Karls 3.0 TDI build thread

[desertstorm]

It has actually got a motor mover on it already. Really useful when you get to a site and you don't have to embarrass yourself trying to reverse the outfit.

 

[desertstorm]

Amazing thread, I've been following this for some time but just become a member. Great car and an amazing job you've done! A true inspiration!
I also drive a A4 3.0 tdi Quattro Avant, only mods is a Superchips bluefin (295ps). But it does quite well, 70-130 (km/h) in 5,2s on third gear.

Hi Alex nice car, If you are looking for a Hybrid then Fin Turbo are in your part of the world. They do a very good one that has been used by quite a few people in there A4 / A5.
http://www.fin-turbo.fi/turboahtimet/upgrade-turboahtimet-tdi.html

 

[Alexfromsweden]

Hi Alex nice car, If you are looking for a Hybrid then Fin Turbo are in your part of the world. They do a very good one that has been used by quite a few people in there A4 / A5.
http://www.fin-turbo.fi/turboahtimet/upgrade-turboahtimet-tdi.html

Thanks, I had not heard about them before, looks like a realy nice site.
But with a one year old baby in the house the money goes to diapers, toys, and babyseats haha, so I have to put the plans on hold for now...

 

[Joe3.0tdi]

With regards to the bitdi maf is it necessary for when upgrading the turbo?

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

In short, no.

 

[Joe3.0tdi]

Cool, cheers.
Im looking to pick up a second hand gt2260vk to send off for upgrading. I keep spotting the bmw variant on ebay. Does anyone know if this is the same turbo or no good on my car?

 

[desertstorm]

Fitted the discs and new calipers on the front of the car over the weekend. Good timing in response to the power hike. They feel a lot better than the previous setup and the pads haven't even bedded in yet.

This is what the TTRS wheel well vents and the Porsche Macan scoops look like.

I cut down the brake back shields to similar size to what is used on the Porsche Macan. These basically are just there the provide direct radiated heat protection for the ABS sensor and the rubber boots on the suspension ball joints.

No point in making mods to get more air into the wheel well without removing barriers for the air to get to the disc.

There is a good weight saving as well with this mod. The old caliper and pads was 8Kg the old disc 10.6Kg so a total of 18.6Kg . The new caliper with pads was 5.2Kg and the new disc 8.4Kg a total of 13.6Kg.
So that's a reduction of 5 Kg unsprung weight on each wheel.

 

[bobby singh]

That smoke you see is when it's spooling, lambda is set quite rich there, around 0.9. That's the price of spooling up a big turbo

The power dip isn't really a dip, it just stops climbing so steeply as peak torque drops off. The engine then seems to be able to hold on to the lower torque we are requesting and so power climbs more steeply again. One of the challenges here is for torque not to get out of control, so a lot of work is spent trying to profile the torque curve, against what the engine and turbo naturally wants to do. I think we could do more but we have to remember this is Karl's daily that he tows a caravan with. Mrs Desertstorm would not be too happy with a broken clutch plate, parked up in your local seaside village lay by complete with an ABI Marauder in tow!

Rick

I had the same issue on mine but I added more tighter smokelimiter they seem to burn smokefree around lambda 1.
Maybe the torq limiter can smooth out power curve

With regards to the bitdi maf is it necessary for when upgrading the turbo?

I would say not necessary but if you have the budget then why not. The stock maf is maxed out with a stock 2260 @ 900kg/h therefore you'll have better smoke control with a bi turbo maf.

Fitted the discs and new calipers on the front of the car over the weekend. Good timing in response to the power hike. They feel a lot better than the previous setup and the pads haven't even bedded in yet.



This is what the TTRS wheel well vents and the Porsche Macan scoops look like.



I cut down the brake back shields to similar size to what is used on the Porsche Macan. These basically are just there the provide direct radiated heat protection for the ABS sensor and the rubber boots on the suspension ball joints.



No point in making mods to get more air into the wheel well without removing barriers for the air to get to the disc.

