Max torque (and BHP) the engine can pull? Advice

fab_giglio

Registered User
Hello All,

I have a
Car: Audi A3 1.8 TFSI (FWD) DSG
Mods: K04, aftermarket intercooler (Black editions front mount intercooler kit FMIC), K&N cool air intake, forge DV, decat exhaust.
all standard internals.

My question is how much can I push it and not blow up the engine or bend the rods?
 

samuelh_888

Registered User

fab_giglio

Registered User
With the K04 and other mods, Stg2 you'll see about 250-near 300BHP - this will be on the limit for the 1.8 both power wise and before the engine stops...

Take a look at:
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...-hp-could-you-safely-run.324416/#post-3059613
Thank you for your reply.

I did read on that thread someone mentioning that he knows someone with an 1.8 TFSI with Mods and running at 330 bhp

I wanted something around 300-310 bhp, but I was afraid the engine would not take it.
I might just stop investing in this car and save money for an S3 instead.
 

TitchRR

Registered User
Thank you for your reply.

I did read on that thread someone mentioning that he knows someone with an 1.8 TFSI with Mods and running at 330 bhp

I wanted something around 300-310 bhp, but I was afraid the engine would not take it.
I might just stop investing in this car and save money for an S3 instead.

That would be more ideal as you’ll see the figures you want with a stage 1 remap alone


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

samuelh_888

Registered User
I might just stop investing in this car and save money for an S3 instead.

I've got a couple of posts elsewhere where I mention; I started with the 1.8 but after 3 months I traded up to the S3. I could have spend '000 and had circa 250bhp. So, traded up and got 265 out of the box (plus the stronger engine, quarttro..)
 

fab_giglio

Registered User
I've got a couple of posts elsewhere where I mention; I started with the 1.8 but after 3 months I traded up to the S3. I could have spend '000 and had circa 250bhp. So, traded up and got 265 out of the box (plus the stronger engine, quarttro..)
The thing is I would love to trade it but my Audi has only done 35k miles, most S3s I see for trading are well over 80k miles and they are too expensive.
I had in my had a project but after checking prices for making my FWD become a Quattro and upgrading the breaks made me change my mind.
 

leshkin

Hold my beer...
VCDS Map User
Ignore the mileage - the most important thing is how good was the maintenance and if it feels like it had a rough life. My S3 is just shy of 80k, but feels solid. You could also look at pre-facelift S3s, which go for sub 9k now. Obviously depends on your budget, but spending money on the current car will not get you much more in terms of performance.
 

fab_giglio

Registered User
Ignore the mileage - the most important thing is how good was the maintenance and if it feels like it had a rough life. My S3 is just shy of 80k, but feels solid. You could also look at pre-facelift S3s, which go for sub 9k now. Obviously depends on your budget, but spending money on the current car will not get you much more in terms of performance.
Yes, I've noticed that. Well thanks for the heads up.
I did contact Awesome GTi and they said I can get between 310-325 Bhp and 310- 325 lb/ft torque without damaging the engine in anyway, what do you think of that? I am just a newbie in this hobbie. But I will probably just go for that and plan in the future to get an S3. I already spent quite a bit upgrading this car, now there is no return, I better off just enjoy until I get bored then swap.
 

leshkin

Hold my beer...
VCDS Map User
I couldn't comment on what Awesome said, as I've not had experience with 1.8TFSI engines, but they are knowledgeable guys with plenty of customers using the generic maps.

Ultimately, chasing peak numbers is a bit pointless in the real world as you will use that performance less than 1% of the time on the road, unless you track the car. The only thing peak numbers good for is banter at the pub and impressing people, who don't know better. The key is getting a good mid-range torque and power curve, which is where you will spend much of the time when driving and what will make the car feel powerful and give you the best enjoyment out of it.
 

fab_giglio

Registered User
I couldn't comment on what Awesome said, as I've not had experience with 1.8TFSI engines, but they are knowledgeable guys with plenty of customers using the generic maps.

Ultimately, chasing peak numbers is a bit pointless in the real world as you will use that performance less than 1% of the time on the road, unless you track the car. The only thing peak numbers good for is banter at the pub and impressing people, who don't know better. The key is getting a good mid-range torque and power curve, which is where you will spend much of the time when driving and what will make the car feel powerful and give you the best enjoyment out of it.
Mid range you mean around 280 lb/ft? That's as much as a stock S3 pulls right?
 

leshkin

Hold my beer...
VCDS Map User
Mid range you mean around 280 lb/ft? That's as much as a stock S3 pulls right?
No, the middle area of the engine rev range.

