Launch Control delay

[Charlie23]

Hi guys been out this evening haveing some fun with few my mates and tried Lauch Control in my S3 DSG for the first time and I wasnt overly impressed.

Seemed like I had a 1 - 1.1/2 second delay before the car went anywhere?

Is this correct? And can it be mapped out or anything?

Cheers

 

[-Ju-]

I've not tried it since the days of my A3 3.2 but it was the same back then. It does seem like an eternity once the pedal is released but in reality isn't.
Imo it's just a gimmick anyway and not any everyday driving tool......mind you I don't use the paddles either so not the beat person to judge lol

 

[nluk100]

Turning off ESP fully may help (hold the ESP button in for longer)

 

[Charlie23]

Tried that mate still the same.

I done abit of reading last night on different Forums etc and I'm lead to believe there is a 1/0.5 second delay in the Launch?

If this is correct then is there away of getting around it? Mapping etc?

Cheers

 

[Daveyonthemove]

Looks like a few companies can map the DSG box, here is one from a quick Google search:
https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/dsg-ecu-remapping/

 

[Charlie23]

Looks good thanks for that, I been reading up about the R-Tech DSG maps also think this is where im going to have to go. Stage 1 Engine & then DSG map.

Looking at the info on Darkside the gearbox is limited -

Most DSG Gearboxes have a set torque limit of 360nm (265ft/lbs) meaning tuned cars will be limited to this figure even if the engine is wanting to produce more. We can increase this torque limit to 500nm (368ft/lbs) or in some cases remove it completely.

SO is that kind of saying anything pushing over 368fl/lbs torque Engine wise is wasted? As stage 2+ produces more torque than that?

 

[paddy]

I agree with Ju the launch control is basically just a gimmick, sort of worked on the 3.2 but doesnt really work with a turbo. I cant beat even a 2.0 focus off the line because he will be 1.5 seconds down the road before i even move...lol

APR do an upgrade to the box, this might help Quote

All too often TCU upgrades are sold as a solution to "torque limiters" in which many companies charge extra to raise. While some companies may have trouble with torque interventions from the transmission, even at stage I power and torque levels, APR ECU upgrades do not require a TCU upgrade to meet advertised peak torque levels. APR does not charge extra to "raise the limits." Raising the limits does not increase performance and does not increase the transmission’s ability to hold more torque. The maximum torque limiters are simply removed, allowing customers unrestricted operation. In the event torque is limited by the factory clutches, upgraded units may be installed and torque may be increased without TCU intervention.

http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/tcu_upgrade_dq250_exx_fxx.html

This is the route i will take now but i am waiting for one of their software discount months

A point which is just my opinion. The launch control bangs a huge amount of power through the clutches and drive train from zero, probably way to much by stg1 let alone stg2
This is why audi put a torque limit on the box. its there for a reason which is longevity ..........

 

[Charlie23]

Looks good mate, can only agree on all of that.

They mention the delay here - The end user will notice launches now occur more rapidly with less delay between releasing the brake and forward momentum.

So im glad its not just me.

£598 is quite abit of money to spend for the sake of the odd Launch now and then.

Im going to contact R-Tech as they do DSG re-maps and im sure probably the same as APR for a 1/4 of the price, BUT im taking abit of a guess here.

Or if someone has had a R-Tech map come forward?

 

[paddy]

Agree its a lot which is why i am waiting for their regular discounts but you are getting a lot more than just launch with much faster changes and better change spacing and times.

 

[leshkin]

A good TCU map is a bit more than just raising the torque limit. It also should be increasing plate clamping pressure as well as adjusts shift points for full auto modes as well as removes nanny upshifts in manual. Worth speaking to the person providing the TCU map to confirm exactly what is going into the upgrade.

 

[Charlie23]

I see Leshkin you have R-Tech TCU map. what's it like?

DO you get the full potential with the power you are running etc?

 

[paddy]

Agree, i only recommended APR because their DSG software is programed in conjunction with their ECU upgrades which i have. I dont know how well it works with other ECU maps.

 

[leshkin]

I see Leshkin you have R-Tech TCU map. what's it like?

DO you get the full potential with the power you are running etc?

I prefer it to stock or my old DSG map, that's for sure... Niki sets the shift points on D a little too high for my liking, so takes some time to adjust to it, but in all honesty, ever since he removed the auto up-shifts in manual mode, I've been using that 95% of the time as it's so much more engaging. Only flip to D if I'm cruising on the motorway for long periods or stuck in stop/go traffic for extended periods. Launches are spot-on with it - the launch engine speed has been increased to 4k rpm, so this solves the turbo lag issue, and I think he introduced a small amount of slip into the launch. This feels a lot nicer on the rest of the drivetrain. It doesn't feel like it just drops the clutch, but a more gradual initial onset of torque and acceleration. I don't experience any delay with launches... Not sure if it's down to the way I drop the brake, but it feels good.

