Charlie Farley's 2.0tfsi Full PCV Delete project, and why you need to do it too.

[Charlie Farley]

OK then , a bit further down the long term test of my setup has revealed a few items that are going to be changed or modified asap.

First off is that the r-tech plate I bought is useless and I'm not recommending it now, wether because its poorly machined or just not quite right is debateable , either way the plate I was supplied is just not fit for the purpose. the plate does not fit flat and you cannot afford to overtighten it either, leaks appeared along the front top edge and prettywell along most of the bottom edge.
I have a custom plate design ready to go for batch machining shortly so one will go straight onto my valve cover and the r-tech plate will be binned.

Next is the catch tank hose barbs, they need to be tapered thread or they leak , tape can be used on parallel fittings but has to be safe on oil/petrol etc, ordinary PTFE just falls apart and oil seeps out of the threaded socket, its only a minor thing but still needs modification, it applies to the drain aswell if you use a remote drain with tap.
Also on the catch tank front, if you are using a screw on tank, make sure you lubricate the o-ring with a long life grease or similar , just a bit of oil wont work , trust me , you will struggle to get the cannister apart by hand unless you get a decent lube on the o-ring.

Other than these the setup is fine , no more oil in my IC's either.
I'm pretty sure that with these issued dealt with the setup is 100% ready for small orders, I've held back until now to make sure any issues that have occurred get resolved before I take small orders for kits.

i'll update the kit format in due corse so any interested parties can see what they are getting etc.

rob

 

[Charlie Farley]

Allmost forgot, the hoses included with the final kit will be specific fitment to the kit, the hose end connections at the catch tank will be part of the hose so no need to worry about hose clips etc and they will be QD type .
Same applies to the crankcase PCV outlet, the hose will be fitted with a direct connection to the outlet but this end is fixed .
The VC turbo outlet will have a suitable connection on the hose end for easy fitting and removal.
The tank return will be an open ended hose to allow for personal choice of connection point.

The object of changing the hose setup is to reduce the hose joints and hardware involved , make a quicker , easier and less problematic means of tank to hose connection.

Its all about making a setup that as reliable as possible but also not overly complicated with problematic joints and parts.

rob

 

[B7Benny]

Nice Rob sounds good!

 

[B7Benny]

Rob one note did you change the Pcv gasket when you put the new block off plate on. I change mine every time I have removed my current setup. In the past when I did not change the gasket it leaked as you have discribed

 

[Charlie Farley]

yes , fitted a new one when I fitted the r-tech plate , but the plate is just very poor fitting and leaks almost right around the darn thing, I've refitted it with some instant gasket for now , but not happy with the r-tech plate at all.

 

[White knight 2]

Well done Rob, good work mate

 

[Bobbytea]

OK then , a bit further down the long term test of my setup has revealed a few items that are going to be changed or modified asap.

First off is that the r-tech plate I bought is useless and I'm not recommending it now, wether because its poorly machined or just not quite right is debateable , either way the plate I was supplied is just not fit for the purpose. the plate does not fit flat and you cannot afford to overtighten it either, leaks appeared along the front top edge and prettywell along most of the bottom edge.
I have a custom plate design ready to go for batch machining shortly so one will go straight onto my valve cover and the r-tech plate will be binned.

Next is the catch tank hose barbs, they need to be tapered thread or they leak , tape can be used on parallel fittings but has to be safe on oil/petrol etc, ordinary PTFE just falls apart and oil seeps out of the threaded socket, its only a minor thing but still needs modification, it applies to the drain aswell if you use a remote drain with tap.
Also on the catch tank front, if you are using a screw on tank, make sure you lubricate the o-ring with a long life grease or similar , just a bit of oil wont work , trust me , you will struggle to get the cannister apart by hand unless you get a decent lube on the o-ring.

Other than these the setup is fine , no more oil in my IC's either.
I'm pretty sure that with these issued dealt with the setup is 100% ready for small orders, I've held back until now to make sure any issues that have occurred get resolved before I take small orders for kits.

i'll update the kit format in due corse so any interested parties can see what they are getting etc.

rob

Super interested in this mate, have you got a rough idea on costs atm? Just so I know how many buttons fluff and stamps to put aside.