The peak numbers that are always quoted refer to the maximum power or torque at a given engine speed, with peak power being toward the top of the rev range and torque being a bit more toward the bottom of that range. Engine tuning is a process of optimising lots of different variables to get the most output across the full range of the engine speed. Many fixate at the max output numbers, which his just one data point in your typical dyno graph. Much of the performance increase after mapping is normally felt in the middle of the range with peak being the 'icing on the cake' if you will.. With that in mind, the numbers tuners quote are not representative of output across all engine speeds, just the peak. What makes the car feel fast is not this peak, but the boring bits that lead up to it :)

Have read online about how to interpret dyno graphs as that will help you to understand this more... https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/how-to-read-a-dyno-graph
 

fab_giglio

Registered User
No, the middle area of the engine rev range.

The peak numbers that are always quoted refer to the maximum power or torque at a given engine speed, with peak power being toward the top of the rev range and torque being a bit more toward the bottom of that range. Engine tuning is a process of optimising lots of different variables to get the most output across the full range of the engine speed. Many fixate at the max output numbers, which his just one data point in your typical dyno graph. Much of the performance increase after mapping is normally felt in the middle of the range with peak being the 'icing on the cake' if you will.. With that in mind, the numbers tuners quote are not representative of output across all engine speeds, just the peak. What makes the car feel fast is not this peak, but the boring bits that lead up to it :)

Have read online about how to interpret dyno graphs as that will help you to understand this more... https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/how-to-read-a-dyno-graph

I got you now! Thank you for explaining. Like I said I am a newbie to this.
 

Dikonou

Registered User
Thank you for your reply.

I did read on that thread someone mentioning that he knows someone with an 1.8 TFSI with Mods and running at 330 bhp

I wanted something around 300-310 bhp, but I was afraid the engine would not take it.
I might just stop investing in this car and save money for an S3 instead.

You will see 300ish bhp with 0.9-1.0 bar at the limiter. If you don't add any more boost at low rpms it will be at 340-360Nm The dyno graph will look as a 3.0 NA engine, but the K04 is literally sleeping with 1.0 bar of boost.
If you make 1.3 overboost and keep around 1.1-1.2 at the limiter the engine will give about 310-320 bhp and 400Nm
Most important thing is a solid map.....

I know people who run 2.0 bar and 1.5 at limiter with methanol and a 100 octane map who made 390bhp and 520Nm.....at the very limit of a K04 in a 1.8tsi CDAA engine....stock internals. Playing with fire? no question about it......but 30000 km after and it still runs.....
 

fab_giglio

Registered User
You will see 300ish bhp with 0.9-1.0 bar at the limiter. If you don't add any more boost at low rpms it will be at 340-360Nm The dyno graph will look as a 3.0 NA engine, but the K04 is literally sleeping with 1.0 bar of boost.
If you make 1.3 overboost and keep around 1.1-1.2 at the limiter the engine will give about 310-320 bhp and 400Nm
Most important thing is a solid map.....

I know people who run 2.0 bar and 1.5 at limiter with methanol and a 100 octane map who made 390bhp and 520Nm.....at the very limit of a K04 in a 1.8tsi CDAA engine....stock internals. Playing with fire? no question about it......but 30000 km after and it still runs.....
Very good info there. I will ask the guy who is doing the mapping in my car to set up to 1.3 bar and keep it around 1.1-1.2 at the limiter like you said. That sort of power is more than enough for me now, the car is a FWD and even before the upgrades the car was already having loads of wheelspin, imagine how it will be now after the new mods added...
 

leshkin

Hold my beer...
VCDS Map User
Very good info there. I will ask the guy who is doing the mapping in my car to set up to 1.3 bar and keep it around 1.1-1.2 at the limiter like you said. That sort of power is more than enough for me now, the car is a FWD and even before the upgrades the car was already having loads of wheelspin, imagine how it will be now after the new mods added...

If you're going for a custom map, I would just suggest the mapper do his/her thing rather than specifying specific boost levels.
 

Dikonou

Registered User
I will have to agree 100% with leshkin !!!! The map of the tuner will determine how the engine will work, there are a whole lot more parameters to adjust ..... not just boost!!!

As I've said and before the tuner will determine - with a solid error-free map for the ECU - how the engine will work correctly....and for how long it will continue to do so.........
 

fab_giglio

Registered User
I will have to agree 100% with leshkin !!!! The map of the tuner will determine how the engine will work, there are a whole lot more parameters to adjust ..... not just boost!!!

As I've said and before the tuner will determine - with a solid error-free map for the ECU - how the engine will work correctly....and for how long it will continue to do so.........

No worries, thank you guys.
The car is all done and it sounds insane! Its not as fast as I thought it would be but I love hearing the turbo spooling and the noise it makes when I let go of the gas pedal.
This week I will take it to the place and change the exhaust to a 3" full decat because at the moment I have a 2 1/4 " and the mechanic said its restricting a bit and after all this is done I will put on a rolling road and get the reading of my car.
 
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