There is a good weight saving as well with this mod. The old caliper and pads was 8Kg the old disc 10.6Kg so a total of 18.6Kg . The new caliper with pads was 5.2Kg and the new disc 8.4Kg a total of 13.6Kg.
So that's a reduction of 5 Kg unsprung weight on each wheel.

Karl nice mods - are these the same caliper's from the Q5's running 345mm discs?

 

[Matt.L]

Don't want to divert this thread away from Karl's car, but Bobby do you know if anyone (including yourself) is able to get the 2260 to work on a BV50 turbo'd 3.0 TDi? I know the actuator and ECU is different but I want the 2260 on my car.

 

[bobby singh]

Matt I guess you'll need to mount the BV50 actuator to the 2260. I can ask if hybrid is available whereby the shaft is stronger and there are such bearings available.

Best to pm

 

[desertstorm]

Karl nice mods - are these the same caliper's from the Q5's running 345mm discs?

They are the Q5 Brembo calipers I got them through the parts ordering system on here from Mike. Stafford Audi wanted £428 for one caliper Mike did the pair delivered for £528.

The part numbers are 8R0615107G and 8R0615108G . They come unpainted but easy enough to paint.
They use the same brake pads as the Subaru STI , Mitsubushi Evo so the choice of pad compounds is great. You don't get to use the pad wear sensor on these pads but thats not an issue for me. I have just tie wrapped the sensor and the wiring up by the connector so if it's ever needed it can just be clipped back on the pad.

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

had the same issue on mine but I added more tighter smokelimiter they seem to burn smokefree around lambda 1.
Maybe the torq limiter can smooth out power curve

We had it smoke free here, i'd need to dig out the Dyno plots, but leaner you could clearly see it was producing less torque during spool and more torque in this area was/is quite important to Karl. You pays your money and you makes your choice

Rick

 

[desertstorm]

Small tweak with the suspension today. I was always quite amazed at the improvement the Top strut bar made to the handling on the Passat. Much more positive and less corrections when in the middle of a corner, just felt so much tighter.
The Audi has a similar bar connecting the tops of the struts but it is a fairly flexible affair and you can easily twist it by hand. It's just an L section made from thinnish pressed steel.
Looking at other B8 forum posts I spotted a link to a product they have in America the CR-15 upper strut brace.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/658976-CR-15-Upper-Strut-Tower-Brace-Realtime-Install

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-chassis-flex-and-is-there-really-any-benefit

Everybody that has fitted it appears to think it's good to very good and has a noticeable effect on handling.
Looking at some pictures of it I thought I could probably make one as basically it's only a piece of 25mm 10swg aluminium tube with various holes and cutouts.
Ordered the tube from Fleabay quite reasonable £9.95 for 1m 25mm square 10 swg (3.25mm) wall thickness .
Don't get 16swg it's too thin.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270954529113?

By removing the existing brace which is very easy you can use it as a pattern.

There are tabs sticking up at each end that are used to secure covers on each side. In America they have a different arrangement and use different covers. They do however mill a small slot in the bottom of the bar to accomodate the tabs. As I won't be using these I just bent them flat, easy to do with a bench vice as the steel is thin.

You need to file some clearance for the back of the master cylinder, just a few mm. Also for the part where the battery distribution box mounting plate is.
And 2 holes that line up with the bolts that secure the aluminium plenum heatshield.
You can use the existing holes on the Brace as a pattern.
You need to file some flats on the 3 existing nuts if you want to use them as they are to wide otherwise to fit in the tube. You will need another 8mm nut and some washers as well.

Took me about 90 minutes measuring, drilling and filing.

And the result is pretty much as people who have fitted it to there car have said.
Front end feels more positive, you don't seem to have to make corrections mid corner as much and also I have noticed there is less creaking from the car.
When I go onto my drive across the dropped kerb it always used to groan a little as I cross it at an angle. It now doesn't groan at all.
I already have uprated springs shockers and roll bars and I can feel the difference. On a standard car I suspect it would be more pronounced.

Karl.

 

[xpoweruk]

Nicely done

 

[Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.]

Your block paving is looking very presentable

 

[BRO-Performance]

Respect! Nice car...