 

[B7Benny]

I was thinking the mishimoto catch can we are using came with plastic/nylon fittings and I have been able to locate just about every size and style mentioned in this post in a nylon/plastic on a few sites. What are your thoughts on this.

 

[B7Benny]

Rob Actually it's not nylon fittings.It's polypropylene.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Yes it does come supplied with 3/8" NPT (tapered) fittings which are fine being Nylon fittings , I went with larger brass NPT type initially as the A4 B7 does benefit from larger bore hoses and keeping with audi's similar bore hoses, but all down to personal choice really .
larger nylon NPT barbs are very hard to source to fit the mishimoto tank , brass are available in larger sizes.
But brass fittings don't appear to offer such a air tight connection in either npt or parallel thread hence the use of thread sealing tape.
As I've worked out a better solution now it will be part of the hoses for the kit, if you are going with the 3/8" NPT route in nylon you should not have the issues of weeping threads etc.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Rob Actually it's not nylon fittings.It's polypropylene.

Mishi say they use Nylon but whatever the material is it seals better in a NPT thread than brass .

 

[Charlie Farley]

A bit of blurb from mishi themselves....

The Mishimoto Compact Baffled Oil Catch Can was designed to separate oil particles from the PCV/CCV air that would normally have just been routed back to your intake. The internal air diverter turbulates the air longer and ensures all the oil sinks to the bottom of the can, leaving nothing but clean air to pass through the 50 micron bronze filter to the intake. An internal baffle keeps the collected oil from splashing around under race conditions. This oil catch can features three ports, two inlets and one outlet, for easy installation on CCV and PCV systems. The 100% billet, 6061 aluminum can features 3/8" NPT threads at the inlet, outlet, and drain area and includes three black nylon fittings to make installation effortless. For maximum fitment options, the top mounting setup allows the can to be mounted from multiple angles. To make maintenance easy, the drain plug can be removed to allow for a return to the oil pan. The can is also 100% washable, unlike many other cans that require you to replace your filtration system.

Our catch cans are different from most air-oil-separator (AOS) systems on a few levels. First, our catch cans are not heated. This means that all of the blow-by is able to condense in the can, including low-octane oil vapors and contaminated fuel vapors. Most AOS systems also drain the blow-by back into the oil pan, while our catch cans trap the blow-by and keep it out of the engine permanently. If you’ve seen what we’ve seen in the bottom of our catch cans, you won’t want that draining back into your oil either.

 

[Charlie Farley]

One of the big plus points on why this tank works so well , and works very well on the B7 is the 50 micron bronze filter to the intake, it just traps so much nasty stuff getting back into the air flow, but need regular cleaning to work properly continuously, hence why the need to get at the tank easily and too be able to remove the tank without hassle to do regular proper cleaning.

 

[B7Benny]

Wow you are very correct Rob! Very hard to find 3/8 npt to 3/4 or 1" polypropolene couplers. But I have found 1/2 inch to 3/4 and 1".

 

[Charlie Farley]

The modified hoses I am going with work on a very similar basis as this below, the hose ends have a swivel joint female thread fitting which screws onto a male threaded port on the catch tank.
Since the female swivel nut fitting is an integral part of the hose , just loosen the nut to break the joint between hose and tank , no messing around with undoing screw clamps and then trying to manhandle off the hose from the barb end, which after the hose has been on the fitting for a while can be a struggle , times that by 3 hoses and you see the problem , well it is only a problem if you wish to remove the whole tank for cleaning properly, but if you don't want to clean it out then its not an issue, but you'll notice after a while the reduced return air flow as the brass filter get dirt, which it will.

how long does it take to undo 3 swivel nuts, probably a minute or two but how long to do it the otherway…….a lot longer and a lot more hassle, so why not make things as easy as possible and make cleaning properly a quick task and not a long chore.

 

[Charlie Farley]

here you go, ignore the pressure rating etc ,but the pipe type and fitting is what i'm going for, also with this type of fitting the choice of angled connections becomes a good option if straight coupling is not possible due to space issues, bending pipe is never ideal if you can use an angle coupling instead.

 

[Charlie Farley]

A good example of where an angle hose fitting would be beneficial , centre return hose cuts across but with an angle fitting it would be routed better along side the lower hose that comes from the VC turbo vent outlet.

