K03s, K03s Hybrid or K04?

[abdus]

Currently have a K03s conversion on the A3.

wanted a bit more power but was wondering whether it would be cost effective to get a hybrid/K04 setup and how would it compare to the K03s.

I still have to get a downpipe, maybe manifold, 3" maf, injectors, 4b PFR, FMIC to get done. I know with the K03s, I might get to a relieable 225-232 and about 275lfbft torque (iirc, prawn's and dave's got 290 torque)

So i was thinking of doing it all instead of adding the bits now and then upgrading the turbo later.

Any one done any of the above?

I've read some posts on mkiv and on sc.net and there has been stories about problem with the K03s hybrid bu also good stories.

I need real figures though, not overestimations..

budget: £1500 max, less would be better.

(no need to tell me to buy another car, thanks) lol

 

[Prawn]

what setup are you running on the ko3S at the moment then matey? if you're not already running a decent downpipe and FMIC, i guess you're not pushing massive boost yet anyway? the difference given from the addition of the down pipe is amazing, boost is held higher up the rev range, as well as MUCH faster spool up ramping the low down boost right up compared to the standard DP.

On my old ko3 at 15psi I was seeing inlet temps of around 70 degrees in summer with the standard SMIC, which resulted in a huge timing pull at top end, making my revo feel very much like a TDI with a huge surge of torque (236lbft) then nothing over about 4500rpm.

Now, with the FMIC, even at 22psi of boost I never see inlet temps above 35degrees even in summer, which allows it to run MUCH more timing at the top end, giving a far more linear pull and a faster car.

Depending on what map you're running at the moment, and what power, I'd go ahead and get the downpipe and FMIC fitted, as well as a high flow cast manifold if money allows (i've heard great things about the THS cast, and the kinetic one I think badger Bill has used). then either map it and see if it's enough for you, or save up for the CRT hybrid, with ko4 internals in a ko3 housing. I think Bill recently mapped one of these on a Leon and got 220g/s MAF, equating to around 265-270bhp!

if you're not fussed about a CAT, the THS stainless downpipes on ebay are good for £100, and fit remarkably well.

the turborevs (I know it sounds AWFUL) FMIC on ebay for just £200 is identical to mine (although I paid £400 to import mine from california 18 months ago!). it needs some fiddling to fit, but when it's on it works and fits very nicely. ideally you need to blank off the DV outlet and get a forge cold side relocation kit.

I'm bored of typing now, I appear to have written an essay! so if there's anything else I can help with, give me a shout

 

[Prawn]

oh, whatever you do, if you've not done it already, you'll need a better fuel pump. my standard 3 bar A3 one couldn't cope, and gave up on the rollers, resulting in a very interesting graph peaking 225bhp at just 4500rpm!

the easiest pump upgrade by far is to find an LCR in a scrap yard, and pull the whole swirl pot/pump/sender unit and drop it straight into your tank. mine cost me £50 from a low mileage LCR, and took literally 10 minutes to fit. made a fair difference to power as well after running on a dying pump for a few weeks.

 

[abdus]

Cheers mate.


currently, I only have the K03s, catback (miltek), Forge TIP, Forge 007p, denso ik22, airbox mod. (obviously, brakes, suspension, arb)

I'm definitely going to add the FMIC and downpipe.

however, regarding the downpipe, if I remove the cat, isn't it going to lose a bit of torque? or can I get round to fitting the downpipe AND the cat (with some cutting)?


even adding these and a high manifold, I would be able to safely push the K03s to about 240-245 MAXIMUM I guess.

What about the K04? what sort of power figures?

 

[Prawn]

i think the whole decat losing torque idea is a load of ******** on turbo cars, on n/a cars loss of back pressure does seem to effect low down torque, but on a turbo, the torque comes entirely from making boost. it's not actually the standard cat that's restrictive, but the downpipe. you could spend £400 or so on a milltek downpipe and sports cat, but that's a lot of money! I'm running the milltek downpipe at the moment, but i think the cat is blocking up due to over fuelling from the custard code map, so I'm cutting the cat out next week to see if it improves matters.

As for a ko4, I personally wouldn't bother, as it's a lot more hasstle, for the same gains as the ko3/4 hyrbid which is directly bolt on. that said, if you're getting a new exhaust manifold and downpipe too, i guess you could just buy ko4 items straight off.

I think the hybrid spools slightly quicker than a ko4 due to the smaller exhaust housing though.

What map are you currently running on the ko3s?

 

[abdus]

lol...a generic remap. Could not do any other mods due to other commitments (baby born)

so now, time to get started again.

the hybrid will cost about £600 either at CR or TD

a K04 (new) being sold on ebay for £329 i think. not sure whether it is OEM.

I just had a check at the THS cast manifold, looks good and it is also good for the K04, not that expensive at £170.

I will still need injectors, maf, 4bar fpr, fuel pump to make full of the k03s hybrid

I need to break down the costs and reliability I can expect

 

[abdus]

I actually want to know what is the best option with a budget of £1500-1700 max.

and what power to be expected (whetehr it is worth doing)

 

[Prawn]

I'm fairly sure those 'new' KKK turbo's on ebay are chinese copies, which are known to be awful. a brand new K04 from audi is well over a grand, so I can't see one at £329 being worth the risk!

 

[abdus]

lol, that's what I thought

 

[Prawn]

is your generic map specific to the ko3S? or from the old ko3 you used to have?

Any idea what power figures the car is putting out at the moment?

 

[HTC]

Buy a smashed TT, rip all the parts out for your car and break the rest. The extra cash can buy you a k04 hybrid.

 

[Prawn]

that's not the worst idea on the world kev, but it does involve a big outlay for a smashed up TT first! Although if you had the time/spare cash i'm sure you could make on it overall.

