Karls 3.0 TDI build thread

Hi James that's pretty much the same setup that I run. I didn't really do it to get a big hit in power more so to make the power more consistent and make life a little easier for the engine. That's a good time what was your terminal speed ?
Some people have said that it's possibly better to have 2 injection points for the WMI on the intake manifold of the engine as the amount of WM delivered to each bank is liable to be different.
GetImage.aspx

The intake for one bank has to turn back on itself and it's possible that the one bank would get more WM than the other.
But if you introduce it closer to the engine I don't think it will have as much time to vapourise and mix with the incoming air.
 
It was 107mph.

Yes ,I was thinking the same way closer to the manifold has less time to do it's job.

My aim is to do a 12.9 with the dpf and cat still operating.

Another 30hp and more boost off the line should get me there.
 
Have you ever tested a water spray in front of your intercooler before Karl ?

I have found it has droped my charge temps down an extra 7c.

On a side note, do you what pressure the fuel rail relive valve opens up on these engines ?
 
Never bothered with a water spray. They are not really allowed on a quarter mile or race track so not much point. I run 1800 bar and it's fine at that. Is your car a CCWA or CAPA ? . Although 0.3S doesn't sound a lot on the 1/4 mile it actually takes a noticeable increase in power to go that much faster.
You will probably run into EGT issues as well if you are trying to keep the DPF as this certainly doesn't help with exhaust back pressure.
 
So then Karl, you seem to be the man to talk to about these 3 litre diesels.
Could you tell me a bit about the difference between the CAPA engine and the CCWA engine? mines a very late 2008, is it a later or earlier engine and what is the hardware/software differences. Should I be pleased that I got the CCWA engine or cursing the fact I didn't spend a little more time searching!
Mines also an auto, I have no idea if that would make a difference to the engine code?

Thanks in advance.
 
desertstorm said:
Never bothered with a water spray. They are not really allowed on a quarter mile or race track so not much point. I run 1800 bar and it's fine at that. Is your car a CCWA or CAPA ? . Although 0.3S doesn't sound a lot on the 1/4 mile it actually takes a noticeable increase in power to go that much faster.
You will probably run into EGT issues as well if you are trying to keep the DPF as this certainly doesn't help with exhaust back pressure.
Click to expand...

The engine is a CCWA.

Current EGT max at 870c with 60% methanol.

Yes very true .3 sec is not easy to get but I have only had 1 run ever in this car down the 1/4 and its still running stock boost.
 
Hi Owyn, the CCWA is the later engine and the main difference is the injection pump. On a CAPA it uses a CP1H pump running at 1600 bar. On the CCWA this was changed to the CP4 high pressure pump system running 1800-2000 bar pressure.
There are other detail changes but this is the main one.
It seems the Autos got CCWA engines and early manuals the CAPA. Bobby Singh has a CCWA auto and he is running 450bhp and 900Nm on his car however he has a hybrid John Deere tractor turbo and a different injection pump system on his car.
 
I am not sure what you mean about stock boost?. If you are running extra fuel and water meth why have you not increased the boost especially as your car has a DPF. Do you mean your car has the standard turbo ?
The standard car has a protection map that kicks in at 850 degrees to limit fuel, this is what Garret say the VNT is happy with. Most people will go a little higher maybe 900 degrees but after that you will start damaging the VNT especially if you run for a an extended period of time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Owyn and BRO-Performance
desertstorm said:
I am not sure what you mean about stock boost?. If you are running extra fuel and water meth why have you not increased the boost especially as your car has a DPF. Do you mean your car has the standard turbo ?
The standard car has a protection map that kicks in at 850 degrees to limit fuel, this is what Garret say the VNT is happy with. Most people will go a little higher maybe 900 degrees but after that you will start damaging the VNT especially if you run for a an extended period of time.
Click to expand...

The total max boost pressure after the tune is 22psi. That's is what I log it doing before I got the tune as stock standard boost.

Long story, but I ask the tuner to increase the boost to 25/26 psi but he never done it.

After the tune was done he says he will only increase the boost if I remove the dpf.

I don't want to do that.
 
Thanks Karl, good info, I've read all of your and Bobby Singh's threads with great interest.
I've never had a map put on a car, I flirted with the idea in my old Volvo but that was FWD and was lairy enough.
This car feels like I expect a bit more when I boot it so am considering doing something with it, I still may bottle it and leave it standard though.
 