 

[desertstorm]

Small update,
Paid another visit to Rick at Unicorn and he tweaked the map to improve the spool and reduce the smoke.
Did a fantastic job as car really picks up well now with very little smoke at all .
Whilst altering the maps we had it upto 600Lb/ft thats 800Nm and it was running close to 400bhp but was hitting the EGT limiter , If I had run water methanol it would have kept it under the limiter and would have made more than 400 bhp I am sure.
However as this is a daily and not normally run with water meth and I am not sure how the clutch would handle 800Nm on a daily basis it was dialled back to 750Nm and 380 bhp.

Karl.

 

[desertstorm]

Did another Curbrough sprint track event on the bank holiday Monday with the Club GTI boys.

http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.p...ay-30th-2016&p=2435341&viewfull=1#post2435341

Great weather considering it was a bank holiday, I was really keen to see what difference the extra power made on the track.
I wasn't disappointed and I set a new fastest lap time for myself and was only 1.5s of the fastest lap of the day and 1.1s behind a Jabbasport remapped 355 bhp Seat Leon Cupra sub 8 with an experienced driver at the wheel .
4th fastest Car out of over 20 cars.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...es/2015-seat-leon-sc-cupra-280-sub8-uk-review

My car

A Porsche 911 , Sounded great and looked nice.

Gurds really sorted Golf, Fastest car of the day just in front of the Leon.

And something different, A Tesla, nick named the milk float. I had a quick drive of this and was very impressed by the performance. If all cars in the future are like this it won't be a bad place. This Tesla is the slowest one they do but was still quicker than the Porsche.

A video of one of my slower laps, for some reason Harrys Lap timer wouldn't always trigger on the start line on the faster laps, maybe I was just going too fast .
Thanks to the Club GTI boys for arranging this and @Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. for tweaking the map. Nice to see @jojo as well out in his Golf.



Karl.

 

[desertstorm]

New wheels finally fitted to the car. I am very happy with them, they fill the arches a little more than the previous 17 inch wheels with the 235/45/17 tyres on.
These are 18 inch Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 18 X 8 ET35. They come in at 20Kg for the wheel and tyre combined with a 245/40/18 Goodyear Eagle F1 asymmetric 3.

The rim protection on the new F1 asymmetric 3 tyres is nowhere as good as the older asymmetric 2 tyres.

Old asymmetric 2

new asymmetric 3

 

[TimberVD]

Hi Karl, just wondering what your opinion on my intake mod is. The only topic I seem to find about the intake hose is your mod so would appreciate some feedback.

I had been looking for the 059129629a part for quite a while, but apart from from polish selling sites, nothing came up.

So I found an intake hose from a 2013 Audi A7, compatibility lists shows it as:

Audi A6 C7 A7 3.0 TDi Air Intake Hose 059129615L

(Donor car, 2013 Audi A7 3.0 TDI (245, 239, 204, 313 bhp Quattro compatible)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191132397545?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Also fitting an A6 etc.

Part came through the post and the pipe diameters actually fit my 2007 A5 3.0 TDI CAPA. Unlike your new hose where it's slightly shorter, I would say the angle on this one is slightly off, but with a little encouragement, first tightening the turbo side, then the airbox side, seems to work just fine, please find attached pictures!

It's a much better design then the old one, like yours, and I cable tied the sensor to the pipe as well!

Have just installed it, no access to any real hard data, but like you said, anything that will help the engine.

Pics on my car below:

 

[desertstorm]

Yours looks quite a bit longer than the original but it seems to fit OK. Got to work better than the original as the pipe transition is much smoother and the convoluted section isn't as restrictive. Going by back to back data logging I did it seemed to be flow more air. On a standard car maybe not worth much but if it's mapped or you get to a bigger turbo the standard intake is something that would probably be an issue.