 

[Charlie23]

Sound perfect fair play and im going to go the R-Tech route as I have always gone APR but fancy a change. Plus R-Tech seem to tailor the maps to your/car witch feels abit more personal and worth the £££.

Can your shift points in D be lowered and keep the rest the same? and NO delay in Launch? Foot off and away you go?

 

[leshkin]

Sound perfect fair play and im going to go the R-Tech route as I have always gone APR but fancy a change. Plus R-Tech seem to tailor the maps to your/car witch feels abit more personal and worth the £££.

Can your shift points in D be lowered and keep the rest the same? and NO delay in Launch? Foot off and away you go?

Yes, speak to Niki about what you want from the DSG map and he can tweak it to suit.

I haven't noticed any delay in launching, but then I don't use that feature often.

 

[Charlie23]

Will book my self in with R-Tech and get it all done. Thanks mate

Same im not looking to Launch it every 5 minutes but its something that I want to work correctly when I need it, not look a fool and play catch up haha.

 

[paddy]

Sounds good Lesh, i hated the loud clang from the drive train when you let the brake off on the 3.2. It sounded like every UJ in the line was banging metal on metal from prop shaft to drive shaft. the S3 just bogs down but as you say in stock set up its off turbo on launch anyway or as a good as.

 

[Kaine19]

I still find there is a delay. I am stage 2+ with dsg map from rtech. Infact, ill check again on the way home from work. I find just revving it and going rather than sitting on the launch much better. I havent noitced any difference in the shifts using D. I use this 90% of the time (daily car)

 

[Kaine19]

Yep. Still a slight delay. Managed a personal best of 3.7 to 60 though tonight. How accurate the torque app is though, i dont know


On a sep note my launch decided to rev to about 4/4.5k easily we're as normally sits at 3.5k...

First one i did, set of with a massive judder and loss of power, put it into D and was fine.

Tried again, less revs and worked.

So thought id try with higher revs again and it did the same. Massive judder, loss of power and dashboard lights.

Did an scan on obd11 and no fault codes, also it boosting fine as well no problems afterwards. Seems like it just hated being launched over 4k

 

[paddy]

I dont know for sure but my gut feeling is if it launches quicker in D1 then its dragging the clutches ie not in launch control. Launch control requires it to be in Sport with apr off. I think launching in drive is probably a great way to wreck the box or at least the clutches ?. this i think is why you have a load of judder and engine lights flashing so be careful..

 

[Kaine19]

I may of explained poor. I lauched in the usual way. In Sport. I put it into D afterwards to drive normal

 

[nluk100]

APR do an upgrade to the box, this might help Quote

All too often TCU upgrades are sold as a solution to "torque limiters" in which many companies charge extra to raise. While some companies may have trouble with torque interventions from the transmission, even at stage I power and torque levels, APR ECU upgrades do not require a TCU upgrade to meet advertised peak torque levels. APR does not charge extra to "raise the limits." Raising the limits does not increase performance and does not increase the transmission’s ability to hold more torque. The maximum torque limiters are simply removed, allowing customers unrestricted operation. In the event torque is limited by the factory clutches, upgraded units may be installed and torque may be increased without TCU intervention.

What a load of marketing bull IMO. Decent tuners in the UK offer DSG upgrades because at stage 2+ torque levels the OEM clutches can't cope so they have to increase the clamping pressure. And raising the limit does increase performance as you can run more torque which results in better performance when mapped accordingly. Removing the torque limit send from the engine is crazy as this will slip clutches. Plus, the ability to ditch kick-down in M mode and increase the rev limits to match manual cars is a bonus.

 

[paddy]

Well i am sure you know more about it than APR but lets face it all these companies are just spouting marketing ********. I very much doubt if r-Tech are producing a custom DSG map for your car for £300, it cost thousands to develop a map. Read between the lines and they have a Generic map they tweak for your set up and they all do that anyway.
I am running Stg 2+ with no problem from the std clutch set up, it transferred 380 bhp on the rollers without slipping or limiting torque.
as far as i am aware the torque limit is a system that dumps boost pressure at a set level and nothing to do with "mechanical clamping pressure". Raising clamping pressure is nothing to do with torque limits. If its possible to alter the Hydraulic clamping pressure you have to wonder why they set it short of its potential given the torque limit is electronic not hydrolic.

 

[-Ju-]

Never had any clutch slip on my APR'd 2+ S3 with standard gearbox map in the 2 years it was running it so it's definitely not a given.
I am mechanically sympathetic though and don't see the need to "launch it"

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