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Lag - Delay - Hesitation

CH 12 May 7, 2017

  1. CH 12

    CH 12 New Member

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    I have a new 2017 S4 which has awful acceleration lag especially noticeable when pulling away from a standing start when you need to accelerate reasonably fast into moving traffic on roundabouts etc to the point I believe it could be dangerous, so in turn you have to wait for a larger than normal gap to pull out in, which then annoys those waiting behind you. I cannot make my mind up if it is throttle lag, gearbox lag or clutch lag or a combination.(I would not attribute the issue to turbo lag) It has been back to the dealer twice now re this The dealer acknowledges that there is a lag, but does not know what to do about it other than now saying this is normal, they suggested contact Audi customer service each time who in turn said take it back to the dealer.The dealer then said call Audi customer service again and now report it as gearbox lag which I tried to do but they are not responding to calls or emails. I have since been in a new S5 which has similar engines and gearbox's and also appears to have a similar lag issue.Before this car I owned a 2014 B8 S4 which was really good with no issues at all so I am totally disappointed with this car.

    Has anyone else noticed this issue with B9 platform Audi's.
     
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  3. Simonb1975

    Simonb1975 Guest

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    What settings do you have for gearbox etc
     
  4. rich_16

    rich_16 Member

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    I have this lag with my 218ps TDI. I have the s tronic gearbox. I think the S4 has the tiprontic box maybe it's something affecting all the autos.

    For me it ruins the car as I don't really get to enjoy the power of the engine in the way I should but I've been told that's how it is.

    Flipping the gearbox into dynamic mode reduces the lag so I routinely do this when approaching roundabouts etc.

    Even in dynamic mode the gearbox isn't as responsive as the ZF 8 speed box in the BMW 4 series my wife has when in comfort mode. It's s real shame.

    I like my A4 but wish I'd got a lower powered one as I can't really enjoy the power due to the gearbox.

    I'm hoping a future software update may improve things.
     
  5. vinvinian

    vinvinian Active Member

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    I will admit that you either wait for a gap as you said . Or hang on for dear life . It's all or nothing . A remap of gbox would do it .but Audi will not admit it

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
     
  6. Bellasdad

    Bellasdad Member

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    I feel your pain. The lag is unbearable and makes driving a chore especially around town. It can at best make you look foolish and at worst be extremely dangerous. I've tried every combination of gearbox settings and dynamic seems to improve things but it can still be unpredictable at roundabouts and junctions.
    I'm getting to the stage of saying enough is enough, taking a hit and chopping it in for a manual or even a different model completely.
    It's such a shame, I've always had Audi's and always A4's but this is the first auto box version. I love the look of the car and the interior is amazing but the driving experience has let the whole thing down.
     
  7. Spaceman_RS3

    Spaceman_RS3 Well-Known Member Team Ibis Team Panther Audi RS3 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Is it the same even if you give the throttle a proper stab? What about if you have the gearbox in manual? It sounds like it's more the auto in comfort trying to be smooth and hence slow to get going and I'd guess the throttle would be in lazy mode too?
     
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  8. rich_16

    rich_16 Member

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    This is my first Audi and sadly will be my last all the while they make autos drive like this. I really hope they learn from this!
     
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  9. Simonb1975

    Simonb1975 Guest

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    Drove an stronic tfsi 190 last weekend, didn't check the settings but didn't notice any lag at all. I understand the diesels are worst.
    I was told to lift of the brake gently at a junction to get the ball rolling (something to do with auto brake/stop start etc) but there was no negative effect of the test drive.
     
  10. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group S-line owners group saloon Audi A4

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    It has always been that way with all the vag dual clutch gearboxes so its not like this is new news. However I get around it by just putting it into sport if I want to drive the car in more 'spirited' fashion. But I would certainly not describe this as dangerous at all. Not sure about the gearbox in the S4 but I thought it was the zf version that is fitted to the bmw...
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
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  11. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    I have to admit that during my day long test drive of the S4 I didn't notice a large amount of lag. I went into it knowing it was a torque converter gearbox and not an s-tronic like my last one and thought it drove better than older autos. In comfort it's very slushy and more like a traditional auto and when in dynamic it was much more sporty to me.

    Never noticed the terrible lag though I'm afraid!


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  13. EddieRS3

    EddieRS3 Active Member

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    My best advice mate is to always drive in individual mode with gearbox/engine on dynamic, then set the other parts to your liking. I did this with my previous Audi.

