more power = bent rods

one word to sum this whole thread up...

"P A N T S"

Will not let this miss-information or bias opinion dictate my purchasing of a TIP from Bill, will still buy one as I know Bill is a trustworthy person and has extensive knowledge of tuning cars.

This thread should be locked and deleted as it's only designed for one thing, to upset the current group buy running on the TIP.

G
 
finesse said:
No conclusive evidence on what causes rods to bend / break - just speculation
Click to expand...

Not really true.

Torque causes rods to bend, thats fact, not speculation.

Whats an unknown is just how much it takes, and it will never be a known because metal like a rod doesnt just hold out perfectly and then implode when you exceed its torque rating by 1lbft.

What happens is the rod begins to fatigue. The more torque the quicker it will fatigue enough to actually snap or bend. Similarly the older the engine or the more miles its done, or the harder its driven, then the rods have seen more torque and will have fatigued more than a brand new engine driven by a gran.

When Audi design a rod they spec it so the fatigue is so small its more or less negligible. Once you tune the engine this is no longer the case.
 
The logs that have been done with the B5 3" TIP have shown that due to it being able to allow the turbo to flow more efficiently that boost levels tend to come down at least 1 PSI and people have been making more power with less torque so this is not the cause of the bent rod.
 
When I bent my number 3 rod (time for the stock photo below.....)....

10.jpg


.....I had just fitted a very large front mounted intercooler. And I mean just, the rod bent on the test run.

Does this mean that the intercooler is to blame, and no-one should ever fit one on pain of bendage? I think not. It was one of those unfortunate things, and I am very sure that all the intercooler did was accentuate an already underlying problem.

Now bear in mind that an intercooler will make NO extra boost and NO extra power, I'm sorry but it makes a complete mockery of the theory put forward.

So, based on the theory put forward here, I would suggest that noone ever do anything to their engine. No maps, no intercoolers, no TIPs, because it MIGHT just wind the clock forward on a problem already waiting to happen.

Man what a sh*te site this would be.

I'm Terry Tibbs, thank you and goodnight.
 
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Please read my thread slowly, MAYBE means I am not stating any facts, it's not my car it's a friends, it's not my specialist it's a friends. And If anyone can tell me that a mod that increases power doesn't increase the probability of bent rods as do all other mods of this nature.
 
shanejess said:
Please read my thread slowly, MAYBE means I am not stating any facts, it's not my car it's a friends, it's not my specialist it's a friends. And If anyone can tell me that a mod that increases power doesn't increase the probability of bent rods as do all other mods of this nature.
Click to expand...

Well looking at the mods you've done in your sig, you don't seem to be too worried about it dude really!

Bottom line, you roll the dice and you take your turn. Some are lucky, and some aren't. I was unlucky, so I know how it feels.

Poor maintenance, poor mapping and too high torque spikes bend rods. End of.
 
Ok Shane, probably got his facts wrong, no need for the asn proletariat to jump on him like bagdger5 is going give them a free 3" tip

The brown nosing in this forum is shameful


Rods break / bend -

Fatigue
Torque
Oil starvation
Boost etc
 
finesse said:
Ok Shane, probably got his facts wrong, no need for the asn proletariat to jump on him like bagdger5 is going give them a free 3" tip

The brown nosing in this forum is shameful
Click to expand...

Yeah, because I need a K04 TIP....

I'm just unhappy with the level of factual info here.
 
shanejess said:
Please read my thread slowly, MAYBE means I am not stating any facts, it's not my car it's a friends, it's not my specialist it's a friends. And If anyone can tell me that a mod that increases power doesn't increase the probability of bent rods as do all other mods of this nature.
Click to expand...

Modding your engine in anyway to increase its power can increase the probability of failure (unless you mitigate against this by upgrading the internals too) however your starting post says...
... all engine mods come with a level of taking a chance but this one maybe a ROD BENDER.
Click to expand...

That implies you are directing blame at the last mod fitted in this case the TIP... that statement is woefully incorrect... the accumulation of mods combined with the age of the engine, driving style, mapping etc are all contributory factors in potential engine failure..

Not so long ago there was a huge thread discussing rods and why they fail... yes torque is the main culprit but bent rods weren't being seen on low mileage newish cars... there is however a trend for higher mileage engines to bend rods though but its totally subjective as to the circumstances behind this...

Your friend was plain unlucky but rod failure tbh isn't unexpected regardless of the level of tune...

As Aragorn has mentioned, Audi built the rods to withstand the life of the engine on the level of tune it rolled out with... thats all they are obliged to do... the K03 turbo'd 20v's all went to 19mm rods from around 2001 but Audi kept the K04 turbo'd engine at 20mm... this was because they know the 19mm rods would be too weak long term... says a lot but doesn't mean the 20mm are perfect either...

