Major Engine Damage on Audi A3 - How can this happen?

[audi@auz]

Hi All

My wife drives 2008 Audi A3 2.0 TDi which we bought 8 months ago. It had Glow Plug Indication on Tuesday, 20th May. She noticed and drove at the most 10kms with that to bring it home but it stopped on the road. We had to get it towed away to the European cars mechanic and he looked at it. He called me and told that its a big damage:

1. Its high pressure fuel pump is broken
2. Its Turbo Charger is damaged
3. Its Fuel Filter is damaged.

I was totally shocked to know this kind of big damage on the car which we bought only 8 months ago with not even single issue. How can a normal driving car can have such a huge damage... and its driven only 65000kms.

I have had many Japanese cars like Honda and Toyota which I drove for upto 300,000 kms without any engine issue. This is for the first time, we bought Audi and feeling miserable.

Any suggestions and help would be highly appreciated.
Thanks

 

[S3 TDI]

Sounds like your Euro Mechanic is trying to shaft you for allot of $$$$$$ . I would ask him for a detailed report of what's wrong with each component and then post it up here so we can tell you if he's genuine or if he is trying to rip you off. A glow plug failure will only lead to the engine stopping. I don't see how your fuel pump and turbo can be affected by a glow plug failure.

I could be totally wrong but to me it sounds a bit fishy.

Take it to another mechanic and get their opinion . DON'T let your mechanic start repairing it withouth your consent.

 

[Rhyso]

Glow plug lamp is used for other warnings

What version is it? Is it the 140 or 170??

The 140 suffer from weak turbo chargers. Did your wife notice any smoke coming out of the back prior to breakdown?

The 170 suffered with DPF and injector problems on the PD engine

 

[desertstorm]

Get a second opinion from an good independent mechanic. How can the turbo and the high pressure fuel pump both have failed.If you had done something daft like filling it with petrol then it would possibly need a new fuel pump and fuel filter but not a turbo. If it had oil pressure issues this would possibly have damaged the turbo but not the fuel pump. I can't think of any one failure that would require changing both the turbo and the fuel pump.

Karl.

 

[S3 TDI]

i agree get a second opinion. Even with a DPF problem the turbo and fuel pump should not be affected that much. How did the engine fail. Did it blow smoke and then stop, did it shudder and then sieze, were there any grinding or whining noises ??

 

[Sevv]

if you are in Australia... try either BWA Autos 7 hills, Exotic Cars - North Parramatta , Ramspeed - 7 hills, OR the mechanic i used Euro Automotive in Girraween HOWEVER this guy does take time be warned but he will do a good job and be honest with you

 

[audi@auz]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
I live in Brisbane..... if you know any honest mechanic in Brisbane please let me know.
This mechanic came back last night sending this email:
"
the following parts needs your car:

2.0L TDI ,engine code: BMN


1 Turbo: parts number : 3-5 w.days 2800$ in Australia
1 Pd fuel injector : 1100$ in overseas + ship
1 Dpf diesel cat : 790 $ in overseas + ship

couple of seals - app 100$

labour -app 800-900 $

Battery 152$ -fitted

I haven't got an answer from Audi Brisbane about injector and filter yet. I've already asked wreckers in Brisbane, they don't have this type of car at the moment. The parts, what are coming from overseas, waiting time is minimum 2 weeks.

Please let me know about your decision.

The costs until now (battery + my labour) is $500.
"

Not sure what to do.... I am thinking to get it towed away from there and checked by other mechanic.... but if the damage is that much, its gonna keep adding to the cost.....
What do u suggest?

 

[audi@auz]

The worst part is I don't know what has happened and what caused it.......
My wife reconfirmed that she did not put any other fuel even accidentally apart from Diesel.
She also reconfirmed that there was no other indication on the dashboard...apart from glow plug lamp indication and she did not drive more than 10kms on that and the car stopped.
I believe it is a smart car and it will go in limp mode or stop if there is possibility of any major damage or issue but it did not do...
Its a mystery for me.
How do I find whether it is 140 or 170? Is it on the engine,,,, or on any paper work?

 

[audi@auz]

I am told by the mechanic that it is 170

The mechanic also mentioned that he sent the computer software reports to some mechanics in Europe and all came back with a suggestion to remove DPF...
Is it good idea to remove DPF in Australia?
He said it will cost us $700 less if we choose to delete the dpf.

 

[Rhyso]

If its injector failure then (in the UK at least) these were replaced free of charge as part of an official recall. I would suggest contacting Audi Austrailia and seeing if there is a recall for yours. They were (are) a very well known issues on the 170's

 

[audi@auz]

Awesome! Thanks Rhyso... I called Audi Customer Service in Australia and they confirmed that there was a recall on this car for fuel injectors but it was claimed in August 2013. I mentioned that then it should be covered in warranty because if these were replaced less than a year ago, and failed. They asked me to take the car to nearest Audi Dealer for inspection and they will let us know.
I booked with the local dealer on Thursday to have a look at it.