    Dynamic doesn't mean Drive round in "S" mode all the time, just knock it into D. Should solve it! Also make sure start stop is switched off 100%

    On the one I drove I don't remember any lag, but I did the above routine as soon as I got in to test drive it
     
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  14. CH 12

    CH 12 New Member

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    Unfortunately with this model it does not matter which mode you use, the lag is always there. Even if you put the gearbox in manual, use sport or individual mode it makes very little differance.
     
  15. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    Are you actually putting the drive select in dynamic though? I'm pretty sure that sharpens throttle response over just putting the gearbox in S mode?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. CH 12

    CH 12 New Member

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    Yes, both I and the dealer have tried literally all modes and the lag is still there. It spoils a really nice car. Other people have driven the car and commented on the issue as well. A mate of mine owns a Supercharging company so I let him drive it and he commented on it straight away. The dealership had not noticed the issue until I demonstrated it, then they agreed there was lag.They even took a new S5 out with me as passenger and that did identical.
     
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  17. Simonb1975

    Simonb1975 Guest

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    I guess its open to interpretation. Some people notice, some don't. We all know its generally there and there are ways to reduce it.
     
  18. Ad72

    Ad72 Active Member

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    How many miles had the car done? My A6 Bitdi fitted with the same ZF 8 speed was exactly the same but got progressively better as the miles built up. At 5k mikes I sold it and am now waiting on my S4 to be built. The A6 was never without a bit of lag but once run in was by no means dangerous, when new it was!!!


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  19. SteveMcB

    SteveMcB Well-Known Member SQ5 owners group Team Sepang Audi Cabriolet Owner Group

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    I tested both 309 and 326bhp SQ5s and noticed throttle delay/lag from stand still. My 340bhp plus model doesn't have it, I can only assume it's due to a slightly different map.
    Could it be the fly by wire throttle and not the gearbox? A pedal box could then maybe be an option.

    https://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/systems_available.php?id=5307
     
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  20. Spaceman_RS3

    Spaceman_RS3 Well-Known Member Team Ibis Team Panther Audi RS3 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    Pedal box was my next suggestion am sure abyss posted about it also
     
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  21. syed123

    syed123 Active Member

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    I have a mapped 272 tdi Saloon quattro, currently at 12k miles and has the same ZF gearbox as yours.

    I noticed when new the lag was very apparent, as the miles built up it got better and now I can say its 99percent accurate in most driving situations ( I drive in comfort and never really feel the need to use sport or dynamic for over taking)
    When I felt the gearbox was playing up, I downshifted a number of times and weirdly this seemed to waken up the gearbox and sharpen up the responses.. mind you this didn't always work but did 60percent of the time.‎
    Sometimes it seems that the gearbox just needs to wake up but I completely can understand how you must be feeling about the lag. A few reviews I've read before on auto express did also mention the lag on the new s4 so it's possible that it's the mapping within the gearbox.
    Hope this gets sorted for you though!
     
  22. Migwire

    Migwire Active Member

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    The 190 TDI I have (manual) also suffers from terrible lag. The 184 TDI A3 I had previously was a real cracker of an engine but this one doesn't have the same get up and go. Combined with rattles coming from at least three different areas of the cabin and a six week wait before Audi can look at it I'm already considering getting rid after only two months.

    Quite fancy a 430i M Sport

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  23. Dippy

    Dippy Well-Known Member Team Monsoon Audi S5 Black Edition

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    I must test drive one of these new cars someday. I have only experienced turbo cars with manual gearboxes or my supercharged S5 with dual clutch gearbox. We have @CH 12 stating that a B8 with s/c engine and s-tronic was fine, but now the B9 with turbo engine and ZF box has a delay. Then we have @rich_16 stating that an A4 with turbo diesel engine and s-tronic has delay. That makes the common factor a turbo.

    Turbo lag can only ever be reduced, never eliminated. The only real solution is to compensate for the lag with something else, hence hybrid cars with turbo+supercharger, turbo+electric blower or turbo+electric motor. But it is also clear that the effect of turbo lag is subjective. I remember when the B5 RS4 came out. To me the difference in lag to my B5 S4 was as obvious as hell, but my friend who had the RS4 always played it down. Most reviews of the B9 S4/S5 claim little or even "zero" lag. But I have now read a few from owners who are noticing lag. @CH 12 doesn't believe that it is turbo lag but I have trouble believing that. Clearly Audi has done a fantastic job designing this engine and am fully ready to accept that it has low turbo lag, but never that it is zero.