 

[NotNormal]

The main restriction on the intake tract is the turbo damper, smoothing out the intake has worked well on my car, I could feel the difference
You really need to look at the rest of the intake. @TimberVD

 

[ANDYTQ]

Going for a bit of a brake upgrade in the car as hopefully it will be remapped in the next few weeks with the hybrid on. I want to do a few track day this year but don't want to go too mad with big brakes that mean big wheels. Part of the problem with the S4 brakes on the car at the moment is they are a sliding caliper brake so just one piston and the pad stops very close to the disc slightly dragging which doesn't help.
All performance cars usually have multi pot brakes as these have many advantages.
Thus looking around I saw that several people have fitted Audi Q5 brakes to their A4's and A5's . These are a 4 pot Brembo brake caliper that uses a 345mm * 30mm disc the same size as the S4.Here's a picture of a test fit of the calipers with the standard 17 inch wheels I use with winter tyres.



A few mm clearance but they do fit. I think they need something like a 3mm spacer just to give a little more clearance on the spokes

The pads in the caliper are the same size as used in the Subaru STI and EVO 2008-2015 so the choice of pad materials is immense, almost every compound from every manufacturer is available to fit these.
Bought a set of Redstuff for normal road use, yet to decide what to use for the track.



The big problem with the standard set up even if I fitted RS4 brakes is the lack of cooling, there really must be very little air getting to the brakes . So to address this issue and give them a fighting chance again after doing some surfing found some solutions to this I hope.

Porsche Macan Turbo brake ducts.



This is what the look like on the Macan, which is based on the Q5 which is based on the same platform as the A4/ A5. The Macan has 20-21 inch wheels and big brakes, you can see the brake ducts clip onto the steering rack arms by the track rod end. On the A4 they need a little shortening on the one end by about 1cm as otherwise they foul the ARB but apart from that they fit fine.
Notice the almost non existent brake backing plate, this is standard so I will be chopping the thin bit of ally thats on the A4 to match this. It just basically provides screening from direct radiated heat for the ABS sensor and track rod end. But allows a lot of air flow to the centre of disc and the face.
Cheap way of getting Porche bits on the car too as 2 ducts and 2 clips were £14 from my local Porsche dealer. Had a mooch at the cars as well whilst I was there, very nice .

Now just need to get some air in the wheel well. Bought some Audi TTRS wheel well air vents. I have fitted one side nearly just needs some trimming and it looks quite good, almost OE.
It has a NACA duct that feeds air through a vent like the RS4 / RS5 but also has quite a large wheel well grating that allows air in. I intend to buy some cheap fog light covers from Fleabay and mod them so this will allow a lot of air to find it's way to the wheel well on a track day.This is a picture from this thread where I saw this done.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...is-Challenge-Spec-ongoing-build-thread/page11



He used Phaeton back plates and scoops. A more expensive solution.

You could use any 345 * 30 mm disc but decided to go for the ECS 2 part disc. Expensive but hopefully they will do the job. These have directional vanes which RS4/5 brakes don't have . Not too many drilled holes. As long as they don't get too hot cracks shouldn't be an issue.
http://www.awesomegti.com/brand/ecs-tuning/ecs-front-2-piece-brake-discs-audi-s5-b8

The weight saving with the discs and much lighter caliper is quite surprising, The discs are 7.5 Lb lighter and the caliper is about half the weight as it's alumimium as opposed to the predominantly cast iron standard item. this all adds up to a much reduced unsprung weight.

I painted my calipers with smooth black hammerite with some white Brembo stickers.



The Q5 uses the TRW 345mm caliper in some models and the Brembo in more potent versions. They use the same master cylinder in both and the same as the A4, so another reason for sticking to this kind of solution. An RS4 uses a different Master cylinder probably to cope with 8 pots on a caliper.