Rod failure on engines with minor mods and in this I include stage 1/2 maps that retain the turbo supplied with the original car is subjective at best...

<tuffty/>
 
LOL Finesse

Brown nosing...as if we are all here for a free TIP....we are clearly stating "F A C T" mate. Information is wrong and needs correcting, simples! Otherwise many users would take this post for being gospel and think TIP is a bad idea, when it clearly isn't.

Nothing to do with brown nosing at all. I have an opinion and will state it.

G
 
Gt30 you keep posting my rod bender quote do you understand the word maybe, maybe a rod bender maybe maybe maybe. The point of a forum is to give information to others, i havnt said the tip is to blame nor is it my car or my specialist who has looked at the car, im passing on information from a unfortunate stage of events.
 
even though you say "maybe" your still isolating the 3" TIP as the sole possible cause...

Maybe the stage 1 remap is the Rod bender...? No? Why No? Maybe the stage 1 remap + 3" TIP is the rod bender...? No Why no? Why maybe its the 3" tip?

Maybe its neither, maybe its that your friends car had another fault that the addition of a stgae 1 map and a 3" TIP found out? maybe there was detonation

maybe this, maybe that.... but no, lets start a thread identifying and isolating the 3" TIP as the only possible cause...?
 
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I'd suggest leaving it at this.

More power can cause rods to bend. We all know this.

It has, and will continue to happen as these engines do more and more miles, put under more stress and more fatigue creeps in. It's a mathematical certainty.

So, I'd suggest locking the thread for info. These rod threads just go on and on.
 
Mr.G said:
This thread should be locked and deleted as it's only designed for one thing, to upset the current group buy running on the TIP.

G
Click to expand...
I Really hope thats not the case as that would be very wrong, but if it has happened why close the thread? people have given there views on why it would be wrong to suggest the 3" tip was solely to blame, as stated any mod to increase the power will contribute to rod failure (if its going to happen) or any other strain on the engine/drive-train. people can make there own minds up then ..
No other factors have been mentioned like was it a reputable map or back street garage, was it serviced properly, did it have boost spikes....etc etc.....
Rods seem like the lottery some are fine some are unfortunate, Imo i still think its oil issues that start their demise...
 
What a pointless thread...

Everybody is aware that an increase in engine power is pushing the tolerances closer to the edge of what they were designed. And its been proved many times that the standard rods are the weak point but people take that risk as there is such a low percentage of failures.
 
shanejess said:
Gt30 you keep posting my rod bender quote do you understand the word maybe, maybe a rod bender maybe maybe maybe. The point of a forum is to give information to others, i havnt said the tip is to blame nor is it my car or my specialist who has looked at the car, im passing on information from a unfortunate stage of events.
Click to expand...

I understand the word perfectly well... the TIP on its own won't have caused this particular failure so your statement is still incorrect... the collection of mods and various other circumstances however have all contributed to the failure... your post reads that as the TIP was the last mod fitted then this 'maybe' what caused the failure (or 'maybe a rod bender' as you put it...) what I am saying is the TIP did not cause the failure but the act of modifying the engine has lead to the failure of which the TIP is one part...

As Cookstein has elluded too... your wording suggests you/your mate/the specialist/whatever are saying the TIP is the focus of discussion when in actual fact its the collection of mods that have actually accelerated the demise of your friends engine...

Fitting the TIP may well have 'tipped' the balance but I would put money on the engine being on borrowed time...

<tuffty/>
 
shanejess said:
ive had a friend of mine on the phone tonight hes stage 1 and last week fitted the infamous 3inch tip, hes as sick as a pig as hes sure this is what is to blame to make a rod to bend, the tip giving more air has put a greater load on the turbo on hes high milage s3, a specialist he uses has confirmed the tip would have put a greater strain on the turbo. all engine mods come with a level of taking a chance but this one maybe a ROD BENDER.
Click to expand...


What you are posting is totally inaccurate and here's why:-

Turbo is not working harder, its working more efficiently.. hence more airflow from less suction losses (ie no losses)
Boost is unchanged from what the car already requests.

Low end Torque is actually reduced but stained further up the rpm range, hence making more power.

Your so called specialist clearly does not understand how turbos work.....
 
shanejess said:
your turbo gives the torque/load. more strain on it more of the mentioned, 3inch tip gives more air than is needed.
Click to expand...

what on earth are you drivvling on about??

more air than needed? your post demonstrates how little you know about how the engine works
keep digging.......... you will keep looking more isolated and foolish
 
s3dave said:
I Really hope thats not the case as that would be very wrong, but if it has happened why close the thread? people have given there views on why it would be wrong to suggest the 3" tip was solely to blame, as stated any mod to increase the power will contribute to rod failure (if its going to happen) or any other strain on the engine/drive-train. people can make there own minds up then ..
No other factors have been mentioned like was it a reputable map or back street garage, was it serviced properly, did it have boost spikes....etc etc.....
Rods seem like the lottery some are fine some are unfortunate, Imo i still think its oil issues that start their demise...
Click to expand...