    Aside from that, I do wonder about the gearbox. I would assume (but might be wrong) that Audi buy the complete 'box including TCU from ZF because I really can't see the sense in designing their own TCU. So considering how widely ZF 'boxes are used, and the fact that ZF is a gearbox specialist, I have a hard time believing that it has bad mapping. But I'll keep an open mind in which case if the delay being discussed here is pulling away from standstill, then for it to be a gearbox mapping problem then surely it has to be either a delay in the 'box changing from N to 1st gear, or for some reason it is in 2nd gear. Does that make sense to you guys? From what I have read about the torque convertor 'boxes I would have expected it to be in 1st gear and slipping the convertor whilst the brake is applied. Then when the brake is released and the car accelerates, the 'box stays in 1st gear until it decides to change. That is what I see in this video. So if there is any delay how can it be in the gearbox mapping when the gearbox isn't doing anything?

    The trouble is, now that I have seen that video, it is clear at 0.25/0.26 that the engine in that car (if not other ones), has turbo lag.
     
  24. Peter booth

    Peter booth New Member

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    I was just about to post the exact same as CH 12. I have an A4 Avant 190 TDI Sline with S tropic box this is my second A4 in 6 months as my first had to be replaced due to an issue with the chassis -long story. I have noticed exactly the same issue re lag and have fried every combination of setting to no avail. I wasn't overly concerned until I got stuck in the insid lane of traffic and when to pull into outside lane and when I hit the throttle the car hesitated and stoped midway nearly causing an accident the only way I could get the ****** thing to move was put in manual and sink the boot then it went his was not a one off but has happened a lot recently and even to the point when I start the car in the morning I sometimes get gearbox warnings and to contact dealer - which I have and they told me there is no issues with the car. There is definitely an issue with lag and I can tell you I will never have another Audi in my life again. First the first car and now this in the replacement. Really don't know what to do now.
     
  25. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group S-line owners group saloon Audi A4

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    Well all I know is that the A3 with the 1.4 140ps and a manual gearbox there is little no no delay when pulling out of junctions, yet with the stronic there is. So this must be a characteristic of the stronic, not turbo lag and seeing that many owners of VAG vehicles with the dual clutch gearbox complain of this 'issue' then this reinforces that fact.
    I was aware of this before I purchased my A4, and I was very anti stronic because of what I'd read, yet having driven it for 3000 miles I cannot see what the fuss is about. Dangerous? I'd dispute that because it is so simple to work around it...
     
  26. Peter booth

    Peter booth New Member

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    Mmmmm I don't see haveing to put an auto gearbox into manual to get it to go simple and this in my mind is dangerous as you just don't know when the lag will kick in. Something is not quite right and I do agree that the manual has no lag as my first A4 was a manual and I had no lag at all.
     
  27. Migwire

    Migwire Active Member

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    My two month old A4 does. I thought it was because I'd opted for the Ultra version, but it's supposed to have the same 0-60 as the non ultra. At times, pulling out of junctions or crossing roundabouts there's just nothing there

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  28. Simonb1975

    Simonb1975 Guest

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    Have to agree with Cuke, although my 3 experiences have been extended test drives. (2x TFSI190, 1x TDI190)
    It must be either randomness between cars or the personal interpretation of how much lag there is.
    My last TFSI test drive the thing flew of the line from a standing start. Matter of fact, if it hadn't been bone dry I might of spun like a Catherine wheel.
     
  29. cuke2u

    cuke2u Well-Known Member TFSI Owners Group S-line owners group saloon Audi A4

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    Just pull the gear lever back, simple enough for even me who hadn't owned a stronic before and was full of scepticism about the gearbox having owned manuals for all my 56 years of driving. Now, not going back to a manual ever, it is simply a fantastic gearbox...
     
  30. Peter booth

    Peter booth New Member

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    Pulling the gear leaver back puts it in sport and I have tried this to no avail as I said only way is whack it in manual and plant it then it will go - not so simple eh
     
  31. DEWCATI

    DEWCATI Member

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    Poor driving if you are having to floor it out of every junction,my 272 seems way fast enough for me and I don't hang about
    Drive select saves fuel by slowing throttle response I believe.
    Even Citroen 2CV can get out of junctions it's all relative speed you know


    Just saying .......mines superb.
     
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  32. mjcourtney

    mjcourtney Well-Known Member Team Mythos S-line owners group TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group

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    I too have the 2.0tdi 190 s-tronic. I've also experienced the lag when trying to accelerate quickly either from a standstill or when already moving. In each instance I noticed it I had planted my foot to the floor, followed by a lag, the gearbox changing down two gears and then getting a surge of acceleration. I have since found that applying a smoother movement to the accelerator pedal results in much less lag.

