MTM tuning box

[A_Davison]

PFL ‘16 plate RS3, looking in to tuning but don’t want a temps due to warranty’s purposes.

MTM have caught my eye with heir Cantronic tuning boxes - has anyone got any experience with these ?

https://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/R...p-Quattro?FZID=RS38VSB270Q&KIT=m2rs3367415qmv

Many thanks

 

[Terminator x]

Few reports that it messes badly with the ecu eg car doesn't like it and tries to correct what it sees as a problem. Ones I know that had it no longer do.

TX.

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[A_Davison]

Few reports that it messes badly with the ecu eg car doesn't like it and tries to correct what it sees as a problem. Ones I know that had it no longer do.

TX.

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

Thanks TX.

Any recommendations of more compatible alternatives?

 

[Evil Diesel]

Me too - heard bad things on the MTM box. Not one for me.

 

[Terminator x]

Custom tunes are best option although possible TD1 flag which puts a lot of people off. A mild tune say stage 1 should get you to 430hp and let's face it is still well within tolerances for the engine.

TX.

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[Evil Diesel]

imo, if you want to go down the tuning route, you want to go to MRC. Maybe the forthcoming JB4 is an option if you want a piggyback to avoid telling your insurers (which is a fairly pants idea really), but a proper tune is always the best.

 

[betaone68]

PFL ‘16 plate RS3, looking in to tuning but don’t want a temps due to warranty’s purposes.

MTM have caught my eye with heir Cantronic tuning boxes - has anyone got any experience with these ?

https://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/R...p-Quattro?FZID=RS38VSB270Q&KIT=m2rs3367415qmv

Many thanks

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174/5000

I had MTM Cantronic. I attach Dyno test. Using gasoline 98 ron car with original configuration reached 390 hp, with MTM 400 hp, increased torque around 5kg.

 

[betaone68]

 

[D0C]

Hmm, for 10hp I wouldn't bother.

 

[jungle650]

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174/5000

I had MTM Cantronic. I attach Dyno test. Using gasoline 98 ron car with original configuration reached 390 hp, with MTM 400 hp, increased torque around 5kg.
View attachment 152983

Surely the MTM box wasnt calibrated correctly for the engine. At 10bhp difference its pretty much acting as a pass through unit.

On the S3 the MTM delivers exactly what the manufactured stated. Appx 60 bhp increase and noticeable increase in torque. In a very compact and easy to install/remove package. Throws zero error codes and people have used them for many miles trouble free on the 2.0 Engine.

The 2.5 5 cyc unit may well be different but not sure why. For the RS3 400 newer models it is however quite expensive at over £2,200 for the new Gen 2 silver boxes. Gen 1 will only work on PFL RS3. Which puts it closer ( but still cheaper ) than the similar Abt offerings.

If looking for a Gen 1 box on an PFL RS3 MTM / QST are offering discounts currently before the end of April.

ECU tune is still the cheaper route but not many taking it at present on the newer cars. Plenty of PFL models have seen good gains as stated above. There remains high expectations for the new Alu 400 PS units within the tuning world with early results looking very promising with circa 465-480 bhp from a simple stage 1. I guess you need to ask yourself is circa 400bhp enough for you? For most it is.

 

[T-800]

MTM box was a waste of time and money, on 2 peoples RS3's i know of, it didn't make the claimed power at all........

Not cheap either at £1400+

Facelift one is up at over 2K

 

[Neil_79]

I'm really interested in this discussion.

I had an MTM tuning box on my Golf Mk 7 R previously which was for me, the ideal solution, although I recognise that a full map would always deliver more over a tuning box. Whilst I haven't long taken delivery of my FL RS3, I had been speaking to QST about the 2nd Generation M-Cantronic option for the car, and also been looking at the ABT option.

Has anyone had any experience of the ABT solution?

 

[D0C]

My issue with these tuning boxes is becoming the cost of them. Even a DTUK box is over £600. That's as much as a remap from MRC. The boxes from MTM and ABT that are costing £1000's, I don't see the point. I'd rather save the money and have a remap. The money I save can go towards any potential repair bills if Audi refuses a warranty claim.

 

[A_Davison]

For me I just want the security of keeping my warranty, hence a tuning box being the best bet for me just now. For example if the gearbox failed.. the additional 4-500£ you may have saved by going with the map isn’t going to count for much should you need a new gearbox!

Has anyone had any issues with dtuk and the like ?

 

[Beebee-one]

PFL ‘16 plate RS3, looking in to tuning but don’t want a temps due to warranty’s purposes.

MTM have caught my eye with heir Cantronic tuning boxes - has anyone got any experience with these ?

https://www.mtm-online.de/en/Audi/R...p-Quattro?FZID=RS38VSB270Q&KIT=m2rs3367415qmv

Many thanks

Been there with the MTM Cantronic, done it, tested it on dyno and 1/4 drag strip comparison against a stock car - conclusion? Dont waste your money.

