LPFP upgrade?

isimpoi

Newbie
So looking into the LPFP for the S3's that some tuners recommend when going for the TTE420 route.

Options I've seen are:
APR LPFP system
DeatschWerks DW65v High-Flow Fuel Pump
RS3/TTRS Fuel Pump

I know how APR's system works but lot more expensive than the other two.

I believe the DeatschWerks DW65v is a case of removing pump inside unit and replacing with that one

The RS3/TTRS pump I believe is a straight swap over (entire unit) but I've heard a few people talking about controllers that go along with them? Can anyone shed some light on that?
 

RedDejavu

Registered User
TTRS pump + PM3 controller :). This is what I just bought. Similar price however most OEM solution.
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
I have no experience of the APR system,but would go for an RS pump if it came to it....

The RS pump may require the correct controller to run it,as the S3 PWM controller can over heat if the pump duty cycle isn't correctly managed.

The DW65v is aimed at the previous model S3,without a PWM controller,so i don't have any experience of that either.

Another alternative is the USP Motorsports auxiliary pump system which runs in tandem with the in-tank pump and is triggered to add fuel flow as the boost comes in.
This has worked well for me for a few years now,and has worked on my car to over 600bhp.

Some tuners like Rick @ Unicorn can map and run the RS pump for you,as can Storm Developments.

This page may help...

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...s3-progress-thread.215135/page-8#post-2648238
 
Last edited:

isimpoi

Newbie
I'm running APR software and likely to stick with them so I assume I could still go for the TTRS/RS3 pump with controller?

My mistake about the DW65v one, I just seen it under Audi S3 8P AWD on AwesomeGTI's site and assumed it would be a straight swap
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
I'm running APR software and likely to stick with them so I assume I could still go for the TTRS/RS3 pump with controller?

My mistake about the DW65v one, I just seen it under Audi S3 8P AWD on AwesomeGTI's site and assumed it would be a straight swap

APR's solution is basically a piggy back controller and in-line pump,triggered differently,but not entirely unlike USP's system,which is boost triggered.
You could always ask them about the RS pump and their software,but be prepared for "No".
 

isimpoi

Newbie
yea thinking that may happen annoyingly :/ that's why ideally I'd like to find a drop in one that doesn't require much adjustments or additional controllers. As I know I won't be pursuing over 440bhp i.e. no forging, gearbox upgrades etc. I'll be happy with anything 400 or above.

Plus the APR system is twice if not three times as expensive as other solutions. Heard a couple people not needing the LPFP for the TTE420 but better safe than sorry I'd of thought

Ecotune haven't provided the best customer service from my experiences so far, haven't bothered to phone me back or contact me about my gearbox queries which is annoying. You'd think giving someone over £1000 of your hard earned cash they could at least respond to a simple email or call back
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
Indeed.
A lot of tuners seem to think poor service is OK.

The stock pump "may" be OK up to around 440bhp,but equally may start to run short of flow at peak torque etc.
Mine was OK till around 440bhp,but had definitely started to lean out by then,and the USP system was bought after that.

It is a drop-in replacement,but does require some fitting etc.
This is the guide....
http://www.uspmotorsports.com/downloads/FSI.Aux.FuelPump.Instru.pdf
 

isimpoi

Newbie
Yea sadly they do.

That's what I'm thinking, don't want the fuel leaning out. That being said the car will purely be day to day and the odd spirited drive or 1/4 mile driven never tracked so heard a few people talking about pick up on cornering starvation which won't be a major problem for me. Just looked at the USP one and the guide you kindly attached and looks a lot more difficult to install over the DW65v one.

Think I'll need to find out more info on the DeatschWerks one and see how it is over standard. Also look into if people are requiring the additional controller with them as ideally I'd like to avoid needing that.
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
Yea sadly they do.

That's what I'm thinking, don't want the fuel leaning out. That being said the car will purely be day to day and the odd spirited drive or 1/4 mile driven never tracked so heard a few people talking about pick up on cornering starvation which won't be a major problem for me. Just looked at the USP one and the guide you kindly attached and looks a lot more difficult to install over the DW65v one.

Think I'll need to find out more info on the DeatschWerks one and see how it is over standard. Also look into if people are requiring the additional controller with them as ideally I'd like to avoid needing that.

I am happy to be wrong on this,but I don't think the DW pump is for use with a PWM controller.
 

isimpoi

Newbie
I am happy to be wrong on this,but I don't think the DW pump is for use with a PWM controller.
I've been doing heaps of digging around but you could be right on that. Can't seem to find anyone running one on an 8P S3 period, let alone with or without controller. Seen a couple golf GTi's mk6 I believe using them with no controller but in all honesty I have no knowledge on their fueling set ups vs the S3 8p's. With it being FWD I believe it's slightly different but again no info on that.

From what I'm reading in terms of fitting etc it says it will use the OEM pickup's and OEM wiring etc and simply is a drop in but I'd rather get confirmation so may message them directly to find out more

Surely there must be a simple drop in replacement that will work suitably with standard controller. See people dropping Walbro pumps, AEM and all that to replace standard one's just slightly higher flow
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
I've been doing heaps of digging around but you could be right on that. Can't seem to find anyone running one on an 8P S3 period, let alone with or without controller. Seen a couple golf GTi's mk6 I believe using them with no controller but in all honesty I have no knowledge on their fueling set ups vs the S3 8p's. With it being FWD I believe it's slightly different but again no info on that.

