Just crashed (its bad)

[blackb9er]

Hey guys

Im sat in the car waiting for the AA absolutely gutted as I write this message

I Pulled out of my estate took the bend at around 20 mph and literally lost control. It was like the car was skating, brakes wouldnt work the steering was hopeless I was literally a passenger. Only thing I could do was brace myself for impact. I Hit the curb Hard (front passanger) car brought itself to a stop

It looks BAD not sure how bad yet (if anyone has any idea of the type of potential damage let me know)

Be very careful today guys its ICY out there! I think the Quattro has definitely given me a false sence of security today as didnt even realise there was ice on the road untill it was too late.

 

[Syed Shah]

Hey guys

Im sat in the car waiting for the AA absolutely gutted as I write this message

I Pulled out of my estate took the bend at around 20 mph and literally lost control. It was like the car was skating, brakes wouldnt work the steering was hopeless I was literally a passenger. Only thing I could do was brace myself for impact. I Hit the curb Hard (front passanger) car brought itself to a stop

It looks BAD not sure how bad yet (if anyone has any idea of the type of potential damage let me know)

Be very careful today guys its ICY out there! I think the Quattro has definitely given me a false sence of security today as didnt even realise there was ice on the road untill it was too late.

Damn man! So sorry to hear that!

Excuse me if in wrong but it does look like the front axle is damaged.. looked very similar when my friend crashed his car and the axle was damaged

 

[cuke2u]

Bad news indeed, you must feel gutted. Unfortunately you have discovered that a Quattro gives no more grip than a front wheel drive car.

 

[Gazwould]

Winter tyre debate...

 

[The Kendragon]

Oh man that’s sucks! Hopefully you get it sorted and it doesn’t cost you too much :/

 

[phope74]

I imagine that will be some suspension damage to the affected corner - easily fixed with replacement parts, new tyre new wheel (if buckled) and alignment

 

[happytalk73]

Sorry to hear and see of your bad day. At least no one was hurt or involved. (Always a bright side)

Hopefully you'll sorted soon.

Ant.

 

[holly35]

Bad news indeed, you must feel gutted. Unfortunately you have discovered that a Quattro gives no more grip than a front wheel drive car.

Yes totally agree,2 wd with winter tyres is superior to quattro on standard tyres.
There is a you tube video demonstrating this with a 2 wd skoda yeti against a 4 wd version.
Many people are surprised by this however the evidence is there..................

 

[Feyim]

So sorry to hear that.Same Hankooks fitted on my A4 as well but changed to Nokian winter tyres 2 weeks ago.
We all need to use winter tyres.Worth it.

 

[TripleD]

Damn, hope you get it sorted!

 

[The Kendragon]

What did the AA say mate?

 

[tickedon]

Sounds like it could have been much worse! Hope you’re ok and that the damage doesn’t have the car off the road for too long.

 

[blackb9er]

What did the AA say mate?

The guy that arrived had a look and says its not looking good, there's suspension tire/alloy and axle damage at the front and the back wheel took a hit and looks slightly misaligned meaning there could be some chassis damage if it has. I wont know the full extent until Monday when the mechanics inspect it.

Gutted like I said it's last thing I need right before Christmas, but it is what it is. On the flip side it could have been worse as I had my daughter and the dog in the car at the time.

Ill definitely be investing in winter tyres next year.

 

[Happy Grumpz]

You’re ok mate, that’s all that matters.

Winters are a must at this time of year imo, I don’t care if people think otherwise.

Hopefully there’s not too much damage and your pride and joy is back on the road soon.

 

[cjp2k]

Gutted for you... I know how you feel I wrote mine off the week before (Not weather related however)!!!


Thankfully my insurance company have been excellent and ordered a brand new car which I should get before Christmas!!!

 

[Syed Shah]

The guy that arrived had a look and says its not looking good, there's suspension tire/alloy and axle damage at the front and the back wheel took a hit and looks slightly misaligned meaning there could be some chassis damage if it has. I wont know the full extent until Monday when the mechanics inspect it.

Gutted like I said it's last thing I need right before Christmas, but it is what it is. On the flip side it could have been worse as I had my daughter and the dog in the car at the time.