As a heads up, my dealer who has serviced all my tuned Audi's over the past 6 years (and even repaired one too but not due to the tuning mods) has warned me that Audi are updating their software so that even tuning boxes can now be detected (I think the phrase is 'suspected modifications') even if it is removed before servicing.

 

[D0C]

Fair point @A_Davison and I'm not fundamentally against tuning boxes...I had one on my Golf R which worked well. Tried one on the RS3 and it didn't seem to do anything.

I would also note Beebee's comment above. I have heard similar news that tuning boxes can now be detected as having been used, even if removed. If this really is the case, then the whole USP of the tuning box is gone.

 

[jungle650]

I guess the annoying thing is that in Europe you can purchase the Abt power increases direct from a main dealer and keep your Audi warranty. Similar to what Mountune offer on the fast Fords. Its juts a shame Audi UK dont offer an official warranty safe ‘ upgrade route’. Maybe thats somthing for the future now the ‘ Audi Sport ‘ brand has been launched?? I think if priced right many people would jump at the chance to make theirs an RS+ product and keep their warranty in place!

 

[Callump01]

I guess the annoying thing is that in Europe you can purchase the Abt power increases direct from a main dealer and keep your Audi warranty. Similar to what Mountune offer on the fast Fords. Its juts a shame Audi UK dont offer an official warranty safe ‘ upgrade route’. Maybe thats somthing for the future now the ‘ Audi Sport ‘ brand has been launched?? I think if priced right many people would jump at the chance to make theirs an RS+ product and keep their warranty in place!

Agreed, such a shame that there's no official route for a modest remap that lets you keep your warranty... the car is more than capable of squeezing out more power than Audi let on too. I loved fitting MP215 on my little Fiesta ST.

 

[Terminator x]

Been there with the MTM Cantronic, done it, tested it on dyno and 1/4 drag strip comparison against a stock car - conclusion? Dont waste your money.

As a heads up, my dealer who has serviced all my tuned Audi's over the past 6 years (and even repaired one too but not due to the tuning mods) has warned me that Audi are updating their software so that even tuning boxes can now be detected (I think the phrase is 'suspected modifications') even if it is removed before servicing.

TB1 flag is the rumour.

TX.

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[Terminator x]

I guess the annoying thing is that in Europe you can purchase the Abt power increases direct from a main dealer and keep your Audi warranty. Similar to what Mountune offer on the fast Fords. Its juts a shame Audi UK dont offer an official warranty safe ‘ upgrade route’. Maybe thats somthing for the future now the ‘ Audi Sport ‘ brand has been launched?? I think if priced right many people would jump at the chance to make theirs an RS+ product and keep their warranty in place!

Totally agree. RS's seemingly being forced to be less noisy so a "proper" RS exhaust fitted when it lands would be ideal warranty intact as you say.

TX.

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[D0C]

TB1 flag is the rumour.

TX.

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Recall seeing a memo to Audi dealerships explaining about TB1 for tuning boxes...

 

[Phil3]

That memo was in a thread on here a good while back... I remember scanning over it too

 

[T-800]

 

[oli356]

@DJAlix what's your experience with this as you have one right and assuming you have access to the tools mentioned above? Might be wrong though

 

[DJAlix]

@DJAlix what's your experience with this as you have one right and assuming you have access to the tools mentioned above? Might be wrong though

The box pictured is an MTM and actually a bad example for them to use as it can only be detected via manual investigation and inspection. A lot of effort is needed to read ecu records in order to prove a box like this has been connected.

TB1 is real and is in place but the key word here is “suspected”. ODIS cannot interrogate a tuning box so it looks for possible clues like any generated errors, typically from a user adjustable box like a dtuk where someone might turn everything up to 11 and start to get over fueling and engine speed DTC’s. ODIS looks at these, puts 2 and 2 together and flags and requests manual assistance to investigate. The tech would then be asked to look the sensor connections for clean spots / finger marks etc etc. If needed ecu records would be interrogated.

I have an MTM Gen 2 box myself and I always disconnect it before connecting ODIS up.

 

[oli356]

Thanks for the info @DJAlix

 

[bond1313]

The box pictured is an MTM and actually a bad example for them to use as it can only be detected via manual investigation and inspection. A lot of effort is needed to read ecu records in order to prove a box like this has been connected.

TB1 is real and is in place but the key word here is “suspected”. ODIS cannot interrogate a tuning box so it looks for possible clues like any generated errors, typically from a user adjustable box like a dtuk where someone might turn everything up to 11 and start to get over fueling and engine speed DTC’s. ODIS looks at these, puts 2 and 2 together and flags and requests manual assistance to investigate. The tech would then be asked to look the sensor connections for clean spots / finger marks etc etc. If needed ecu records would be interrogated.