 

[JasonKal]

Buy a smashed TT, rip all the parts out for your car and break the rest. The extra cash can buy you a k04 hybrid.

Where can i buy a Smashed TT ? I want a Dashboard ! .. and a few other bits!

 

[Dani_B19]

What size is te maf on the s3?

 

[badger5]

80mm maf on S3..

S3/LCR injectors and S3 sized maf tube req'd along with a K03s silicon TIP for the hybrid.. which is essentially a k04 inside a k03 wrapper so fixings remain the same.

3bar fpr is all that is required so not to stress the pump..

should see 260bhp+ once mapped to suit

 

[abdus]

80mm maf on S3..

S3/LCR injectors and S3 sized maf tube req'd along with a K03s silicon TIP for the hybrid.. which is essentially a k04 inside a k03 wrapper so fixings remain the same.

3bar fpr is all that is required so not to stress the pump..

should see 260bhp+ once mapped to suit

is that including fmic, high flow manifold, downpiep or without?

 

[abdus]

the idea of buying a smashed tt is good, but i've got no time to break it

 

[abdus]

is your generic map specific to the ko3S? or from the old ko3 you used to have?

Any idea what power figures the car is putting out at the moment?

mapped for K03s.

not sure about the figures. not had it rr'd because mods were not completed

 

[abdus]

prawn, you mean this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380130553025

that seems to inlcude all the pipings, clamps etc...

 

[Prawn]

I sure do, and the hardware is really fairly good.

however....

the silicon joiners are fairly poor quality 3 ply items, I didn't have any problems with them, but changed them for thicker 5 ply items from siliconhoses.com.

the mikalor style clamps provided arn't great, and can snap if you try to do them up too tight. i replaced mine with JCS hi-torque clamps, also from siliconhoses.com

I don't THINK the turborevs kit has an N75 take off, mine from tuner-stop in cali did, but it was too small, and i had to remake it with a new brass fitting, although that was only 20 minutes work to do nicely.

the biggest issue, is that the DV take off in the pipework is in a VERY arkward location, and i couldn't see any possible way to plumb in the DV in it's normal location, so i didn't even try, and used a forge cold side relocation kit, and had the DV take off in the pipework chopped off and tig'd over with a plate.

All in all, it's about a days work to fit start to finish, including ripping all the old stuff out, modifying the kit, and fitting it/cutting the bumper to clear.

 

[<tuffty/>]

After my failed attempts at getting an ebay FMIC to fit I have decided to follow up a lead from MAD_Adamski and call AH Fabrications to build me a proper FMIC for my S3... Should hopefully be getting this towards the end of the month.

The idea is to get a decent FMIC, get a downpipe + sports cat then the hybrid K04 from CR Turbos and get Badger Bill to map it all up for me.

<tuffty/>

 

[badger5]

is that including fmic, high flow manifold, downpiep or without?

the ones i have done so far have had larger bore manifolds, and downpipes/cats etc.
no different than you would expect from a k04, just on a k03 car

 

[ianysm]

Interesting thread this one.

So, does the addition of a DP alone improve things (on a stage one car for instance)??

 

[badger5]

it would do yes. std pipework is not very ideal for flow.

 

[Shy19s]

Bill can you supply these k04 inside a k03 hybrid? if so do you have a price please?

 

[666markyboy]

whilst you guys are talking the pro's and cons of KO3s and KO4 and Prawn you mentioned the downpipe being a good upgrade does anyone know if that same pipe will fit a Quattro ???? i have a large bore S3 exhaust system fitted to my A3 and suposedly a KO3s turbo (though i'm yet to check) i have a Forge TIP to fit (can check turbo when i do that) but i can't help but think the standard downpipe is a major restriction on my car and i would like to change it maybe even go decat but there's very little info on what would suit my car... can you guys shed any light ???

 

[badger5]

Bill can you supply these k04 inside a k03 hybrid? if so do you have a price please?

best place to speak direct with are www.crturbos.co.uk , and speak to mark there.
thats who supplies me

 

[schwartza3]

what downpipes are you guys fitting?
i want to change my custom made to something else but apparently LHS downpipes rub on RHD cars? just want an ebay one..
also anyone with an AGU engine, which other engine codes have the same turbo intake pipe?
cheers!

 

[badger5]

Miltek ones. or ones I make myself

 

[emery1990]

No point in starting new thread only a quick answer needed, is the 180bhp standard engines (A3) got the k03s turbo and the 150bhp the k03, whats the boost and power limit for the k03s , ive read that the k03 boost limits about 15 safe, and the k03s around 22 safe ?

 

[Dani_B19]

So bill do you do your own downpipes for the S3?

 

[<tuffty/>]

funny you should ask

I know Bill is in the process of making one up for a K04'd Ibiza (using an S3 mani and turbo)... I am also looking at getting him to build one for mine so you never know......

<tuffty/>

 

[Dani_B19]

What you after tuffty, downpipe or manifold?

 

[<tuffty/>]

both would be nice but Bill did say the S3 K04 tubular mani would be expensive to fabricate.

A DP will do... JBS are developing a mani for the K04 so I guess we shall have to see if thats gonna do the job...

<tuffty/>

 

[Dani_B19]

Im just after a dowmpie and de-cat/sports cat, like you said JBS are producing a mani and im aiming to get one when there finaly done.

 

[badger5]

funny you should ask

I know Bill is in the process of making one up for a K04'd Ibiza (using an S3 mani and turbo)... I am also looking at getting him to build one for mine so you never know......

<tuffty/>

remembering the one I am going to be making for the ibiza with k04, does'nt have the transfer box to get in the way.

 

[<tuffty/>]

Mate... between you and Tony I am sure you will come up with something

Get the race car done first though!!

<tuffty/>