Hi do you have the part numbers for the macan air scoops and clips.I will be fitting the q5 calipers to my s4 soon.thanks Andy

 

[ANDYTQ]

Small tweak with the suspension today. I was always quite amazed at the improvement the Top strut bar made to the handling on the Passat. Much more positive and less corrections when in the middle of a corner, just felt so much tighter.
The Audi has a similar bar connecting the tops of the struts but it is a fairly flexible affair and you can easily twist it by hand. It's just an L section made from thinnish pressed steel.
Looking at other B8 forum posts I spotted a link to a product they have in America the CR-15 upper strut brace.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/658976-CR-15-Upper-Strut-Tower-Brace-Realtime-Install

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...-chassis-flex-and-is-there-really-any-benefit

Everybody that has fitted it appears to think it's good to very good and has a noticeable effect on handling.
Looking at some pictures of it I thought I could probably make one as basically it's only a piece of 25mm 10swg aluminium tube with various holes and cutouts.
Ordered the tube from Fleabay quite reasonable £9.95 for 1m 25mm square 10 swg (3.25mm) wall thickness .
Don't get 16swg it's too thin.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270954529113?

By removing the existing brace which is very easy you can use it as a pattern.



There are tabs sticking up at each end that are used to secure covers on each side. In America they have a different arrangement and use different covers. They do however mill a small slot in the bottom of the bar to accomodate the tabs. As I won't be using these I just bent them flat, easy to do with a bench vice as the steel is thin.

You need to file some clearance for the back of the master cylinder, just a few mm. Also for the part where the battery distribution box mounting plate is.
And 2 holes that line up with the bolts that secure the aluminium plenum heatshield.
You can use the existing holes on the Brace as a pattern.
You need to file some flats on the 3 existing nuts if you want to use them as they are to wide otherwise to fit in the tube. You will need another 8mm nut and some washers as well.



Took me about 90 minutes measuring, drilling and filing.



And the result is pretty much as people who have fitted it to there car have said.
Front end feels more positive, you don't seem to have to make corrections mid corner as much and also I have noticed there is less creaking from the car.
When I go onto my drive across the dropped kerb it always used to groan a little as I cross it at an angle. It now doesn't groan at all.
I already have uprated springs shockers and roll bars and I can feel the difference. On a standard car I suspect it would be more pronounced.

Karl.

I think i have some simular tubing in my garage,i will check the dimentions tomorrow,if its the same i should have enough to knock 2 up,one for me and another for a mates s5 if its the same.I also have access to a machine shop if need be.

 

[TimberVD]

Yours looks quite a bit longer than the original but it seems to fit OK. Got to work better than the original as the pipe transition is much smoother and the convoluted section isn't as restrictive. Going by back to back data logging I did it seemed to be flow more air. On a standard car maybe not worth much but if it's mapped or you get to a bigger turbo the standard intake is something that would probably be an issue.

Agreed it looks much smoother. It's remapped at the moment by Bluefin (previous owner), but look to get it mapped properly in the near future. I've taken it out for a spin and there does seem to be a small change, I hope it isn't just all in my mind.

Just a question, is your latest power run with the standard exhaust? Did you change anything to it, like gutting it and installing a straight pipe inside? @desertstorm

The main restriction on the intake tract is the turbo damper, smoothing out the intake has worked well on my car, I could feel the difference
You really need to look at the rest of the intake. @TimberVD

Is the turbo damper that perforated section right before the compressor? What does it do?

 

[NotNormal]

@TimberVD

It quietens the intake sound
TBH, mine without it sounds alright, not too offensive

 

[TimberVD]

@TimberVD

It quietens the intake sound
TBH, mine without it sounds alright, not too offensive

Thanks for your quick reply. But isn't the PCV piped into that? There seems to be a pipe going in there?

 

[NotNormal]

@TimberVD Yes, you're correct.
I had made an intake pipe similar to @dessertstorm
If you're on Instagram look at my pictures - C6TOM

You can see what I made

 

[TimberVD]

Just checked it out, very impressive. However I don't have any skills like that and I doubt anyone makes/sells these. I might just have to stick with the turbo damper! Thanks for your advice though.

 

[desertstorm]

Hi do you have the part numbers for the macan air scoops and clips.I will be fitting the q5 calipers to my s4 soon.thanks Andy

The part numbers for the Macan scoops are
95B.615.447.B Air baffle plate
95B.615.448.B Air baffle plate
95B.699.011.B Clamp

The scoops are handed hence the two different part numbers, the clamp is the same part number for each side.
They came to £14 when I bought them and that included £2 p+p to have them delivered.

