Judder on take off in 1st gear, Audi said its normal !!

[Leebroath]

Hi guys, just signed up to here and I've been viewing these forms ever since I purchase an Audi A4 59plate S-Line SE White last year

When we received the car we noticed it hadn't had the timing belt done so it went back in and the work was carried out for free. Ever since then the car has had a slight intermittent judder in first, it's easily noticed when sitting at a busy roundabout and you have to press the gas



We have just had the car in at the Audi garage and the tech guy went out to test the car and came back within 10minutes. The report which I have in an Email states that when the clutch is let off....ill let you read it as I've posted it below bottom of this post

Now the things is, we purchased the car 30th July 2015 and I made the call to Audi to report the problem around the 20 January. I've just been reading up on the OFT guidelines and the Consumer Rights Act. Apparently if anyone who has purchased a used car before October 2015 (as they have introduced new guidlines) then as long as the fault has happened between 30 days and before 6 months then you can have the car fixed by the dealer. It does state however the dealer is not liable for fair wear and tear, this is where I have to make a case, although the car is a 59plate its only done 38,000 miles. The judder should not be happening and this isn't normal for a car, which I think is just a bad, lame excuse from the garage!

The Audi garage did state that for them to drop the car and examine was going to cost £400 :-O

so what do you guys think I should do?


Tech Report:

The technician went out with the car for a roadtest, when pulling away from a junction in 1st gear, if there was no acceleration while releasing the clutch then slight judder was felt. Once accelerator pressed then car drives away with no judder.

Technician does not think there is any fault with clutch at this time.

For us to check wear on clutch etc, we would need to remove gearbox to inspect this. If we then found manufacturer fault with flywheel, we could then go on to your extended warranty company for authority. If only wear on clutch found then cost to replace this would be down to yourself.

The cost to remove gearbox for inspection of clutch would be down to yourselfs to authorise.

 

[razza1]

Sounds more like flywheel maybe? Just it judder slightly at turn over?

 

[Leebroath]

Hi Razza, thanks for the swift reply

I have never felt it judder at turn over no, but then I've never looked out for when I turn the ignition....or do you mean when it's ticking over, sitting still?

 

[Rich M]

I had similar on a previous car (non Audi) however I had just had both clutch and flywheel replaced. Turned out the new flywheel was warped and had to replace that again.

One thing that was checked was for any contaminants or leaks but all was ok.

Best I could describe is juddering when setting off and clearly felt through the clutch pedal.

Do you get any clutch slip while on the power i.e. flooring it?? That could be a good indicator

 

[Leebroath]

I had really bad judder with my last car which was a Ford ST and knew exactly what it was, the revs would go really high but there was no acceleration

This is different, but saying that it could be the start of things to come

Can't believ the Tech took it out for 10min and when he came back my partner was told 'it's normal for these cars to judder'

I'm offshore just now and that really got my back up!

Just the cost of £400 to drop the car is a lot of money for them to open it up and they 'could' say there's nothing wrong.....so they don't have to claim on warranty!

 

[aprilia dude]

Judder is not normal ..
And the whole cost of replacement should be down to them
So give it back to them without the 400 quid and say that it's not fit for purpose
Just saying .!!

 

[Rich M]

I had really bad judder with my last car which was a Ford ST and knew exactly what it was, the refs would go really high but there was no acceleration

This is different, but saying that it could be the start of things to come

Can't believ the Tech took it out for 10min and when he came back my partner was told 'it's normal for these cars to judder'

I'm offshore just now and that really got my back up!

Just the cost of £400 to drop the car is a lot of money for them to open it up and they 'could' say there's nothing wrong.....so they don't have to claim on warranty!

This was the same car I was referring to had an 07 Focus ST and exact same but I was on stage 2 mods which killed the clutch.

To be honest these things are hard to diagnose but obviously you know something is wrong as your the one who drives it and not the technician and it is frustrating when they say nothing is wrong.