With the use of the right fittings and hoses the whole install can be improved on considerably , it will also reduce the amount of hardware in the pipework setup.

 

[B7Benny]

Wow..yes that all makes sense

 

[B7Benny]

Good day all. Been quiet around these parts. I'm just waiting for a couple of parts to arrive and I will be assembleing my full Pcv delete kit. I have to take my car in for a smog test this week. Ugh California emmissions are a joke. I can't put the catch can on till after the test. Any modifications to The PCV system Is an automatic visual fail. Even if it is more environment friendly. Oh well no big deal every 2 years I'll have put the original set up to pass

 

[AvantMike]

Hi Rob, what guidelines are you using to replace engine parts on your B7? is it just good practice or is there a more detailed maintenance schedule (talking as mechanical rookie here).

 

[Charlie Farley]

Are we talking pcv based or general engine parts.

 

[AvantMike]

In general really Rob- appreciate this is a PCV delete thread (apologies for hi jacking) but you’ve mentioned a few places various jobs you’ve got in mind to keep the B7 going

 

[Charlie Farley]

Its very easy to get a tad paranoid with these cars and issues they suffer from, everyone reads about all the negative stuff with the B7 but they are not that bad, certainly no worse than most other brands/models on the market , all cars have issues and some worse than others .
Admittedly the B7 has a few that are way less than ideal .

As I pretty well know the full history of the engine i'm just doing what I feel need's doing and not just changing all the bits that may fail sometime never .
I'm doing the cam chain tensioner and seals as I have heard a few start up rattles recently when cold but not hot and as the tfsi engine can suffer from tensioner problems leading to bigger issues i'm just taking a forward view on the problem.

If there had been no rattle then i'd probably left it alone really.
I've changed the DV a few times , and last week did a vac pump rebuild as it was leaking oil a fair bit, same with the coolant union below the vac pump, it was leaking badly so replaced it a while back, i'm going to do a decoke at some point as that will need doing.
preventative maintance is good practice but there is a fine line where it becomes a bit overkill and one starts replacing and fixing parts or fixing problems that are not a problem to start with.
I've been there myself when I first got the car, started fixing things that didn't need fixing , but did have a whole shed load of issues with it to be honest, I have learnt when to fix and when to leave with the old bus now.

Maybe base your schedule on whats been done to date on the car and its milage at present , also how it runs and are there any obvious issues that need addressing either when driving or visually, just a sensible approach really , don't become a slave to the car .

well that my approach chap but everyone is different and look at things from differing perspectives.

 

[B7Benny]

Well said Rob I bought my B7 with 90,000 miles. Did the timing belt water pump ect. Had to replace the oil cooler because it is plastic and over time it no longer sealed properly to the engine block. Other than that I replaced the cam follower in the fuel pump and a couple of sensors. I now have a hundred fifty thousand miles on my car. it needs a good de choking for sure. But other than that it's still runs like a top. Routine oil changes and good gas go a long way.

 

[AvantMike]

Thanks for the advice gents - very much appreciated. Mines at 77k and to be fair to the previous owner, he appears to have spent top-$ on keeping it serviced by his local Audi garage. The only issue I've noticed is the intermittent power drop at high speed which seems fairly common from posts on here and I need to start assessing whether to look at N75 valve, de-coke or the turbo vanes...*sigh* thanks again for the info.

 

[Charlie Farley]

A word a caution though , do not assume that because its low milage with a good service history you wont have issues , that's the first mistake to make.
I have put this up before but a folder of receipts etc is worth way more than just relying on a book of service stamps, ideally both but still don't assume you will be problem free , I've been there big time so all about low milage one owner audi cars with full audi service history...really means nothing these days.

that's aside you'll be fine and enjoy.

rob

 

[B7Benny]

I recently installed a silicone hose going from intercooler to throttle body and that puppy is really sweating oil. I'm doing the Pcv delete this weekend. Going to remove the intercoolers and clean out. Last time I did that there was really only oil in the intercooler going to the throttle body. My idle has been rough and gas mileage had gone down recently. I am hoping Rob that your PCV full delete solves this problem.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Well I had my whole setup removed this weekend whilst I do a few jobs on the car, no oil in IC's, nice clean return hose to intake pipe and the VC outlet hose was only lightly soiled but a massive improvement over previous setup.

needless too say the catch tank was really filthy, one thing to keep in mind is this.
As this setup draws the all the pcv gases in directly to the tank the brass micron filter for the return air does get very clogged, which is good as its doing the job properly, but unless its cleaned on a regular basis will have an impact on the overall effectiveness of the PCV delete setup as the return flow of air will be restricted and possible back pressure may occur.
So make sure its cleaned on a regular basis to keep the setup at optimum performance etc.