    I can only assume that when you quickly apply full acceleration the gearbox panics and attempts to downshift several gears, hence causing the delay. Accelerating more smoothly doesn't cause such a harsh downshift and you actually get a much more instant response.

    There is definitely a knack to it and I'm not sure I've got it 100% yet as it still catches me out occasionally.

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  34. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    That's not lag, he's got his foot on the brake and loading the drivetrain/building boost for a launch. I did the same thing when I tried a 0-60mph.


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  35. alFR

    alFR Active Member Audi A4

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    Likewise, my 272 seems fine: if I really boot it from a standstill it just about rearranges my internal organs for me, even if it's not in dynamic. In economy the throttle response is slower, of course, but that's by design. Even in that mode I've never felt it's dangerous at a junction etc.
     
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  36. basegreen

    basegreen Active Member

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    Having come from a NA manual petrol engine (VTEC) before, I'm used to applying throttle in a certain way which seems to work OK with the Stronic TDI I have. There's a touch of lag, but once you understand the characteristics of the engine, you just adjust and pre-empt. I have a much bigger issue with the stop start kicking in as you roll to a stop at a junction, a quick opportunity to transit the junction is lost because the engine turns off just as you start to re-apply throttle. I leave mine in Dynamic mode, and pull back for S if I suspect I might need some extra beans.
     
  37. NickGun

    NickGun Active Member Team V6 TDi Audi A4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro S tronic

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    In our 3.0TDi 218Q Avant while there is a little lag in economy, however for us at least, I would never describe it as dangerous. We've driven over 13k miles in it across UK, France, Spain and Italy without even a hint of potential incident due to lag when pulling out or overtaking etc.

    Like others we tend to drop into Sport / Dynamic when approaching or leaving junctions anyway, and have to say that once our engine passed 5k the economy and acceleration has steadily improved and we find it more than fast enough for pretty much every situation.

    Guess if some people have access to other ZF 8speeds in BMW for instance it might exaggerate their perception of lag possibly, our other car is a 1.8iS MX5, so is a manual high revving 16V, so needs much more use of gears to keep on the boil anyway. And to be honest I find no issue jumping from one to the other, nice to appreciate the difference in character and power delivery.
     
  38. 81llyh

    81llyh Well-Known Member Team Glacier Team V6 Team Sepang Team Navarra Audi RS3 Audi S4

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    Disable stop/start on vcds it's annoying
     
  39. KimboS4

    KimboS4 S4 Avant 2017 Team V6 Audi S4

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    For what it's worth I really like the V6 turbo engine in my 2017 S4,it'll tootle along quite happily in Eco setting and when you give it some welly it goes like the proverbial off a shovel and I honestly don't notice any turbo lag,maybe that's the car or maybe just me.Must say as an aside,it is a lot thirstier than I thought it would be but I ain't complaining!!
     
  40. Simonb1975

    Simonb1975 Guest

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    As for lag from a standing start. Audi usa posted a video on youtube a few years ago about using stronic boxes.
    Now if i can get the details right from memory, at a standstill the dual clutches have reverse and 2nd gear selected. When forward movement is detected it would shift from 2nd to 1st creating a slight delay. The solution i think was a light press of the gas pedal to get the ball rolling or something like that. I reckon its that last bit that some of use do automatically without really giving it much thought that means we dont all suffer the lag from standstill.
     
  41. Dippy

    Dippy Well-Known Member Team Monsoon Audi S5 Black Edition

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    I'm referring to the boost gauge.
     
  42. Daggerit

    Daggerit Well-Known Member Team Floret Silver TFSI Owners Group Team V6 Audi S4 Audi Avant Owner Group quattro

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    I gotcha. If you look at other models that have boost gauges such as S3, RS3, RS6, etc, I don't think that there's much of a difference in terms of how it builds to be honest. I'd be surprised if that was the source of a 'dangerous' level of lag off the line is more what I mean.
     
  43. Snake Pliskin

    Snake Pliskin Well-Known Member Supporter Team Floret Silver Audi RS3

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    My last car was a 2013 S5 which was great and no issues with the auto box.

    Currently have an RS3 and find the auto fine in this also.

    Why have Audi ditched the s-tronic for the new S4 and seamingly fitted an inferior auto box ?

    I've heard a lot of negative comments about the auto on the new 4's now.

    Not liking the sound of this at all !!!
     

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