As Welly's already said, these threads go on an on and on. Pointless really.

G
 
shanejess said:
Gt30 you keep posting my rod bender quote do you understand the word maybe, maybe a rod bender maybe maybe maybe. The point of a forum is to give information to others, i havnt said the tip is to blame nor is it my car or my specialist who has looked at the car, im passing on information from a unfortunate stage of events.
Click to expand...

You need to retract your suggestion/post.... you specifically ssuggest the TIP, you say nothing of map, or anything else on the car, be it mods or poor maintenance or just plain bad luck. 1.8t's bend/break rods.... way before I had the TIP, and will continue to do so when people push their engines and these engines have high milage, a lot of it with avs..

Unless there is something substantiated, which there cannot be, I would suggest this be removed.
 
How many times do I have to say this is not my car or specialist, hence I cannot tell my specialist that he is totally wrong. So after reading all the above, all mods contribute to bending of rods except the three inch tip, this is somehow exempt from blame yet many claim 15-20 increase bhp. My post was only to describe a scenario that happened, just for the record it was an APR stage one map put on 14 months ago, no other mods until the tip. Please don't comment if you're not intelligent enough to understand my original post.
 
shanejess said:
How many times do I have to say this is not my car or specialist, hence I cannot tell my specialist that he is totally wrong. So after reading all the above, all mods contribute to bending of rods except the three inch tip, this is somehow exempt from blame yet many claim 15-20 increase bhp. My post was only to describe a scenario that happened, just for the record it was an APR stage one map put on 14 months ago, no other mods until the tip. Please don't comment if you're not intelligent enough to understand my original post.
Click to expand...

oh dear oh dear.

insulting others intelligence now...

:p
 
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How ironic, your post insulting my intelligence directly has just been edited by you, to me insulting everyone else. LOL
 
Report this if you feel its breaking rules
I would of done so straight away but knew it was hogwash so just changed the title
 
I was referring to badgers post, not your original edit pal.
 
audi upgrades
AARON77 said:
****** im running a Revo, 3 inch tip, , 20 psi, 340 ft/lb and have 176000 miles on the clock
It's an
Click to expand...

The problem with bent rods lies in this answer! 20psi is a sensible boost level. I bet the map that caused the bent rods was nearer 26psi if not more. The problem is that different mappers use different boost levels and when you get to 26psi you're going to bend rods. Now put that with a new better tip and the driver is going to give his car some stick to test it out and then the problems start.

Put it down to a bad map, a good tip , high mileage engine and a heavy right foot. You put that combo in any car and you'll bend the rods!
 
shanejess said:
How ironic, your post insulting my intelligence directly has just been edited by you, to me insulting everyone else. LOL
Click to expand...

You clearly have issues.. Its not the first time you have chimed in and stirred shyte up quoting nonsense. I did edit my post yes.. Dropping to your level was unacceptable.. hence my edit.

Now unless you have something with any factual nature, supported by any evidence, your post is simply scare mongering & wildly inaccurate.

It is very evident you DONT UNDERSTAND how the thing works, and are equally ignorent to not listen either.

...and to those who have been unlucky to suffer rod failures on their 1.8t's prior to this year (3" TIP only been available this year) their reasons for failure would be because of..........???

Now do please tell me which component you would "blame"....... with equal ignorence.

Fact remains, these engines with wear and tear, high milage, poor maps, inherant other issues, can indeed result in a rod problem on occasion. It is no coincidence I recommend rods when pushing 1.8t's where many other tuners say "no they are fine" - when clearly thats as much luck as judgement.
 
LCR top mounts for sure!
 
what did you last do to the car sir? I hung a little tree on the rear view mirror..... mmmmm tut tut, that'll be your rod bender there matey

sorry :)
 
Last edited:
Come to think of it he did have a strawberry scented air freshener, recipe for disaster. Badger, you do give fantastic advice and assistance on here but your arrogance and your way or the highway mentality is embarrassing. Whether the underlying problem with my friends car was maintenance, bad map or hard driving you still can't accept that the tip contributed just as all performance mods do. I never once just blamed the tip alone that would be unfair.
 
why did you originally name the thread 'badger tip = bent rods' then.

anyway, they've bent. whats the damage do you know? whats he doing with the engine now?
 
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