 

[desertstorm]

Agreed it looks much smoother. It's remapped at the moment by Bluefin (previous owner), but look to get it mapped properly in the near future. I've taken it out for a spin and there does seem to be a small change, I hope it isn't just all in my mind.

Just a question, is your latest power run with the standard exhaust? Did you change anything to it, like gutting it and installing a straight pipe inside? @desertstorm

The exhaust on the latest power run was using pretty much the standard system. The DPF/ cat is gutted and the rear boxes have been tweaked to make them straight through.
Click on this link to go straight to the exhaust mod page Karls 3.0 TDI build thread
I have a valve on the exhaust that can be opened to produce more noise but this doesn't seem to make any difference to the power produced.
Basically the standard exhaust isn't that bad, with all the restriction being in the turbine /VNT on the turbo . I believe Bobby Singhs car running 440 bhp is running the standard exhaust with just a straight through downpipe to mate to the S200 turbo he is running.

 

[ANDYTQ]

The part numbers for the Macan scoops are
95B.615.447.B Air baffle plate
95B.615.448.B Air baffle plate
95B.699.011.B Clamp

The scoops are handed hence the two different part numbers, the clamp is the same part number for each side.
They came to £14 when I bought them and that included £2 p+p to have them delivered.

Thanks.

 

[dtoru]

what engine code? asb?

 

[TimberVD]

The exhaust on the latest power run was using pretty much the standard system. The DPF/ cat is gutted and the rear boxes have been tweaked to make them straight through.
Click on this link to go straight to the exhaust mod page Karls 3.0 TDI build thread
I have a valve on the exhaust that can be opened to produce more noise but this doesn't seem to make any difference to the power produced.
Basically the standard exhaust isn't that bad, with all the restriction being in the turbine /VNT on the turbo . I believe Bobby Singhs car running 440 bhp is running the standard exhaust with just a straight through downpipe to mate to the S200 turbo he is running.

Ah yeah, for some reason I get the two build threads mixed up! Looking at your link I know exactly what you did to your exhaust. Thanks for pointing it out.

Good work all together Karl, really inspiring build log for sure!!!

I've got a A7 3.0 TDI intercooler to go on the car, from the 313 bhp, part number 4G014580J, apparently it's more or less a straight swap with only some shortening of the intercooler pipes by a few cm.

(Core Dimensions: 690 x 175 x 75mm -> 9,06l)

So it should be roughly good enough for the power I'm ultimately after, 310-320bhp.

 

[desertstorm]

I looked at the Bi-TDI intercooler and as you say it's a really good fit for an upgrade. The only ones I could find when I was looking were from some of the more dodgy European Ebay equivalent sites.It has cast end tanks and should look OE.

 

[TimberVD]

I looked at the Bi-TDI intercooler and as you say it's a really good fit for an upgrade. The only ones I could find when I was looking were from some of the more dodgy European Ebay equivalent sites.It has cast end tanks and should look OE.

Yeah I had a hard time finding one from a reputable site either. This was on German eBay site and the number 0 in the part number was listed as the letter O. So simple typo on the listing but happened to find it. About £100 Inc. postage.

Any idea how much power they are good for?

 

[desertstorm]

The Bi-TDI engine seems to map to around 400bhp with the standard intercooler and if you want any more then the IC is upgraded so should be good if you fitted a hybrid to your car. The Mishimoto one I fitted to my car is only about 9.7L in size but is probably at it's limit now with the hybrid and a larger intercooler may liberate a few more hp / reduce intake temps a few degrees.

 

[TimberVD]

Nice, not bad for an OE intercooler then! Thanks ever so much for your comments and thoughts.

 

[gary_a4_quattro]

Awesome build thread Karl, very inspirational and maximum respect to you for sharing all your hard earned information.

Good luck with the continued development............. (and to think it tows a caravan too... brilliant !!! )

 

[desertstorm]

Thanks Gary, sharing is what forums are about. There are plenty of things I have done on my car that have come from other posts people have made on other forums. I am just collecting them all in one place.