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My minor modding thread

<tuffty/> Jul 29, 2009

  1. IPG

    IPG Registered User

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    so it's just a bevel box replacement then?

    easy enough
     
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  3. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    potentially... not looked to see what other carnage there is yet... will gather parts and get recovered to the workshop when ready... I might get her up on ramps just to have a quick look underneath later in the week...

    <tuffty/>
     
  4. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    On an unrelated note, the ignitron website says it does traction control.

    The stop loom send wheel speeds from the 4 sensors for the ABS to the ecu so does the ignitron do fancy 4 wheel speed traction control or basic slew rate.

    The transfer box put up a good fight considering you put out 2.5x the factory torque....
     
    IPG likes this.
  5. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Not looked into it yet... I disabled ESP years ago and have never really needed any form of traction control personally...

    Will have to ask about the specifics but here are the screen shots from the software...
    Screen Shot 2018-03-25 at 19.19.03.png
    Screen Shot 2018-03-25 at 19.19.17.png

    There is also the possibility to use the 'Race' mode on the HPA controller that allows you to configure haldex engagement based on speed...

    <tuffty/>
     
    antwan64og likes this.
  6. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Jesus Tuffy, at least you have most of the bits. #CrashBangWallop
     
  7. IPG

    IPG Registered User

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    bahahaha

    oh what a picture ;)
     
  8. sparrow

    sparrow Registered User

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    I have a gearbox and transfer box from my 02M/02Q saga, if you haven't sorted one yet.
     
    <tuffty/> likes this.
  9. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    You don’t have front and rear LSD’s do you Paul?
    There’s probably better things (non car related) to splurge 2.5k on
     
  10. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Cheers Alex... I think I have some thing sorted now but will let you know if that falls through...

    No... never interested me tbh... not really struggled for grip in either wet or dry and its primarily a road car so never driven hard enough to warrant the small percentage of gain to be had from them...

    2.5k would be half way to a 300mm f2.8 prime lens :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  11. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    do you actually think you broke this testing your car, or age related fatigue? otherwise a replacement will just break the new one wont it? was it perhaps weakened from when the CV joint broke from the extra vibrations?
     
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  13. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    The gearbox is rated to 260ftlb according to VAG... all things considered its copes very well with the power level I am at...

    I am putting 430ftlb through the drivetrain and this will increase wear and tear over time... as with anything tuned at this level the reliability window diminishes radically...

    Launching (which I have done a couple of times recently) is the main killer... the box is old, I have a lot of power, the box is designed for a car with 200ftlbs... take from that what you will

    Not much I can really do to improve reliability but I can mitigate failure by not launching and doing rolling starts that don't shock the drive train into submission...

    It is what it is... good job that there is a fairly decent supply of gearboxes :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  14. Andrew@A.L.D

    Andrew@A.L.D May add NOS to 600+bhp S3.

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    I put a massive crack my box due to launching it hard. One of many reasons it’s off the road now.
     
  15. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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  16. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    Was that your dyno on FB???????
    Confused as your drivetrain had sh!t the bed.

    Just when Nick was catching you up....
     
  17. hydro s3

    hydro s3 S3 amk

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    I was having a look on gumtree tuffty and there was a gearbox on it for or cars for £90 If that is any use to you.
     
  18. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Nah... was another car of a similar spec... potentially mine could do similar but be happy to get her back to 570hp...

    I have now sorted a gear/transfer box out... will be splitting the box when it arrives to inspect, clean and refurb as required...

    Not going to go silly on things like 02Q forks etc but will do the std fork mods to get rid of the rivets and I may get the input shaft mod done too to deal with the flex...

    Will attempt to get her in the air tomorrow or thursday to evaluate the rest of the damage... I may yet need other parts :/

    <tuffty/>
     
  19. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Not a gumtree fan... but thanks... I have sorted one now :)

    <tuffty/>
     
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  20. antwan64og

    antwan64og Registered User

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    I don’t usually believe in coincidences but I saw a Gt35 S3 stroker, 1000cc injectors and a dyno with the name Paul at Badger5.

