More S3 Drama

Welly

Welly

335D Driver :-)
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OK, so did my intercooler yesterday. Big smiles. Long job getting it just right, but got there in the end with all the pipes fitting just right...

Took it out for a blast, boost hose comes off with a bang. Tickled it back home and put hose back on. Reconnected and tested on idle. All good.

Took it out, drove about a mile or so tickling along, and then started to give it a bit of boost. Was fine, all hoses seemed to be OK.

So I flat it in 2nd.

Rattle rattle rattle.....

OK, so stop on the side of the road, engine ticking over, and is still making a metallic clanking sound (almost like an engine with no oil in it - all noise coming from the top end). No EML.

Have to drive it home.

On the way home, notice that noise is rev related - i.e. more revs, more noise created.

Got home, checked spark plugs tight. Yes. Removed TB to check nothing inside. All good. Have also noticed that there appears to be a blowing from what I can only guess is the exhaust manifold, and I think I can smell exhaust gas from the back of the engines....

Anyone got any ideas? Why would a blowing exhaust manifold gasket cause a tapping? It idles fine, and drives OK (well, not being hurt obviously - didn't want to risk it).

One word. **** :(. Nice shiny intercooler. Car no worky.
 
Here's our handiwork anyway:

s3_cooler1.jpg


s3_cooler2.jpg
 
Cam timing tensioner springs to mind.... rattling timing chain at the gearbox end of the head...

<tuffty/>
 
OK, thats not a bad shout....

BUT, it doesn't really sound like a rattle. It's more of a clank sound. Metal on metal. One clank per rotation of the engine...

Also, the blowing sound is weird. It stops when someone cups their hands over then tailpipes of the exhaust - and it doesn't blow either.

I'm going to try and get out with the vid camera to see if I can get the noise so you can hear.
 
OK. Add lots of white smoke to that. Can't identify the smell of it though. I expect it's antifreeze, as it doesn't smell like burning oil.
 
Mate gutted for you.

Nice install btw, shame you cant keep the fog's though!

I get a fair bit of smoke, but put it down to the weather and the fact my car hates 5w-30 oil haha, role on 5w-40.
 
Looks like I've found the issue.

Noise was definitely coming from the head and sounded like oil starvation really. Anyway, whipped out plugs from 2, 3 & 4.

2 & 4 are fine.

3 was plastered in oil. Used my pen light to look down into the cylinder, and top of the piston is coated in oil also.

Looks like either the head gasket has gone on or near an oil gallery, or an oil gallery has cracked, and oil isn't travelling along to the far end of the head, causing the noise.

Oh goodie. Happy days hey? :(

So, off comes the head regardless of what the cause is really. It's something to that order of magnitude.
 
oh dude im so gutted for you!!

thats such bad luck if its head related issues which it does sound that way, wonder what the rattling noise is all about though, hope its not something rattling around in the bore?

little consulation to you at the moment but good effort on installing the fmic, looks good

not having much luck with this one are you :(
 
jonny87 said:
wonder what the rattling noise is all about though, hope its not something rattling around in the bore?
Click to expand...

Na, I don't think it is. I think that the rattling noise is simply lack of oil to the tappets on cylinder 4, from where the oil meant to be lubing them is disappearing into cylinder 3 and being burnt! It sound simply like and engine with no oil in - but just on one side!

I initially thought it might be an oil circulation issue, and it is, just a spot worse than I thought!
 
COuld it have been a det issue??

Colder air is less dense, more air requires more fuel, not enough fuel means too much combustion heat, too much combustion heat means pre-ignition, pre ignition means BANG :-(
 
Welly said:
Na, I don't think it is. I think that the rattling noise is simply lack of oil to the tappets on cylinder 4, from where the oil meant to be lubing them is disappearing into cylinder 3 and being burnt! It sound simply like and engine with no oil in - but just on one side!

I initially thought it might be an oil circulation issue, and it is, just a spot worse than I thought!
Click to expand...

hmmmm yer that would make sense

you gonna whip the head off yourself?
 
jonny87 said:
MIKE GTR said:
Colder air is less dense, QUOTE]

isnt it the colder the air the more dense it is?
Click to expand...

No its less, thats why we cool it with intercoolers - its the same theory as fitting a turbo to a nomrally aspirated car, you want to get more air in as quickly as possible to enable you to out more fuel in and more power out. Therefore cold air allows more in
Click to expand...
 
jonny87 said:
MIKE GTR said:
Colder air is less dense,
Click to expand...

isnt it the colder the air the more dense it is?
Click to expand...

I think that what he meant.... I can't see it though to be honest. Not for it to happen immediately. I assume it's been on its way out for a bit now, and changing the boost pipe layout (since there is, or was, much less lag) has aggravated it into going.

I'm umming and ahhing about doing it myself I must admit. I still have the A3 to use if needs be... I'm just not sure I can really be *****!
 
MIKE GTR said:
No its less, thats why we cool it with intercoolers - its the same theory as fitting a turbo to a nomrally aspirated car, you want to get more air in as quickly as possible to enable you to out more fuel in and more power out. Therefore cold air allows more in
Click to expand...

Sorry dude, but that's wrong. Cooler air is MORE dense than warm air. This is why hot air rises.

The reason air is cooled with an intercooler is to make it more dense. Colder (denser) physically has more particles of oxygen in it, and therefore more fuel can be added to the same volume of air to produce a better explosion.