I have also noticed a design flaw with the catch tank , the oil separater plate inside the tank is attached by a silly tiny little circlip and rubber o-ring to keep the plate stable, the 0-ring doesn't last long and compresses and circlip just is useless so it just flops around etc.
Solution is to cut a thread on the end section of the shaft and fit a small nylock nut, job done , not sure why the makers didn't think of that to be honest....

so that's about it for now.

 

[Charlie Farley]

Just a follow up really to my earlier post this morning.
A few pics of the oil separator and the mod to it , also what a clean filter should look like to ensure problem free operation.
also how that o-ring end up very quickly, useless or what.

I've down graded to a half delete setup for a week or so whilst I sort out the new custom hoses and new delete plate for my final version of the full delete setup, no way i'm going back to the oem setup so happy for a temporary fix to go half delete for now.

 

[B7Benny]

Nice Rob on spot as always

 

[Charlie Farley]

That thread I used is M5 ,it's not exact but works fine and you can just run a M5 die over the exisiting stub then refit a nut and do away with the o-ring/clip setup.

 

[B7Benny]

Finally did Your full Pcv delete Rob!! And the car runs great.! Spools faster..responds quicker..Idle's smoother..and over all runs better. Here are some pics of the set up. I was able to get 3/8 to 3/4 inch nylon fittings to go from the can to hoses. 250° rated fittings and hoses. Pretty straight forward process... Very pleased and will be cleaning out the IC soon as well as a walnut blast on the valves.. posting images soon

 

[B7Benny]

Finally did Your full Pcv delete Rob!! And the car runs great.! Spools faster..responds quicker..Idle's smoother..and over all runs better. Here are some pics of the set up. I was able to get 3/8 to 3/4 inch nylon fittings to go from the can to hoses. 250° rated fittings and hoses. Pretty straight forward process... Very pleased and will be cleaning out the IC soon as well as a walnut blast on the valves..

 

[B7Benny]

Having issues uploading photos. But will post more photos once I get to my PC. I did 19mm all around as that was the only hose I could find that was Pcv rated for 250° F. A couple of 25mm silicone couplers for front side of cover and turbo hose self sealing Barb from Revo-Tech... Your neck of the woods mate.

 

[B7Benny]

Oops some how did a double post..to many suds.

 

[B7Benny]

More photos as promised.

 

[B7Benny]

Block off plate. So much better to come in the front of the turbo hose on the other side of the manifold for heat reasons

 

[B7Benny]

Update on my set up. As seen in the picture this is what I have accumulated in my catch can in over a week pretty nasty. But I removed the outlet hose to the TIP on the can side and a bunch of this crap came out of the hose. I don't understand. How is it getting past the filter and baffle in the can?

 

[Charlie Farley]

Until you have a clean system you will still have residue in the pipework throught the system.
Any oil still left in the IC's (which there will be unless you have totally cleaned them out) will still get drawn around, I had some to start with until then as the IC's became less saturated with oil it stopped.
I noticed you have the return pipe in a down ward angle , this maybe acting as a low point and any air that still has small amounts of oil or water in it will be collecting in this low point, really you need the hose to be as horizontal as possible.
You need to remember the catch tank wont catch every last drop of oil or water etc , moisture is very hard to trap without a superfine gauze filter and you need a very fine filter indeed to do that , but the tank will catch 99% of it, which is a massive improvement over the original PCV arrangement.
And some moisture will get past the micron filter whereas oil is heavier and will get trapped in the tank.
have you had your IC's off yet .

I have almost zero fluids in my return hose and ic's are free from residule pools of oil now.

 

[B7Benny]

Very well put Rob. I did alot of driving this week in the rain. I will change out my return to go straight and eliminate any pooling. I'm going to take my intercoolers off tomorrow and fully clean them out with gasoline. And clean all my hoses as best as possible.