Do you know if they will cover if the injectors damage which were replaced less than a year ago. Also, do you think if they will fix / replace the Turbo Charger, particulate filter and any other associated damage as well which could have been caused by injectors issue?

 

[max69vk]

When I had my injector recall done on my PD170 they screwed it up so badly they ended replacing (& paying for)... New injectors, complete new cylinder head inc cams etc, new turbo, new fuel filter, new air filter, new DPF sensors, complete fuel system flush.

 

[Sevv]

all the parts you mention shouldn't be 2.5k honestly... i bought rs4 injector for my a3 that was 325$ lol.. 1100 for injectors what kinda of BS is that!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sevv]

check awesome gti in the UK talk to mark they can send you oem parts for half the price and if you order now youll get the parts next week i would suggest just doing that and getting the parts...

price difference on an S3 k04 in australia 3500 in the UK £800

 

[max69vk]

£1100 for the injectors is a good price, they were nearly £500 a piece at one time.

 

[audi@auz]

Thanks for sharing your experience, how would I argue to them that the fault which appeared and caused the damage to engine is due to the injectors which were replaced 8 mths ago.
I am not an Audi expert so its very hard for me though I will wait for Dealer to inspect and give me a report what they believe is the issue.

 

[Sevv]

£1100 for the injectors is a good price, they were nearly £500 a piece at one time.

have a look at the link this is how cheap the injectors were albeit its for 2 different cars and not TDI but logically speaking TDi injectors should be more expensive then that im pretty sure of it tbh..Fueling


i would ask him for a print out of the ECU readings and get post the fault codes here and we will all help you for sure...

i think it wouldn't hurt though to ask awesomegti for a price.. you never know...

 

[audi@auz]

for last three days, I am asking this mechanic to provide me a detailed report on his findings about the car but he hasn't sent anything yet though he promises everyday that he will. Last night he sent me an invoice for 6 hours investigation.. I asked him again that to send me the detailed report on his findings and breakdown of his hours, he seems to be not responsive. He has got my car there with him which I arranged to be picked tomorrow morning through tow truck....
do you think he can do anything with the car or what if he doesn't provide me the report....

 

[audi@auz]

After my repetitive follow up, I received the following letter / response from the mechanic:

""""
I appreciate your concern in regards to my labour that was charged to you for work on your vehicle; Audi A3 2.0 TDI Registration no: 415TET
I believe the amount I have charged is more than fair in regards to the amount of work carried out on your vehicle.
As you know I started on your vehicle last week on Thursday the 22nd of May 2014 at Oliver st Kedron on the side the road. It took me an hour of driving to get to you and half an hour of diagnostics. At this point I had not charged you anything for my time. I had advised you to have the car towed to my premises in Cleveland.
When your car arrived on Saturday morning at 9:30am I immediately started work on it.
The first thing I started on was checking the fuel system for working order. I checked the low pressure pump, the tandem pump on the engine and then I ran a complete diagnosis of the fuel system with my scan tool.
After I had checked this I diagnosed the engine for issues, a misfire in cylinder 3 was found, and this was due to the fuel correction data being too high.
My next move was to find the problem causing this issue.
The high fuel correction data may be caused by issues with the turbo charger or the diesel particulate filter.
I checked the parts by removing the DPF off the back of the turbo charger housing.
It was found that the DPF was full of diesel, which it should not be. In my experience when this is found it means the turbo charger is faulty. This is also confirmed from the diagnosis scanner when there is a fault from the Airflow metre and map sensor which is present in your car.
I also replaced the battery in your car at my cost of $152.00 due to the old one being drained beyond repair due to constant re start of the vehicle.
After I had completed my work, you contacted me and I advised you of the issues present and a quote to repair, along with the outstanding amount due to the above work completed. You then told me to reassemble the car and you would take it to Audi. I did this on Tuesday.
The total hours worked on your vehicle including Thursday, Saturday and Tuesday was 10 hours. My hourly rate is $50p/hr +GST. My rate including the new battery comes to a total of $497.20 inc GST. I have been fair in regards to the amount of hours charged to you as show of goodwill, as it can be frustrating and expensive when these problems occur.

In response to your recent email, I apologise for not contacting you sooner as I have been very busy at work. I cannot send you the data sheet of your vehicle as I did not save it, as I deemed it unnecessary. As a secondary option I would have sent the data from your ECU to Europe for analysis, however you did not want to complete the ongoing work with me.

I would appreciate your payment as soon as possible, I was very prompt when you first asked me to come inspect your car, even though it wasn’t under normal working circumstances or during normal business hours. I am out of pocket in expenses and I still allowed you to take delivery of your vehicle.
I await your payment and response. Thankyou
""""

 

[audi@auz]

I have been going in circles with these mechanics here in Brisbane.... Man!!! Haven't thought that this 4 years old car which has done only 70,000 kms driven by only two ladies and maintained well will give so much grief.

I took the car to Audi Dealer in anticipation that they will check the Fuel Injectors and fix the problem since there was a recall active on this. I booked the car and once the car was there, I got the call from Audi saying that recall was redeemed by previous owner 10 months ago and they replaced the fuel injectors. So then I mentioned if there is a problem with fuel injectors after 10 months of replacement then it is a warranty issue. They said they can only say so after the full diagnosis.