Who is tuning the car ?? If you have not increased the boost but just dialled in more fuel the lambda values will have dropped quite a bit and the car will be putting out more smoke. You can't see this of course as you have a DPF but it won't do the DPF any good in the long term.
This is exactly the same as what most of the diesel tuning boxes do. They just add more fuel without increasing the airflow and rely on the excess air that the manufacturers map creates to give a clean tune.
There isn't any reason why you can't increase boost and keep the DPF especially in the mid range.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BRO-Performance
It's a local tuner, he does mainly European cars, but I think not many Audi....(I'm in Australia)

He did change the boost curve, it now holds the boost higher into the rev range maybe 3 to 4 psi during certain parts of the rev range, but still uses stock overall max total boost pressure.

Dpf Soot levels haven't increased since The tune was flashed in.

Huge fines in Australia if you remove pollution equipment from a vehicle, is one reason why I want to keep the dpf.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BRO-Performance
Have you done an acceleration run and tried logging the Lambda values to see what's going on at the moment. If you are hitting 870 degrees EGT then you are pretty maxed out with the tune as it is ATM. It should be making around 300 bhp. Removal of the DPF removes quite a restriction from the exhaust which allows more scope for tuning. However with the possible financial consequences of that better to stick as it is. Fortunately the DPF is closely coupled to the turbo on the 3.0 so there aren't that many issues with them getting clogged. As long as you are doing longer trips you are probably going to be OK.
 
No I haven't check lambda values yet.

I got my egt readings from vcds on pre turbo values. Is this the correct way to get a accurate egt reading ?
Or is a external egt gauge and sensor the only way ?
 
Pre turbo readings are the way to go. I have an EGT gauge on my car and I have mounted the sensor in pretty much the same place as the OE pre turbo sensor.
 
Karl, is your fuel pressure regulator part number a 057 130 764 H ?

I know your running up to 2000 bar
,but on my engine the fuel rail release valve is opening up at about 1900 bar with the above part number.

I'm currently playing around with a twin channel tuning box which has increased boost 2 to 4 psi but with the increased rail pressure is kicking in the rail relive valve at 1900 bar.

Have you ever heard of anybody using shims to slightly increase the spring pressure on these Audi sensors before ?
 
Hi James,
Not running 2000 Bar never tried any more than 1800 Bar, still running the standard fuel rail sensor which only runs to 1800 Bar.
My engine is a CAPA , the part you quoted is used on the CCWA engine.
Remember that if you are using a tuning box the actual pressure seen on VCDS is not what the real pressure is . The tuning box reduces the output of the sensor and passes this onto the ECU. The ECU then commands the pump to try and make more pressure. The sensor on the CCWA maxes out at 2000 bar so any pressure higher than this results in no increase in the fuel rail pressure reading.
 
Oh ,of course it makes sense now Karl Thanks
So the rail pressure must be going over 2000 bar to get the relive valve kicking in.

With out the box fitted i have seen fuel pressures up to 1850bar.

With the box fitted I seen up to 1870 bar which might really be over 2000 bar.

I might just run it again down the 1/4
With this set up, but on the lowest box fuel setting. At least it peaking at 25/26 psi now.

I might try 1 run with 60/40 meth water then another with 70/40.

I might try short shifting it at 4K in first gear and then at 4.4k every gear after that as I notice on the boost gauge the boost pulls back 5psi between 4.4k and 4.9k so if I shift earlier the boost should hold at 25/26 psi and shift quicker too.
 
Last edited:
JamesRSD said:
Dpf Soot levels haven't increased since The tune was flashed in.
Click to expand...
Be careful with soot level figure as I think it's a calculation, not actual soot level in the DPF.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bredhurststeve
I don't think you are anywhere near opening the rail pressure limiting valve. I think Booby Singh runs with the standard valve and goes well over 2300 bar. The CP4 pump can make good pressure but it's not so good at flowing a lot of fuel. You are asking it to do both at the same time which it struggles to do .
What happens is as demand increases beyond what the pump can flow the pressure starts to fall. You may have reached this point .
Typically a tuning box will give you a maximum of 15-20% extra fuel pressure in the midrange and 10-15 % extra at higher RPM so I would guess the rail pressure would be around 2050 - 2100 bar assuming the pump can provide that much pressure with the flow requested.
This is the reason Bobby changed to a CP3 pump with a much higher flow capacity, short shifting in first is a good idea you don't need to go beyond 4500 rpm. The boost is dropping off as the turbo is incapable of sustaining that level of boost at those RPM, you are better off shifting around 46-4700 .
I don't think you will see much of a difference with that small change in water meth mixture. You don't want to go to a level where it becomes too flammable.

You can ignite 50/50 but it doesn't burn too well. By the time you get to 70/30 it's a lot easier to get it to burn.
 