300 to 400 quid is usually the going rate with having to drop boxes, this is what I paid on the ST and that was at an indie specialist.

Perhaps have a reputable indie specialist from this site take a look - they might offer better advice and costs

 

[razza1]

When mine went it felt like a gust of wind kept hitting the car when at a standstill

 

[Leebroath]

Urghhhhh I'm in that catch 2 situation now, I'm going to test it again when I get home and take it from there

Going to try a different driving style but I'm pretty sure it's going to go in

Just wish I knew the difference the car would make either if it was the clutch or indeed the flywheel

 

[desertstorm]

Although the car has only done 38K miles and you would expect the clutch to be good you have no idea who or how the car was driven previously.
Clutches and brakes are not covered under warranties usually as they are wear items and depending on how they are used this can have a big impact on how long they last.
Removing the gearbox is not the work of 5 minutes on these cars.

 

[razza1]

£1500 on my B7 Quattro but covered under warranty

 

[Leebroath]

Yes mate, I know it's a big job..I had it all done to my ST

I see Audi has their fixed pricing for a Clutch to be installed is £799 which includes labour and parts, think the Flywheel is in there also ? Lol

Surely the flywheel would only be about £200 as a part, so I'm guessing about a grand for it all to be done?

Remember though, I made the initial fault issue call before the 6 months was up think I can throw the sake of goods act across their way if they say no

 

[razza1]

Clutch and flywheel on my wife's qashqai went at 37k, mine went at 48k

 

[Leebroath]

Just don't make them like the good ole days

 

[razza1]

Extra profit for them I guess...

 

[WelshAudiTech]

Clutch judder is pretty common on these. Just depends on how it has been driven previously to be honest.

 

[Leebroath]

Spoke to my friend today who sold me the car at Audi

He said its not uncommon for Diesels to judder slightly

Going to take the car out when I get home again and get another feel of how hard it's juddering and take it from there

 

[Luke2.0tdi2010]

My previous '06 a4 avant had a horrendous judder in first gear, ended up getting rid of it partly because of that problem. I was so happy to take receipt of my new (to me) 2010 a4 avant, only to realise, it too had the infamous clutch judder. Warranty said the exact same thing they did to you, in your email. They will charge me for the parts and labour IF it turns out NOT to be the flywheel! I can't take that risk of having to pay out that much money! I've looked into parts £150 for clutch (LUK) and £400 for dual mass flywheel. Will get a good friend who doubles up as a mechanic to do the work.
It ruins the driving experience when this horrendous judder occurs, I look forward to the day I get it fixed.

 

[Leebroath]

Is it actually Audi parts they use or fit or do they actually just use parts like LUK?

Oh another things I have noticed when driving the car is we have problems trying to get the gear into 2nd. Doesn't happen all the time but when it does happen, you have to release again and push down on clutch, it sort of sometimes clunks into second. This downs tha open on any other gear

Could that be related hmmm

 

[Luke2.0tdi2010]

Is it actually Audi parts they use or fit or do they actually just use parts like LUK?

Audi don't make clutches, they use either LUK or sachs in their cars from factory.

 

[CHEZ]

This definitely sounds like a worn clutch and dmf.
I had a similar on my last b7 tdi so bit the bullet and changed them.
Cost about £900 iirc for luk dual mass, luk clutch and release thingy ma jig! at an indy specialist and they had my car 24hours.
Was spot on after that.
I had the similar afore mentioned gust of wind problem when stood still, and occasionally clutch judder when pulling off in first particularly the next day after a long run.
This all stopped after the replacement

 

[Leebroath]

Ok just to update this, we never had the Clutch changed in all this time but feel it now must need to be changed. We were going across the bridge in Aberdeen and came to a standstill behind a few cars leading up to a roundabout. As soon as the car in front moved, I then accelerated in first while lifting off on the Clutch, the car shuddered violently and we had no power. I had to then push the Clutch back in and again accelerate! This was when the other half was in the car so she now realised something is def wrong

