Lubricants - To upgrade or not?

[Arcam]

I did an oil and filter change today on my S3 and I used Shell Helix Ultra Extra (5w-30) which meets the long life spec etc, on my previous track/daily drivers I used uprated engine, transmission, diff and brake fluids, does anyone have suggestions for improving on the OEM fluids for those roles (I already have the brake fluid angle covered)?

I used 5.75 inc filter on the engine oil change BTW, but does anyone have the correct filling capacities (engine, diffs and gearbox) as Audi saw fit to not include that info in the handbook!

Does anyone have the refill procedure and oil grade/type (Pentosin FFL4 by any chance?) for the DSG unit?

BBK next job

 

[Arcam]

Wow, no one has any thoughts on this subject, I am a little surprised.

 

[veeeight]

My school of thought is to stick with 504 00 507 00 and change often, rather than increase spec.

 

[Arcam]

I like the idea of both, I used do a lot of track days and would like to get back into them and to protect everything better at the higher temps for sustained periods, and before you state I should be doing cool down laps I am very mechanically sympathetic and I do carry them out, but I don't want to be limited by lubricants, hence raising this discussion

 

[veeeight]

If you are genuinely going to be tracking the car all day, as opposed to just a few hours, then changing to 5W-40 would benefit, but still 504 00 507 00

 

[plasma]

Seeing that you have a petrol engine (S3) I think you may be better off with 505 01 spec oil.

 

[desertstorm]

I wouldn't put anything other than the genuine VAG supplied oil in the DSG gearbox. They are very fickle things and like clean oil at the correct viscosity / grade.

 

[plasma]

I wouldn't put anything other than the genuine VAG supplied oil in the DSG gearbox. They are very fickle things and like clean oil at the correct viscosity / grade.

You do realise that VAG don't actually make their own oil? They get external suppliers like Castrol or Mobil 1 and re-brand it as 'VAG Approved oil.' Some oils such as Redline make better gearbox oil than OEM stuff

 

[Gazwould]

If you are genuinely going to be tracking the car all day, as opposed to just a few hours, then changing to 5W-40 would benefit, but still 504 00 507 00

Seeing that you have a petrol engine (S3) I think you may be better off with 505 01 spec oil.

504.00 507.00 is 5w30

505.01 5w40 is a downgrade against 504.00 507.00

Better oils are ester's which cost around £55 - £80 for 5L.

 

[plasma]

504.00 507.00 is 5w30

505.01 5w40 is a downgrade against 504.00 507.00

Better oils are ester's which cost around £55 - £80 for 5L.

What evidence do you have to show that the 507 spec is an upgrade to the 505 01, besides the obvious clue in the numbering system? The 504/507.00 has less additives compared to the 505.01. The key difference is that the 504/507.00 has low SAPs content to protect the DPF.

 

[Gazwould]

The 504/ 507 has a higher concentration of additive package.

Synthetic Base stock group and additive package is what gives a oil it's quality.

504 /507 has both a higher base stock and higher overall additive package.

Where do you get your misinformation from ?

 

[plasma]

The 504/ 507 has a higher concentration of additive package.

Synthetic Base stock group and additive package is what gives a oil it's quality.

504 /507 has both a higher base stock and higher overall additive package.

Where do you get your misinformation from ?

You have not referenced as to where you have obtained your information from to claim that the 507.00 has more additives than the 505.01?

The 507.00 has LESS additives and therefore produces a lower SAPs number. Here, look at this:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=243437

"Additive treat levels are being reduced to minimize exhaust emissions & improve emissions systems compatibility..."

 

[Gazwould]

Yes the additive package of the 504 507 is reduced of certain anti wear metals that clog DPF's.


They make up and exceed by a higher quality base stock and higher overall additive package , ta da .

 

[Arcam]

Interesting comments, OEM is not always best and I would generally treat it as a good starting point. On my GT-Rs I used Motul 5W50 Sport and Willall in the dual clutch transmission, both far superior to OEM. It is like the old saying about "nobody gets fired for buying IBM" hence IMHO the approach OEM is the best.

I have sold my S3 now and have just taken delivery of a new RS4 so the oil debate continues

 

[pauly69]

Don't get me started on IBM!

 

[desertstorm]

You do realise that VAG don't actually make their own oil? They get external suppliers like Castrol or Mobil 1 and re-brand it as 'VAG Approved oil.' Some oils such as Redline make better gearbox oil than OEM stuff

I do realise that, it's the same as own brand supermarket stuff, Tesco don't make Tomato soup. They get somebody else to do it and then put their label on it. But a lot of the fluids that VAG sell for gearboxes etc are specified by the original gearbox manufacturer such as ZF and Getrag as well as VAG themselves and are not identical to what you can buy off the shelf. A DSG gearbox is a very complex piece of kit and the oil thats in it is an integral part of the design.
I don't eat Tesco Home brand tomato soup as I prefer Heinz it tastes nicer. They both look quite similar and similar ingredients but I can tell the difference.
I recently changed the gearbox oil in my car, I spent a long lime surfing the net and even did some basic tests etc in the end I went with the OE oil from the dealers. I never found any threads that said the gearbox oil was changed and OE stuff used and the gearbox was worse, sometimes it's no better as there is a fault in the box.
There are plenty of threads where people have used a similar oil that supposedly meets the spec and it had made the changes worse than with the original oil. Granted it's more expensive but have you seen the cost of a mechatronic unit or a second hand DSG box.

Karl.

 

[desertstorm]

You have not referenced as to where you have obtained your information from to claim that the 507.00 has more additives than the 505.01?

The 507.00 has LESS additives and therefore produces a lower SAPs number. Here, look at this:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=243437

"Additive treat levels are being reduced to minimize exhaust emissions & improve emissions systems compatibility..."

Yes manufacturers are reducing the levels of sulfated ash and phosphorus in oils to improve the performance of DPF systems and reduce the impact of phosphorous and sulfur on catalytic convertors, the reason these existed in oils was as part of the EP additives. To maintain the EP protection and indeed improve upon it they just used different additives that don't contain phosphorous or sulfur. This makes the oil more complex and more expensive to manufacture but the relative performance of a 507.00 oil over a 505.01 is much better.

http://www.lubrizol.com/apps/relperftool/pc.html

 

[veeeight]

http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-742-vw-engine-oil.aspx