    Fingers crossed the damage is minor, you could always convert to wrong wheel drive, lol
     
  21. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm on the operator list on the dyno... was more back when we first set it all up... I used to do the odd dyno run but haven't done it for some time... it just defaults to my name when the software loads for some reason...

    I think I'll stick to as many wheel drive as the cars hardware will tolerate between breaking :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  22. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    thats roberts S3 (goubo on here)
     
  23. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    I cant be ***** to change it any more.. so paul gets the blame now for everything on the dyno :p
     
  24. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Little update...

    Pressure sender arrived eventually...
    [​IMG]

    Essentially the same as the more expensive Zada Tech sensor I am using only less than a quarter of the price...

    Have sourced a gearbox/transfer box now... this should be arriving in the next week or so... plans are to split the box, clean it, do the rivet mod on the std forks and if I can sort it in a timely manner I might get the main shaft insert done...

    Seeing as the rain has subsided today I went out and jacked the car up to inspect the damage...

    ...that went well :)
    [​IMG]

    ...would appear to be bits missing...
    [​IMG]

    ...now in widescreen :)
    [​IMG]

    ...thankfully the damage seems isolated to the transfer box itself...
    [​IMG]

    ...and the prop looks 'connected' still (albeit wirelessly!)
    [​IMG]

    All looks fairly good thankfully :)

    <tuffty/>
     
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  25. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    Wow somebody let a grenade off in the transfer case. That's not going to come off easily I bet.
     
  26. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Its in enough bits that it will come off with the box... no problem with that as a different box is going on :)

    <tuffty/>
     
  27. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    is the dog bone mount bent?

    do you think some of this is caused by resonating too much due to poly bush mounts fracturing the casing, or is simply caused by 400lb/ft++ twisting itself in half?
     
  28. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Nope...

    over 400ftlb, 130k miles on a gearbox rated to 270ftlbs... bare in mind my car has been running over 380hp for most of the 9 years I have owned it...

    Fairly normal at this power for 02M gearboxes to break...

    <tuffty/>
     
  29. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    I suppose if there is nothing to give, (clutch slip,wheels spin etc) then the metal just breaks. how come haldex clutches dont slip?

    I did put the ++ next to the 400 as couldn't remember how much it was ;)
     
  30. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    They do but being multiplate the clamping force it pretty big... also bare in mind that all this is initially transmitted through the DMF and Sachs 4 puck plate... hydraulically operated multiplate clutch will have more clamping force than that...

    Simple fact is... the components used in the drive train are built to a price and design limits... any form of modifying will narrow the reliability window...

    It is what it is...

    <tuffty/>
     
  31. desertstorm

    desertstorm Moderator Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User

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    TBH quite amazing it works for any length of time at all working so far outside it's design limits. And as you say if you show a bit of mechanical sympathy and try and avoid full bore launches it will last longer.
     
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  32. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    Flexible drive shafts and prop shafts!

    That's the answer, although how do you get there?

    Didn't Red Bull use flexible drive shafts as a firm of traction control? They then are the small amount of mechanical give needed for the metal work.



    Or what about a "girdle" like the one for the sump and a custom shaft, might be more expensive than the custom casing support Andrew posted.
     
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  34. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    The answer realistically is mechanical sympathy...

    You can spend thousands of pounds making the gearbox a bit stronger but its only as strong as the weakest point... in this case its the casting...

    There are already established mods to 'strengthen' the box and as it appears the transfer box... there is of course associated cost to this and no guarantee that they will prevent the demise of the gearbox...

    This is evidenced by Stacey who still managed to strip gears and bend the forks on his gearbox despite having all the available upgrades applied... granted he uses his car for drag racing but that just highlights the root cause...

    02M gearboxes are relatively cheap to buy but decent ones a bit thin on the ground... with no launching and a few select modifications then there is no reason why the drive train won't survive a relatively long time but I am not really prepared to throw money at something that is essentially consumable

    It turns a £100 repair into a potential £400 repair without 4 times the longevity...

    Another avenue to explore will be the newer 02Q boxes... there are a few things to over come before this is viable though... the boxes themselves are essentially 02M internally so not really much stronger but they are more plentiful and lower mileage...