I have an MTM Gen 2 box myself and I always disconnect it before connecting ODIS up.

Hi if you cleared all errors with something like Ross tech would Odis still find the errors somewhere else?

 

[DJAlix]

Hi if you cleared all errors with something like Ross tech would Odis still find the errors somewhere else?

Technically yes but if there are no errors / DTC's then ODIS has no reason to go digging

I should have said actually anyone with a tuning box should remove it and then have any errors cleared, and then drive around for a few days without it before going in for any dealership works.

Edit: This is why I like the MTM as I have never seen them generate any errors. I think the JB4 is pretty good like that also.

 

[Beebee-one]

Technically yes but if there are no errors / DTC's then ODIS has no reason to go digging

I should have said actually anyone with a tuning box should remove it and then have any errors cleared, and then drive around for a few days without it before going in for any dealership works.

Edit: This is why I like the MTM as I have never seen them generate any errors. I think the JB4 is pretty good like that also.

No errors eh? .....probably because the MTM Cantronic doesn't really generate enough power to worry the various limits on the engine......
Sorry Alix , just being facetious

 

[DJAlix]

No errors eh? .....probably because the MTM Cantronic doesn't really generate enough power to worry the various limits on the engine......
Sorry Alix , just being facetious

Lol maybe for the RS3 but on my A3 it’s a rather nice boost

 

[oli356]

So fitted mine to the S3 today (bought it from @jungle650 as he's now got the RS3 so sold it).

Only drove it briefly but it does feel quicker, kinda like when first got the S3 and the power is a bit scary that feeling came back again. Need to do a dyno really, though I can't be bothered to remove it in between runs (and have to pay like £80 or something for 2 runs), might just do a run with it fitted and then make the assumption that the car stock is what Audi claim ... though idk if that's a totally wrong assumption to make? so really should do a before and after...

Maybe DJAlix can plug in to mine when I see you at Vag at the Manor and see if there's any errors, will have been fitted a while by then

 

[D0C]

While you're about, many thanks for yesterday @DJAlix

For anyone wanting any coding done to their car, Alex is your man. Total gentleman and knows his stuff.

 

[DJAlix]

While you're about, many thanks for yesterday @DJAlix

For anyone wanting any coding done to their car, Alex is your man. Total gentleman and knows his stuff.

Thank you sir. Was great to meet you and your car yesterday! Hope you liked the LBW GTRs also!

 

[DJAlix]

So fitted mine to the S3 today (bought it from @jungle650 as he's now got the RS3 so sold it).

Only drove it briefly but it does feel quicker, kinda like when first got the S3 and the power is a bit scary that feeling came back again. Need to do a dyno really, though I can't be bothered to remove it in between runs (and have to pay like £80 or something for 2 runs), might just do a run with it fitted and then make the assumption that the car stock is what Audi claim ... though idk if that's a totally wrong assumption to make? so really should do a before and after...

Maybe DJAlix can plug in to mine when I see you at Vag at the Manor and see if there's any errors, will have been fitted a while by then

Be more than happy to connect up

 

[DJAlix]

..... and here it is ladies and gents, ODIS just kicked in to its “hunting” mode while connected to a customer that was just here:



Had to sit there for ages before it said that all was ok and no further action needed.

 

[-Ju-]

So fitted mine to the S3 today (bought it from @jungle650 as he's now got the RS3 so sold it).

Only drove it briefly but it does feel quicker, kinda like when first got the S3 and the power is a bit scary that feeling came back again. Need to do a dyno really, though I can't be bothered to remove it in between runs (and have to pay like £80 or something for 2 runs), might just do a run with it fitted and then make the assumption that the car stock is what Audi claim ... though idk if that's a totally wrong assumption to make? so really should do a before and after...

Maybe DJAlix can plug in to mine when I see you at Vag at the Manor and see if there's any errors, will have been fitted a while by then

I've not been on the dyno with mine but I have done a couple of 0-60 runs back to back using my p3cars guage and it did make 1/2 second difference to 60, it also sounds a little throatier when fitted.
Shame it doesn't seem to offer much on the RS3 as it's a cracking bit of kit and is such a doddle to remove and refit!

 

[RS3ER]

Been there with the MTM Cantronic, done it, tested it on dyno and 1/4 drag strip comparison against a stock car - conclusion? Dont waste your money.