Ill definitely be investing in winter tyres next year.

I hope it goes well for you mate. But to be honest, i wouldn't be surprised if they try to write the car off if it's chassis damage as well as the axles.. but let's hope for the best and always keep in mind it could have been worse!

 

[oliquattro]

Wouldn’t happen with winter tyres.

Quattro helps you move, it doesn’t help you stop or turn.

Quattro and winter tyres are a formidable partnership! Literally unstoppable.

 

[Fozzie1960]

Wouldn’t happen with winter tyres.

Quattro helps you move, it doesn’t help you stop or turn.

Quattro and winter tyres are a formidable partnership! Literally unstoppable.

I am sure your comments have made @blackb9er feel a whole lot better. As @Happy Grumpz said all that matters is that you and your family are safe & well.

 

[france71]

When it is real ice- not frost but glassy frozen water on the road then only spiked tyres will help - of course they are not allowed in the UK and are not really needed. So don't feel too bad in this case.

On most other conditions however Winter tyres (not snow tyres) are needed in the UK unless you live in the Devon/Cornwall.
I have been driving Quattro cars for about 20 years. The first surprise for me was that if they don't have the right tyres then the 4wd advantage is not really there - especially in braking. I discovered this with a front wheel drive Ford that had winter tyres that could climb slopes and brake better than my Quattro. In fact the difference was night and day. After that I have always invested in winter wheels and tyres (a set to change over each year). Obviously this is a pain as you have an additional cost and for some people living in the typical small UK houses the storage is a problem. The bottom line is that everyone should drive with them or leave the car at home - no compromises, this is why the UK looks pathetic compared to Europe when winter comes.

Hope that your car is not off the road for long and safe driving

 

[SteveMcB]

When it is real ice- not frost but glassy frozen water on the road then only spiked tyres will help - of course they are not allowed in the UK and are not really needed. So don't feel too bad in this case.

Agree, on solid smooth/black ice it doesn't matter how soft the rubber is, nothing except spikes will grip. Sometimes (unless you're wearing crampons) it's almost impossible to stand on never mind drive round a corner.

It's just one of those things unfortunately, it'll soon be just a bad memory though.

 

[france71]

Agree, on solid smooth/black ice it doesn't matter how soft the rubber is, nothing except spikes will grip. Sometimes (unless you're wearing crampons) it's almost impossible to stand on never mind drive round a corner.

It's just one of those things unfortunately, it'll soon be just a bad memory though.

Here in France we sometimes get what is called 'verglas' and the worst type is when it rains and the ground surface is close to, or below zero. The rain falls and instantly turns to a sheet ice. When I first experienced this I found that I couldn't even walk to my car never mind drive it. In this case it was leave the car or wait for conditions to change. Luckily it doesn't last long. It can even happen when out driving and then it is quite frightening.

This morning we had snow here in Burgundy. I took out my brand new Allroad still with the factory summer tyres, (to go get the morning croissants) - it slid a bit but managed. On Sunday I had changed the wheels to winter wheels and tyres for my partners 2wd Skoda Yeti - testing the Yeti this morning it wouldn't slide no matter what I did. I'll be fitting my new wheel/winter tyre combo on Wednesday as I haven't had time to do it yet - until then it is gentle, gentle or not using the car if things get bad. Wheel and winter tyre combo should be on anyone's list before things like virtual cockpit/metallic paint etc if money is the reason for not buying a winter wheel/tyre set.

Just a word to BlackB9er that my comments are not intended to rub his nose in it as I would feel bad myself and hope he gets sorted out soon. I only want to pass on my experiences and thoughts so others go safely.

 

[Daggerit]

Agree, on solid smooth/black ice it doesn't matter how soft the rubber is, nothing except spikes will grip.

I'll 100% back that statement! Haha.

Although in snow/rain/wet/cold conditions the winter tyres are far better for grip than summer tyres, on the ice they don't offer much more grip at all. Driving on a straight section of road on Friday I found the car almost drifting because it was sheet ice. Only by keeping a big distance from the car in front stopped me running into the back of him when the same thing happened to him and he decided he needed to pull over for a breather.