    They don't however always have the speedo drive as later cars took speed from the ABS unit rather than the speedo drive... there is a possible solution for this as the IECU sees speed from the ABS... in discussion with Brian over this it should be possible that a firmware upgrade could enable a feature to emulate the signal from the speedo drive so that you can use both 02M and 02Q type boxes...

    The other issue is that the 02Q version of the transfer box is 'longer'... this requires a shorter driveshaft to allow it to work... I don't recall the exact details (discovered this while putting Alex from DTA's car together as he had an SQS box built from an 02Q) but Alex ended up getting a custom shaft made...

    We did try a few standard ones and there may well be a shaft thats a bolt on (Mk5 and above geometry is different enough that a std shaft won't necessarily work) but Alex got a custom shaft made in the end which is also an option but only if 02Q is made a viable option through the IECU...

    If there was a way to build a box that you could be sure would last then great but unfortunately getting one even close would cost more money than I care to spend...

    <tuffty/>
     
  35. Goubo1

    Goubo1 Registered User

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    Bummer about the car but had a good innings at your power level dude

    Thoughts on potential dsg ??
     
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  36. Tj 0785

    Tj 0785 Registered User Bronze Supporter Silver Supporter VCDS Map User

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    Aren’t the dsg boxes good for 500+ bhp aswell
     
  37. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Nah... ECU doesn't support all the comms needed to work with it... I have asked but certain features won't work and its untested... not sure I can be ar$ed with that as DSG boxes are even more problematic than manuals

    <tuffty/>
     
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  38. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    That’s what I was going to ask. DQ box.
    Isn’t Sam doing this?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  39. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah... ironically was chatting to him about it not so long ago but he is having issues with getting the ECU he wanted to use to communicate with it... this is what prompted my discussion with Ignitron to see if the IECU could be used but too many unknowns for me personally to be bothered to do it...

    The boxes are expensive and not without their own issues and as much as I love my car... sometimes... I don't really want to throw another huge chunk of cash at it other than maybe a respray..

    I like a manual box tbh...

    <tuffty/>
     
  40. Stuart B

    Stuart B Registered User

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    What do RS3's etc have, migration option?

    When I was looking for flexible driveshafts, I found an interesting website for a hotrod company who make aluminium drive shafts and even carbon fibre to support 1500bhp it reckoned standard steel driveshafts are not properly balanced so are poor after a certain amount of revs per minute.

    The thing is - now you know it can break you will always be worried it's going to.
     
  41. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    I am not really that worried... thats the point I am trying to make... I knew it could and was expecting it to break... and thats not the only weak point... the CV's shear, the driveshafts twist... where do you stop....

    Flexible driveshafts, dog gearsets etc are all specialist (and expensive) kit... my car is not used for competition where budget for components like this is generally not an issue... you are overthinking the issue tbh especially for intended use...

    As I have said before... the gearbox has survived 40k miles of big turbo use and I have shortened its life through launching...

    A standard box will 'put up' with the power I run... I can drive quickly without consequence but under no illusion that longevity is reduced... same with my engine... while arguably there is no reason why it couldn't go on for 200k miles I doubt very much it will put up with my level of tune for 200k miles...

    Stuff wears out, the components on the car are off the shelf parts used to build cars in volume and I really have no interest in funding and developing parts that are designed to get you through 15laps of a race to prevent failure on the 14th...

    I prefer to put my efforts into using as much off the shelf stuff as I can get away with else all it really does is make owning the car far too expensive a proposition for no appreciable gain...

    When modding cars to this level there is always a level of risk... cars that leave the factory wit this level of power are built very differently and the uprated components are reflected in the cost of the vehicle... I would rather not spend super car money to get a marginal increase in reliability...

    Anyway... just got this from the guy I bought the box from...
    29993995_2137931106222471_1256032584_o.jpg

    Bit of cleaning to do when it arrives :)

    <tuffty/>
     
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  42. Erikn89nl

    Erikn89nl Registered User

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    And the obligatory "painted something" post :)
     
  43. <tuffty/>

    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition...Its all about the flow... Staff Member Moderator

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    obvs...

    <tuffty/>
     

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