They investigated the car and said: the fuel system is contaminated. How could this happen? The tandem pump had a leakage which contaminated the fuel and caused damage to the diesel fuel system. They said, they have to replace both fuel pressure pump and tandem pump and all together it will cost it $2600 and then only after that they can further investigate it.

I paid $2600 and they replaced the pumps. Then they called me saying the DPF is totally blocked and it can't be regenerated. They have to replace it further which will cost $6900. Unless that is replaced, they can't say anything. I was totally shattered knowing that I have already spent $3300 so far and another $6900.... OMG... more than $10k expense and still don't know where its gonna take us. I bought $10k car (Japanese - Toyota Camry) and ran 250,000 Kms in 9 years before I sold it for $2000, never had any issue. It brought a very serious doubt in my mind that whether Audi is good enough car?

I can't believe, if a tandem pump had a leak... its a smart car, should have some warning or something to prevent the further damage. Its just crazy...........

Another mechanic promised me that they can do the DPF for much cheaper price and I got the car towed to that mechanic. And now that mechanic is saying the car wouldn't start at all. Audi said the engine was cranking when they despatched the car. We are totally fu#$@ked... buying this car.

Don't know what to do......

 

[wuta3]

Sounds rough, can't help you but hope you get it sorted. It is **** when these things happen and it's $$$ down the drain. You might have just bought a lemon though.

 

[pluves1]

Ouch.

This is the problem when you have a major issue like this and they have to fault find. Jumping from one garage to another won't really be helping matters either.

Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Brodster]

The tandem fuel pump has been a known problem for years and you dont have to change the main pump either as you just flush the system out and change the fuel filter which is on the opposite side to the tandem fuel pump. Its about £150 for tandem fuel pump here. The internals are prone to failing allowing oil and fuel to come together and normally get kangaroo fuel as the fuel filter gets blocked with oil......tandem fuel pump change and fuel filter change and away you go. Simple job.

 

[BennyG_UK]

And then just get rid of the DPF!

If its not even cranking now I bet the battery is dead again since its not been driven or run. Surely though Audi could have run the car without exhaust to ensure there aint no further problems if the DPF is blocked..

 

[audi@auz]

Thanks Brodster for your reply. I assume you are in Scottland or England. How much would it cost to get a new DPF if I have to get one despatched from there to Australia? Its Audi A3 2.0 TDi 2008, Engine: BMN
Would you be able to help?

 

[audi@auz]

Thanks Benny. The engine is cranking but not starting. The Audi Dealers have disconnected the EGR Pipe.

The mechanic now says that its going to cost more than $3k in replacing the DPF.

He also mentioned that if I can source it cheaper from overseas then he can replace it and charge for labour only.

Any suggestions? Thanks mate!

 

[BennyG_UK]

Why not look into doing a DPF delete? Avoid having the problem in future.

What I would ask the mechanic to do is remove the exhaust and see if the engine fires up. If it doesn't you know youve got more of a problem than just the DPF.

 

[BennyG_UK]

Have a chat with darkside developments here in the UK they do a DPF delete pipe, and I know they ship all over the world (mainly turbos to USA!) Ive used them a few times myself.

Heres what I think you need (check your engine code)

Darkside DPF Delete Downpipe FOR 2 0 TDI 16V PD170 PPD170 CR140 AND CR170 | eBay

but like I said remove exhaust first and verify car runs otherwise your just wasting more money

 

[warren_S5]

Trying to diagnose unseen is almost impossible, but feel your pain.

My brother in law bought a 170 diesel A3 2008 a few years back and it was nothing but trouble. Injectors, loom, DPF all caused ongoing issues and in the end they traded it in for a Mini Cooper S. I begged him to book a full AA/RAC inspection before buying it but in order to save himself £130 in the short term he ended up with bills way in excess of that in the end. Some of these cars seem fine, others seem hit and miss depending on how they are driven & maintained over their lifespan etc.

Personally I think you are always best to get a well know VAG specialist to look at cars with this potential level of costs as whilst it may be inconvenient you're far more likely to get a clear picture rather than 'fix by guesswork / someone else broke it who last touched it' mentality.

Don't know what to suggest given where you are now, just find the best independent you can and keep your fingers tightly crossed. This is not a true representation of all cars, just one that's not been loved enough during it's life by the sound of it. Good luck.

 

[audi@auz]

Thanks Guys!
I have checked about DPF Delete in Australia and I came to know that its illegal here. Only off road cars can have no DPF.

Also made some progress...
Mechanic got the car started, we bought the DPF off market and getting it replaced today.
Surprisingly mechanic mentioned that Audi Dealer when they replaced the fuel pump and tandem pump and flushed the entire system, they should have replaced the fuel filter which they didn't so he had to change the fuel filter.

Also, he mentioned to get 12 months warranty on DPF he need to change both engine oil and filter both for $200.
We this is getting dragged for long and now my whole goal is to get it fixed asap and get it on the road.