Anyway, just piriced up the parts and labour at Dundee Audi

They have the Clutch changeover on a fixed price of £799
On top of that is the Flywheel at £848
And Labour on top is £243

A grand total of £1890

Going to out Garage we know will be a hell of a lot cheaper and I can purchase the parts from Carparts4less and the Clutch kit,Flywheel and bolts come in around £600, add the labour on top and we will probably be about a grand

Must say though there has not been any increase in revs but only the juddering which makes me think the Flywheel is a fault

 

[Chris90]

Have to say, they had your eyes out with that. A clutch change at £799 and the DMF is only 6-10 bolts extra whilst everything is out so £850 for the part and £250 labour is taking the biscuit. Parts are probably only £500-600 and getting a box out is only 1 hour or 2 job for a competant mechanic, same for refitting.

I can get mine to judder when warm, but only time its ever been iffy was slow moving traffic up a bank where speed is borderline between stood still and clutch fully out so around 5-6mph. But even then, after a few miles driving, its back to normal and the initial judder on initial pulling off goes.

 

[Leebroath]

So do you think they were taking the p***

I'm not getting it all changed from Audi anyway, it's getting done by my local Indy for more than half the cost including labour and using LUK parts

 

[Chris90]

Id have said so. Ring TPS and see how much a clutch and flywheel is. Changing is only about 5-6hours labour even for a incompentant mechanic.

 

[Leebroath]

TPS ?

Trade Part Specialist

 

[Chris90]

Yup

 

[Leebroath]

Reply back from them

Hi Lee

The prices quoted are excluding VAT

If you go ahead with an order I would need to know if LUK or Sachs parts have been fitted to your vehicle.

The only way to find out is to inspect the old parts.

Lead time for order is 1 > 2 working days.

Flywheel, Sachs 698.80

LUK 651.10

Bolts 1.29 each

Clutch kit 2 piece, Sachs 201.80

LUK 183.97

Surcharge applied to old clutch units 30.98 which is refundable if returned in original box within 30 days.

Bearing + sleeve, 53.74

Regards
Steve

 

[Meemo]

Mine has had a judder pulling off in first intermitently since the day i picked it up 4 years ago, tbh it doesnt happen often but when it does it no longer bothers me and is more likely to happen in hot summer weather after being sat in traffic, is just the flywheel as far as I am aware and has never progressed worse in the 4 years, fairly sure it is quite common on this shape.
Not the answer you want but might put your mind at ease a little.

 

[Leebroath]

The car is booked in already mate, it's going to get done and I'll report back if it does indeed fix the issue

 

[Leebroath]

Well today we dropped the car off at 9am and we were told to call back at 4:45pm

They have managed to change over the Clutch and the Flywheel but they haven't finished because one of the bolts to fit the CAT back has double threaded and they are now thinking of chasing the thread

Have to call back tomorrow at 11am

 

[Kevin_w90]

Just had my a4 (2013) back from warranty job for a judder in first after about 60 miles of driving. New clutch and flywheel replaced under the used warranty I got when I got the car. Grease had been leaking onto the clutch plate from the centre flywheel bearing and worn out the outer edge of the clutch plate totally. First audi dealership told me it was normal and the second dealer agreed it wasn't right. Glad i had it done, car feels brilliant to when I bought it. Well worth pursuing with the dealers

Thanks

 

[Leebroath]

Good news mate, I'm going to post up some photos and videos soon

Photos show exactly where the threads were busy, I've just been down to the Garage, the mechanic was good enough to take me down and show me exactly what has happened. Took some good photos and I also asked, due to the judder, think they Flywheel was the root cause. There is 2 videos of the new flywheel and old sitting on the bench/floor, the old one wobbles and shakes, the new one there is hardly any play.

 

[Leebroath]

Well worth pursuing with the dealers

I contacted Aberdeen and they said it was normal, then I took the car to Dundee and a tech went out in the car, he said he felt a slight judder but went away.