Hello Karl, do you have any instructions on removing the dpf assembly from the car? As iv had mine gutted but they havent done the cat and i would like to do it :) Cheers Dan
 
Hi Karl, I am new to these forums and been reading your thread, a true inspiration, thank you!
I have just purchased an A4 avant se 2.0 tdi 2011, exactly the same colour as yours. In fact looks the same as some of your early pics, before losing and changing your wheels. I want to start by lowering it a bit, not too much, approx the same as an s line. Any tips or hints and where to take it near Cambridge to get it done ?

Thank you again

Neil
 
Hi Neil,
The Eibach spring kits are good to get the car lowered. Sorry I can't help you with a garage to do the work near Cambridge. There must be a good VW specialist somewhere near Cambridge. You could post a thread in the General forum asking to see if anybody knows of a good garage to do the suspension work in the Cambridge area.
 
Hi Karl, thank you kindly, will keep you updated.
 
Hello Karl
Just wondering about your thoughts on the Clutch Delay Valve, I haven't seen any reference to it in your excellent thread.
I thought that you would want to delete it to help the launches and quick gear changes ?
I am assuming 3.0L diesel chassis are fitted with them like the petrols.
 
This is what you are looking for.
Looks like it's not far from the master cylinder, just put a brake pipe joiner in there ?

Proper description is Clutch "Accumulator" seems common on cars these days.
It does prevent "dumping" of clutch, but will also prevent proper engagement of clutch when changing gear quickly in a "sporting" manner!
 
Last edited:
I have had a look into this today.And as you say this seems to be quite a common mod on the manual transmission cars in the USA. They have modified stainless hoses that can replace the complete pipe section from the cylinder to the slave, but as you say and I have worked out today replacing that valve with some brake pipe joiners is a much cheaper and just as good solution. I will have a quick look at the car tomorrow if it stops raining, I think I have seen the valve before as you say close to the clutch cylinder.
 
Be interesting to see how removing the 'accumulator' effects the pedal feel ( if fitted if it does have an effect ? ) What is the purpose, to provide a sort of predetermined clutch engagement rate ??
 
It helps stop jerky clutch engagement from poor clutch control.When changing at full revs you can hear/feel it slow the clutch engagement
 
  • Like
Reactions: gary_a4_quattro
I think that at full revs on a modified car, upshifting gearchange, this is a recipe for Clutch Slip and before long, a knackered clutch!
The S4 has limited revs at launch, if you deactivate this (long press on button) surely the clutch will be toasted on a drag strip and give poor reaction times.
 
It seems to act as a flow limiter in the one direction , which is when the pedal is being released., and also a damper to stop vibration being passed back through to the clutch. First car I have ever had with one on.
I have noticed before that if you depress the clutch fully and then let it release by sliding your foot off it the rate it comes back up at is not that fast.
Certainly compared to other cars I have had. It's located under the servo on the bottom of the plenum chamber so not easy to get to.
If you look down past the vacuum pipe on the front of the brake servo you can see it.
170130_1437181_zpszkv8agpm.jpg~original



The one end of this is fairly close to the clutch master cylinder which is plastic, as a single connector isn't as long as the the damper that's being replaced and there doesn't look like a lot of give in the pipe I don't want to put any strain on the master cylinder joint.
Thus I have ordered two 10mm female connectors and two male connectors
BNP21 and BNP22 from this seller http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281021660609
The idea is to put a male connector between two females and make a longer connector. That way there won't be any strain put on the joint hopefully.
To get at the damper to replace it I will remove the aluminium heat shield at the back of the turbo. Not that difficult to get it out and will give plenty of room to get at the part.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gary_a4_quattro and xpoweruk
PenttisHSR said:
I think that at full revs on a modified car, upshifting gearchange, this is a recipe for Clutch Slip and before long, a knackered clutch!
The S4 has limited revs at launch, if you deactivate this (long press on button) surely the clutch will be toasted on a drag strip and give poor reaction times.
Click to expand...

It does indeed create a slip when on the drag strip,followed by a nice smell of clutch in the staging lane afterwards
 
Karl can you fit a Audi active sound exhaust kit to your car ?

I just made a video of mine with the aftermarket kufatec system add to the car too.

Here is the you tube link if your interested in the sound.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

bobby singh
Bobby Singh A4 3.0 TDI build thread
Replies
816
Views
350K
bobby singh
bobby singh
A4AllroadS
Paolo A4 Allroad 3.0 TDI build thread
Replies
0
Views
2K
A4AllroadS
A4AllroadS
Jamie-S
Jamie's 3.0 TDI V6 Progress Thread
Replies
92
Views
9K
Jamie-S
Jamie-S
Bulldog
Bulldogs Avant build thread
Replies
65
Views
10K
MrBenG
MrBenG
johnny_584
Johnny_584's Build Thread
Replies
99
Views
9K
johnny_584
johnny_584
Top
Back