe them to be good.

    Otherwise car seems great and had a fantastic drive into London at the weekend. The Miltek exhaust on this sounds awesome and going full throttle through second on the slip roads onto the motorway I just couldn't get enough off.

    I really do like this car and I'm wondering what to do with it longer term. I know the gearbox will not last forever before needing a costly rebuild so i'm reluctant to invest too much in the car for now and just want to enjoy it for a while. Longer term I would love to manual swap it but the current plan is to try to run it for a year or two before making any mods.


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  31. Hairless wonder

    Hairless wonder New Member

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    I'm envious...... mine sits on the driveway waiting for a replacement box...feeling very sorry for itself
     
  32. Samuel c5 Q

    Samuel c5 Q Active Member Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Rs6 with a manual box would be the way to go or as you say a manual box in yours if you could do it cheap enough. Fella in the states I think it was swapped a manual tdi box into an auto bi turbo a6.
     
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  34. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    The more I research about these cars the more nervous I get about the gearbox reliability...

    Are you going to be doing a gearbox swap yourself? If mine went I would love to fix it myself as do have the time although would struggle to handle it on my drive on axle stands. I heard the box weighs 160kg! Yet the cost of labour in a garage is a lot. It's one of those jobs where it's worth going for a re built box rather than 2nd hand donor I reckon as you don't want to be putting it in twice.

    I have done some research on manual swaps with the 01E 6 speed box which would make an awesome car. I actually like the auto but if it went I would look into this just for the reliability aspect and to make something different. Again doesn't look cheap to do and most of these cars are getting written off for such things. Although that's making them rarer which if you can fix it is a good thing!

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  35. Hairless wonder

    Hairless wonder New Member

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    I am contemplating buying a manual a 2.5 tdi Quattro, one on eBay for 400, then swapping what's needed to the s6. Will need to research a bit more to see if it's as simple as that(going on experience in life....it never is).

    Last week I spoke with Paul from a company called The Firm here in Camberley, who was a good help. The manual swap route he reckons will be way over 2.5k I was quoted for a auto Rebuild.

    I haven't seen any manual s6's recently on any of the car selling websites and now I know why.
     
  36. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Have used the Phirm before they definitely know their stuff and are well respected in the vag scene.

    Unfortunately with these V8s there's no cheap way to run them. Parts and labour are both expensive. Might be worth enquiring with ZF directly on an exchange gearbox cost. I did see one auto box place offering them for £1k. Labour to fit is going to be another 1k I guess.. was the 2.5k you were quoted a fitted price or just the box rebuild?



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  37. Bratcop

    Bratcop New Member

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    Transmission remove, rebuild and replace can be done with a floor jack and sturdy jack stands, but it is a little sketchy at times. It is quite heavy and awkward to get in and out but can be done. I rigged up a strap between firewall and block to lift it back into place. It worked almost flawlessly. My concerns on a manual retrofit were parts cost and then making the electronics talk. [​IMG][​IMG]

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    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  38. QuattroCalum

    QuattroCalum Well-Known Member Team Avus Silver saloon Audi A4 quattro Manual

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    What a great idea with the strap top marks. I fitted a single mass flywheel conversion and it was **** so I had to do it all again, by myself on both occasions! The hardest part was getting the gearbox back up and realigned with the clutch. Guess I wasn't smart enough to think of the strap, that would've been a godsend.
     
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  39. Bratcop

    Bratcop New Member

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    Here is the cherry picker and strap in action. Thanks for the props. Strap at front, jack at rear.. And it went smooth. I also did it all alone... Fun fun. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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  40. Rich81

    Rich81 Member

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    Bratcop that is really impressive and gives hope to us guys wondering how long our gearboxes will last or have already gone!

    Looks like you have a nice workshop there I wouldn't like to tackle that outdoors...



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  41. Bratcop

    Bratcop New Member

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    Never outdoors, could use a lift obviously, but I make due

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  42. Hairless wonder

    Hairless wonder New Member

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    My gravel driveway will do just nicely then
     
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  43. Bratcop

    Bratcop New Member

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    Best of luck, hairless. I'm sure it can be done, but no creeper will suck lol

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