As a heads up, my dealer who has serviced all my tuned Audi's over the past 6 years (and even repaired one too but not due to the tuning mods) has warned me that Audi are updating their software so that even tuning boxes can now be detected (I think the phrase is 'suspected modifications') even if it is removed before servicing.

that's a myth about being detected not proven yet read the posts from page 1-4

https://www.audirs3oc.com/topic/4506-this-is-circulating-around-vag-dealers/page-4

 

[RS3ER]

also ECU map is risky not all happy days mate of mine had a RS3 pfl mapped with DMS he now needs a new ECU

Chassis Type: 8V-AU37 (5Q0)
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 10 14 15 16 17 19 22 42 44 47 52 55 5F BB BC

VIN: WUAZZZ8VXGA900574 Mileage: 35569km-22101miles
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
14-Susp. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
22-AWD -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
BB-Door Rear Drv -- Status: OK 0000
BC-Door Rear Pass -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (------CZGB) Labels:. 07K-907-309-V1.clb
Part No SW: 8V0 907 404 HW: 07K 907 309 C
Component: 2.5l R5/4V TF H52 0005
Revision: NKH52---
Coding: 12250032252601032600
Shop #: WSC 06325 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM25TFS0118V0907404 001006
ROD: EV_ECM25TFS0118V0907404.rod
VCID: 76A03A70C9A2839AE5E-8022
6 Faults Found:
11913 - Start/Stop System; Maximum Time for Restart Exceeded
P167E 00 [096] - -
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 35554 km
Date: 2018.01.26
Time: 00:36:28
Engine speed: 0.00 /min
Normed load value: 41.2 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 86 °C
Intake air temperature: 23 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 11.180 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 39
Outside air temperature via CAN: 7.5 °C
Engine oil temperature: 86.2 °C
Time since ignition off: 0 s
Adjustment requirements for basic setting-Bits 0-7: 119
Rear cat conv temp main cat conv model value: 602.64 °C
Coolant temperature at engine start: 87.0 °C
24449 - Internal Control Module EEPROM Error
P062F 00 [047] - -
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 35550 km
Date: 2018.01.25
Time: 01:16:58
Engine speed: 758.00 /min
Normed load value: 17.3 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 97 °C
Intake air temperature: 44 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.520 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3
24450 - Internal Control Module EEPROM Error
P062F 00 [047] - -
Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 35550 km
Date: 2018.01.25
Time: 01:16:58
Engine speed: 758.00 /min
Normed load value: 17.3 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 97 °C
Intake air temperature: 44 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1000 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.520 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3
4514 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0321 00 [096] - Implausible Signal
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 35569 km
Date: 2018.01.29
Time: 11:04:26
Engine speed: 195.00 /min
Normed load value: 60.8 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 30 °C
Intake air temperature: 14 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1020 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 10.560 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_CRANKING
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 2
4087 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0322 00 [232] - No Signal
MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 4
Mileage: 35554 km
Date: 2018.01.26
Time: 00:36:26
Engine speed: 0.00 /min
Normed load value: 0.0 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 87 °C
Intake air temperature: 23 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 11.200 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Engine status: COENG_READY
Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 1
18105 - Catalyst System; Bank 1
P0420 00 [101] - Efficiency Below Threshold
Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 35554 km
Date: 2018.01.25
Time: 23:57:37
Engine speed: 1274.00 /min
Normed load value: 40.4 %
Vehicle speed: 68 km/h
Coolant temperature: 63 °C
Intake air temperature: 8 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.680 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Rear cat conv temp main cat conv model value: 601.96 °C
O2 sens. dwnstrm. of cat.: gradient transf. rich -> lean: 0.13 s
O2 sensor dwnstrm. of cat.: gradient transfer lean -> rich: 0.00 s
O2 sensor dwnstrm. of cat.: delay time transf. rich -> lean: 0.00 s
O2 sensor dwnstrm. of cat.: delay time transf. lean -> rich: 0.00 s
Readiness: 0000 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J743) Labels:. 0BH-927-711.clb
Part No SW: 0DL 300 011 D HW: 0BH 927 711 F
Component: GSG DQ500 H10 5201
Revision: 00H10V01
Coding: 0014
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMDQ500021 001001
ROD: EV_TCMDQ500021_001_VW37.rod
VCID: 291A210C489C9C62B8C-807C
1 Fault Found:
10657 - RPM Signal from ECU
P0726 00 [040] - Implausible Signal
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 8
Mileage: 35554 km
Date: 2018.01.26
Time: 00:36:38
Engine speed: 0.00 /min
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 81 °C
Clutch: primary stat: Neutral
selected gear: GANG_R
Driving position: P
Engine torque: -20 Nm
Control Module temperature: 70 °C
Accelerator position: 15.2 %
DTC memory status: 28

 

[Terminator x]

@RS3ER suggest you remove his VIN above fella!

TX.

 

[RS3ER]

@RS3ER suggest you remove his VIN above fella!

TX.

Not a problem most people who steal these type of vehicles just use a another plate, Mainly for getaway vehicles, very rearly get used for ringing too hard to get away these days, too many numbers to remove & replace.