Another interesting thing I found is that you can feel the car slightly shimmy when there's very low grip as it tries to find the wheel that has the best traction, and then send the power there. Very odd feeling.

 

[cuke2u]

I did hold off replying, as I didn't wish to go off topic for this very unfortunate and unpleasant incident, however, and to clarify my post as stated, quattro has more traction but the same grip as a front wheel drive vehicle, tyres do not come into it. So when you hit the brakes, or go around a corner the same laws of physics applies. Plus, because of the added weight of a quattro system, you might find the car losing grip slightly earlier than a front wheel drive car with the weight attempting to push the car forward in the direction of travel.

 

[The Kendragon]

Have you heard back from the garage yet?

 

[blackb9er]

Thanks for the input everyone. @france71 I'm taking nothing personal. I Think it's important what's being said here as people need to understand that having Quattro doesn't automatically give you a free pass when the weather takes a turn. If anything it requires a little more caution for the false sence of security it gives the driver. If I'd have known this earlier I would have taken that bend at near walking speed.

I think we can all agree that winter tyres are a must if you have the funds and storage space.

Still waiting on the assessment from the mechanic ill post an update when I know more


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nickfrog]

Sorry to hear that - I would be very surprised if they there was chassis damage as the suspension kinematics can take a lot of sacrificial damage (ask me how I know lol). The only way to find out is to have the damaged components replaced and let the repairer put the car on a rig to see if it still aligns.
Obviously an insurance job. Front looks like £3k, maybe a bit less at the rear, assuming there is no bodywork.

 

[blackb9er]

Thanks @Nickfrog (im going to assume you've been in a similar situation ) I considered covering the cost myself to save my already sky high insurance premium from going even higher, but no point if it's approaching double figure territory for repair work. Definitely an insurance job. I Just hope I get a decent enough courtesy car

 

[SRB93]

Sorry to hear that - I would be very surprised if they there was chassis damage as the suspension kinematics can take a lot of sacrificial damage (ask me how I know lol). The only way to find out is to have the damaged components replaced and let the repairer put the car on a rig to see if it still aligns.
Obviously an insurance job. Front looks like £3k, maybe a bit more at the rear, assuming there is no bodywork.

Do I smell a Chassis/Powertrain Engineer

 

[Nickfrog]

Sorry guys I meant a bit LESS at the rear.

Yes I spun a GT86 a hit a kerb at speed - subframe bent but chassis fine - it was far more than 20mph though... Total claim was £2,800 including one wheel.

 

[Nickfrog]

Do I smell a Chassis/Powertrain Engineer

I had a shower this morning, despite being French. Not an engineer but I worked in motorsport for a while. Where we do bend things !

 

[SRB93]

I had a shower this morning, despite being French. Not an engineer but I worked in motorsport for a while. Where we do bend things !

I see! Kinematics was the giveaway; where as I use the term for CAD.

 

[oliquattro]

I am sure your comments have made @blackb9er feel a whole lot better. As @Happy Grumpz said all that matters is that you and your family are safe & well.

I’m not trying to make anyone feel better or worse. Just saying Quattro doesn’t help in ice at all. Literally just helps you get moving. Yes I’m happy his dog and family are OK. It doesn’t matter if you drive one mile or hundred miles, if temp is around zero then you risk writing your car off with normal tyres. I’m sure OP gets that now.

 

[SRB93]

I’m not trying to make anyone feel better or worse. Just saying Quattro doesn’t help in ice at all. Literally just helps you get moving. Yes I’m happy his dog and family are OK. It doesn’t matter if you drive one mile or hundred miles, if temp is around zero then you risk writing your car off with normal tyres. I’m sure OP gets that now.

Yep, Tryes are Tyres and the tread they come with, the driven power only turns them which is helpful in some aspects.