See here: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_cold_air_more_dense_than_warm_air and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler
 
Your theory was sound mate, the basic principle of the cooler is to get more atoms of air into the combustion chamber. It was just how it goes about it was a spot squiffy...

Wish I could be bothered to start work on the car today - but I just can't be bothered.

Me and my mate Jonny were out from 10 - 7 fitting that cooler, and then the ******* went bang on the test drive. Not in the best of moods today!
 
Welly said:
Sorry dude, but that's wrong. Cooler air is MORE dense than warm air. This is why hot air rises.

The reason air is cooled with an intercooler is to make it more dense. Colder (denser) physically has more particles of oxygen in it, and therefore more fuel can be added to the same volume of air to produce a better explosion.

See here: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_cold_air_more_dense_than_warm_air and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler
Click to expand...

i knew it, just wasnt 100% as i still feel p*ssed from last night and im not trusting my brain atm lol

got the a3 fixed now then dude? good job really!!

what kind of job is it to get the head off on these, run of the mill or pita?
 
Never ever done one mate, so god knows. PITA I expect.

Yeah, A3 works again. If one is working, there other usually isn't. I'm glad I haven't sold it yet! :(
 
did you log it when done or just rag it after the fmic install.
asking cos of cf's and fueling may be off after fitment.

white smoke is'nt oil, its coolant.
blue is oil.
you may find more than one thing going on inside when you open the lid.

good luck with it
 
badger5 said:
did you log it when done or just rag it after the fmic install.
asking cos of cf's and fueling may be off after fitment.

white smoke is'nt oil, its coolant.
blue is oil.
you may find more than one thing going on inside when you open the lid.

good luck with it
Click to expand...

Yeah, thats what I've always thought to be honest, and you can smell a mix of coolant and oil coming out of the exhaust.

Regardless of what it is, I'm going to have to take the head off to find out what is going on if we're being honest, anything up until that point is speculation and is totally academic. It could be a million things. What I do know however is that she is making a HORRIBLE noise, and 3 has a large amount of oil in. Also, on inspection of the plug, looks like there may be something melted onto the electrode but is hard to say.

Never got the chance to rag it Bill, well, only the once when it went pop, and that was in second, and only to 4K RPM before it started sound like a bag of nails. I wouldn't mind so much if I'd of taken it out and spanked it!

I have my suspicions that when I had to tickle it home, when the boost hose was off the front, she's sucked something up and it's fouled the cylinder in some way (sounds to be head). I'm thinking valve guide maybe broken and valve not seating properly. Explains the lack of compression on that cyl, and if it's damaged to stem seal then it also explains the oil. Currently, the oil cap is like an exhaust pipe, post combustion gas comes flying out and there is an awful lot of pressure in the head so something is very damaged.

However, as I said, I don't know until it comes off so will be able to see soon enough.

A positive spin is that the cam belt was due soon anyway!

Work commences tonight after we prepped my garage (i.e. moving all the crap out of it) last night. Watch this space...

Also Bill, is it worth getting the head gas flowed whilst it's off?
 
Except the white smoke bit, that sounds exactly like what my skyline done and that i'm afraid was a broken ringland on the piston, fingers crossed its not that on yours
 
Oh, and the A3 feels soooooooo slow and unrefined to drive now....

Although you do get a massive amount of wheel spin in 1st 2nd and 3rd.... which is always fun.... :). Good job I never actually sold it really!
 
Welly said:
Yeah, thats what I've always thought to be honest, and you can smell a mix of coolant and oil coming out of the exhaust.

Regardless of what it is, I'm going to have to take the head off to find out what is going on if we're being honest, anything up until that point is speculation and is totally academic. It could be a million things. What I do know however is that she is making a HORRIBLE noise, and 3 has a large amount of oil in. Also, on inspection of the plug, looks like there may be something melted onto the electrode but is hard to say.

Never got the chance to rag it Bill, well, only the once when it went pop, and that was in second, and only to 4K RPM before it started sound like a bag of nails. I wouldn't mind so much if I'd of taken it out and spanked it!

I have my suspicions that when I had to tickle it home, when the boost hose was off the front, she's sucked something up and it's fouled the cylinder in some way (sounds to be head). I'm thinking valve guide maybe broken and valve not seating properly. Explains the lack of compression on that cyl, and if it's damaged to stem seal then it also explains the oil. Currently, the oil cap is like an exhaust pipe, post combustion gas comes flying out and there is an awful lot of pressure in the head so something is very damaged.

However, as I said, I don't know until it comes off so will be able to see soon enough.

A positive spin is that the cam belt was due soon anyway!

Work commences tonight after we prepped my garage (i.e. moving all the crap out of it) last night. Watch this space...

Also Bill, is it worth getting the head gas flowed whilst it's off?
Click to expand...

It could be worth a tickle yes... but I would fear something will be found which may prevent this from being possible
 
badger5 said:
It could be worth a tickle yes... but I would fear something will be found which may prevent this from being possible
Click to expand...

Only time will tell...

I haven't discounted the idea that a replacement cylinder head may be required! Hoping not though.... with a bit of luck (of which I appear to have NONE!)
 
you sure bought yourself a whole world of hurt with this S3
hope its not too bad news when you lift the lid
 
It never rains, it pours! This is what you get when you buy a car with '13' in the number plate.... lol :)
 
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