All in I'm going to be about £900 including the new part which they need to purchase from Audi in Dundee (photos coming soon)

Not bad compared to Audi ridiculous pricing of £1890 to do the exact same work, this was Dundee + labour rates, I would hate to have spoken to Aberdeen as they cost more

 

[Leebroath]

 

[Leebroath]

Ok above guys, are the photos taken today from the garage

1. Cat box (I think) in vice
2. Thread where it had double threaded when the guys unscrewed the bolt
3. My Audi pipe bit on bench
4. Pipe bit with the end threads totally mashed (garage had a photo of the pipe and the angle it had originally been screwed in at)
5. Pipe taken from another car and what my one should have looked like
6/7. Couple of ore snaps

I am getting the videos sent of the Flywheel but haven't had a word back from him on FB yet

Apparently these boxes cost around £1600 from Audi or £6-700 third party, so they are now waiting on a new pipe to be delivered from Audi on Tuesday

 

[Leebroath]

Video to be added, managed to get it done

Flywheel old, notice the amount of play and clanking

http://vid1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj486/leebroath/IMG_0587_zps4dta37k3.mp4

Brand new LUK Flywheel,

http://vid1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj486/leebroath/IMG_0588_zps3787l25i.mp4

 

[Sematic]

Had this issue on my 13 plate a4 2.0tdi sline. It drove me nuts. it had me questioning the way i drove, how i leave the car in gear when parked. Everything. Audi wouldn't touch it stating that its a wear and tear item, i had owned the car from 12 months old with 6000k previous miles.

Traded in for brand new 15 plate 2.0tdi BE+ (not because of the judder but it played a part in the decision) and all was well until 6000/7000k miles when the judder presented itself again. At this point i knew it wasnt my driving as id been more than extra careful with the clutch. the judder wasnt as bad as the 13 plate a4 but bad enough to spoil the driving experience.

i reported it and they agreed to inspect when i had my first service at 19k... service happened and they told me that to take a look i would have to fork out to drop the gearbox. Something which i disagreed to and insisted that if a technician thinks its fine after a test drive then i will not moan any more. Took a technician out who observed my driving then had a spin himself. He agreed there is definitely something wrong with it. Booked it in for replacement clutch kit.

Dropped my car off for said replacement clutch kit and the dealer knew nothing about the booking, insisted that the car has done too much mileage for replacement clutch kit (20k). i kicked up a massive fuss as i booked time off work, wasnt happy with the car and told them if its not fixed i will never buy from this dealership again and never buy another audi. Mercedes across the road were more than happy to take my custom... Due to being a loyal customer and the confusment of the booking they agreed to drop the gearbox out and replace if it needs it.

They had my car for 3 days, stated that they have dropped the gearbox but haven't found any faults. They told me though that they can "make it faulty" and replace under warranty. The guy on the phone told me that in this case it will be how they word it and the pen is mightier than the sword. I told him to go ahead.

it took them 12 days. Every day was a different excuse. waiting for the part, waiting for delivery, mechanic availability. In the end they told me that once the part had been received only the head mechanic is skilled enough to replace the clutch kit hence why it took 12 days due to his availability.

When i eventually got the car back it was back to perfect. No more judder. since this i have done 4k miles on the new clutch kit and all is well.

I think the reason i got a replacement clutch kit in the end was the poor customer service combined with the threat of losing my custom at this particular dealer as i had 2 previous cars off them. Also the fact the guy was fed up of my complaining and bodged the warranty replacement notes to allow it. They probably took their time to try and annoy me but i was cruising around in a new a4 courtesy car so i wasnt that bothered.

Hope all goes well for you. apologies for war and peace.

 

[Leebroath]

Hi mate, did you just get the Clutch Kit changed over?

I'm led to believe, now it's entirely up to yourself, but 'standard procedure' is to replace the Flywheel at the same time, as you're in the guts of the gearbox anyway

 

[Sematic]

I will have to get the paperwork out but I think it was a clutch kit and flywheel replacement.