 

[Furryhobnob]

Glad everyone is OK pal, it's only a lump of metal at the end of the day, I've recently fitted winter tyres to my a6 avant and they really do make a massive difference in the weather we've had recently, I read your thread title and expected the car to be a mess, it's nowhere near as bad as I was expecting, I've only had 1 crash in my 14 years of driving, hit freshly laid gravel at 5am in the morning as they hadn't put the signs out yet on a national speed limit road, when I hit the gravel I literally touched the brakes and the back end went, managed to correct it once but it went again, was like being on ice, I too just let go of everything, closed my eyes, hoped it didn't hurt too much and braced for impact, went into a ditch/Bush at 45-50mph!! I bought my first audi after this which was an a3




They literally came to sweep the roads less than 5 minutes after my crash which annoyed me

Reason for Peugeots at the time was my dad is a master tech for them, so I got cheap parts and free labour, after owning German I would never go back to French though

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Syed Shah]

Glad everyone is OK pal, it's only a lump of metal at the end of the day, I've recently fitted winter tyres to my a6 avant and they really do make a massive different in the weather we've had recently, I read your thread title and expected the car to be a mess, it's nowhere near as bad as I was expecting, I've only had 1 crash in my 14 years of driving, hit freshly laid gravel at 5am in the morning as they hadn't put the signs out yet on a national speed limit road, when I hit the gravel I literally touched the brakes and the back end went, managed to correct it once but it went again, was like being on ice, I too just let go of everything, closed my eyes, hoped it didn't hurt too much and braced for impact, went into a ditch/Bush at 45-50mph!! I bought my first audi after this which was an a3




They literally came to sweep the roads less than 5 minutes after my crash which annoyed me

Reason for Peugeots at the time was my dad is a master tech for them, so I got cheap parts and free labour, after owning German I would never go back to French though

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Glad you're okay pal. Looks nasty!

 

[ScottishA4B9]

Sounds like you hit black ice. Winter tyres wouldn't have have made any difference if it was black ice.

Glad your ok and hope you get it sorted soon.

 

[holly35]

I did hold off replying, as I didn't wish to go off topic for this very unfortunate and unpleasant incident, however, and to clarify my post as stated, quattro has more traction but the same grip as a front wheel drive vehicle, tyres do not come into it. So when you hit the brakes, or go around a corner the same laws of physics applies. Plus, because of the added weight of a quattro system, you might find the car losing grip slightly earlier than a front wheel drive car with the weight attempting to push the car forward in the direction of travel.

tyres dont come into it,,,,really?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l2cMlNRX_A

 

[Bellasdad]

tyres dont come into it,,,,really?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l2cMlNRX_A

Pretty conclusive video. That's me sold. Winter tyres it is.
Nuff said.

 

[DEWCATI]

4 wheel drive and winter tyres best option to give you a chance if physics lets you..........

 

[cuke2u]

tyres dont come into it,,,,really?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l2cMlNRX_A

You completely missed the point of what I was saying and not read what I have stated fully, so to once again clarify, whatever tyres you have a quattro has no more grip than front wheel drive vehicle equipped with the same. Of course you have better traction with winters, that goes without saying but you cannot defy physics and the OP is completely in agreement with this...
More clarification:
"In automotive applications a 4wd driven vehicle will certainly (under identical and reasonable circumstances) have greater traction than a 2wd vehicle, as drive or torque which is attempting to overcome friction is split 4 way rather than just 2 (lets keep things simple here).
However come a corner and it is centrifugal force that is attempting to overcome friction and that has zilch nada nyet to do with which or how many wheels have a shaft attached to them (again, lets keep things simple here)."
FRICTION is the force that opposes motion when two surfaces rub together. It is a reaction force only. It occurs when two surfaces are in contact and a force is applied such they slide along one another. If an object has no forces causing it to try to move, there can be no friction. No applied force, no reaction force.
TRACTION can be defined as the friction between a drive wheel and the surface it moves upon. It is the amount of force a wheel can apply to a surface before it slips. A wheel will have different traction on different surfaces; as described above, the coefficient of friction is based on pairs of surfaces.
However when force is the factor, not how many driven wheels you have, say when you apply the brakes or go around a corner, then force will overide anything and cause a car with either quattro or front wheel drive, winter or summer tyres, to want to go in the direction the vehicle force is pushing it.