From what I'm reading in terms of fitting etc it says it will use the OEM pickup's and OEM wiring etc and simply is a drop in but I'd rather get confirmation so may message them directly to find out more

Surely there must be a simple drop in replacement that will work suitably with standard controller. See people dropping Walbro pumps, AEM and all that to replace standard one's just slightly higher flow

The point is that none of those are designed to work with a PWM controller system such as our cars run.

Those pumps works by supplying flow continuously to a fuel rail,with a return rail to the tank,whereas the PWM system is governed by LP rail pressure and the pump duty cycle altered to maintain a relatively constant pressure.

Contacting them to find out if it will run with a PWM controller,or if they know of anyone using it in this way would be a good start,but aside from the RS pump,I'm not aware of a simple drop-in solution.
 

isimpoi

Newbie
Yea contacted them concerning the PWM so will wait and see. Understand where your coming from. The S3 is a lot more complex compared to my old Corsa SRi turbo, got a selection of about 20 odd different fuel pumps for it and pretty much all in-tank solutions.

Tbh I could always upgrade to the TTE420 and not opt for the LPFP and get it at a later stage if needed since I won't be running a WMI kit so chances are I'll be seeing figures of between 390-420 maybe 430 at a push
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
Yea contacted them concerning the PWM so will wait and see. Understand where your coming from. The S3 is a lot more complex compared to my old Corsa SRi turbo, got a selection of about 20 odd different fuel pumps for it and pretty much all in-tank solutions.

Tbh I could always upgrade to the TTE420 and not opt for the LPFP and get it at a later stage if needed since I won't be running a WMI kit so chances are I'll be seeing figures of between 390-420 maybe 430 at a push

Agreed.....one common setup for my old Cosworths was a twin Bosch 044 pump system with a lift pump and swirl pot plus the second pump for the fuel rail.
Simples.

This car,as you say,is not so easy.....as you know,I use the USP aux pump plus an 8 injector system to get sufficient fuelling,and it wasn't a simple solution.
Getting enough for 420-440bhp is easier,but you may require an RS pump.
 

isimpoi

Newbie
Agreed.....one common setup for my old Cosworths was a twin Bosch 044 pump system with a lift pump and swirl pot plus the second pump for the fuel rail.
Simples.

This car,as you say,is not so easy.....as you know,I use the USP aux pump plus an 8 injector system to get sufficient fuelling,and it wasn't a simple solution.
Getting enough for 420-440bhp is easier,but you may require an RS pump.
Is this the sort of kit you have:
http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi-...age-3-Auxiliary-Low-Pressure-Fuel-System.html

That is more in my price range if I'm honest and wouldn't mind that system IF it worked alongside my APR software. Looks like a good kit and not overly difficult to install after looking at the install guide again
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
Is this the sort of kit you have:
http://www.uspmotorsports.com/Audi-...age-3-Auxiliary-Low-Pressure-Fuel-System.html

That is more in my price range if I'm honest and wouldn't mind that system IF it worked alongside my APR software. Looks like a good kit and not overly difficult to install after looking at the install guide again

Yes.

APR will likely push to have you install their own system,and will say that this is less sophisticated(which in a sense it is) less this and that,but the fact is that it works,reliably,on a car more powerful than any S3 they have.
 

isimpoi

Newbie
Yes.

APR will likely push to have you install their own system,and will say that this is less sophisticated(which in a sense it is) less this and that,but the fact is that it works,reliably,on a car more powerful than any S3 they have.

haha very likely. Kind of annoyed by with Ecotune/APR tbh, admittedly their stage 2+ software/ gearbox software is great, car pulls amazingly but I only chose them due to
A) Dealers in Scotland
B) I was under the impression I could change between maps when I wanted but found out that was actually false but was never informed until after the map was on the car
C) Offered 20% discount at the time
D) Heard good things about EcoTune but from my experience I've found them to simply not show much interest in your car just want to throw the map on, get money from you and let you be on your way.

But now i'm with them there would be no point changing as they will either update the software for free or an £80 for upgrade fee. Next car I'll likely try Unicorn Motor Developments or R-Tech or the more custom tailored software over Revo, APR etc
 

Smirky

Registered User
Did amd fit your add on Alex ?
 

Smirky

Registered User
Yes....I don't think Steve enjoyed it much,with a few skinned fingers,but the work has held up well.
don't think he enjoyed my pick up pipe either
 

isimpoi

Newbie
So got a reply from the company and this is what Chris at DeatschWerks DeatschWerks said:

There was some bleed over from the 1.8T models to the 2.0TFSI models of the 65v assembly. With your model year (2011), your fuel pump assembly could be either the 65v design pump or it could be the next generation pump assembly where the 65v is not applicable.

So by the sounds of it the pump may not even fit the fuel pump assembly on the newer models S3 so maybe the assembly was updated? Either way he didn't really address the problem with the PWM overheating.
 

S3Alex

Rarely neutral
Gold Supporter
So got a reply from the company and this is what Chris at DeatschWerks DeatschWerks said:

There was some bleed over from the 1.8T models to the 2.0TFSI models of the 65v assembly. With your model year (2011), your fuel pump assembly could be either the 65v design pump or it could be the next generation pump assembly where the 65v is not applicable.

So by the sounds of it the pump may not even fit the fuel pump assembly on the newer models S3 so maybe the assembly was updated? Either way he didn't really address the problem with the PWM overheating.

To be fair,their product is aimed really at the 1.8T,and I expect they know nothing about the PWM controller.
Also,to the best of my knowledge the pump design on the 8P has always looked different to the 8L,but of course I don't know the internal design.
 

Kuvi-S3

Registered User
Bump for an old thread.

Did anyone ever get feedback on the DW65v pump working with the PWM controller?
 
Top