JB4 times and testing

eleven_

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I finally got around to installing the JB4 last week and didn't hesitate to jump into testing it on some higher maps after some initial logging.

I thought the install would be much harder but as a couple others have pointed out, there is a grommet next to the steering column to the left on RHD cars that will get you straight across the firewall. From there I ran it behind the heat shielding and out somewhere near the jump start terminals. Install is so clean, even with the engine cover off, you're likely to miss it unless you're specifically looking for it. The JB4 box just sits neatly on its flat side next to the intake. I stuck some furniture rubber protectors to the underside and between the intake to dampen any vibrations or anywhere there is a chance of rubbing or touching.

Loaded and tested MAP3 which is recommended for pump fuel which adds a few psi and some timing (indirectly). Logs were good so I jumped up to start using it for the reason I bought it

Maps 4&5 are recommended with higher octane fuels and I usually run an e30 mix anyway. Loaded Map5. Could really feel the difference now throughout the rev range but mainly mid-range.

I'm not a horsepower guy, I like functionality so I measure performance at a strip, track or going shopping . 1/4 mile didn't lie and I managed a 11.09s run, down from 11.34s.

Boost was still very conservative around 20-21psi peak and 18psi by redline, timing managed on this fuel is very health to say the least. Not too shabby overall.

Custom MAP6 is where it's at. Still a work in progress but a 10.92s run with a glitchy gear change and I let off before end of run. Boost level is still not where it can be and keep in mind this is with OPF's and cat still in place. There is definitely a 10.8s run in it as is but I'm feeling a 10.7s run soon if able to work through some correction factors.
 

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JB4 inst0

JB4 inst1

JB4 inst2
 
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8YARWY

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I finally got around to installing the JB4 last week and didn't hesitate to jump into testing it on some higher maps after some initial logging.

I thought the install would be much harder but as a couple others have pointed out, there is a grommet next to the steering column to the left on RHD cars that will get you straight across the firewall. From there I ran it behind the heat shielding and out somewhere near the jump start terminals. Install is so clean, even with the engine cover off, you're likely to miss it unless you're specifically looking for it. The JB4 box just sits neatly on its flat side next to the intake. I stuck some furniture rubber protectors to the underside and between the intake to dampen any vibrations or anywhere there is a chance of rubbing or touching.

Loaded and tested MAP3 which is recommended for pump fuel which adds a few psi and some timing (indirectly). Logs were good so I jumped up to start using it for the reason I bought it

Maps 4&5 are recommended with higher octane fuels and I usually run an e30 mix anyway. Loaded Map5. Could really feel the difference now throughout the rev range but mainly mid-range.

I'm not a horsepower guy, I like functionality so I measure performance at a strip, track or going shopping . 1/4 mile didn't lie and I managed a 11.09s run, down from 11.34s.

Boost was still very conservative around 20-21psi peak and 18psi by redline, timing managed on this fuel is very health to say the least. Not too shabby overall.

Custom MAP6 is where it's at. Still a work in progress but a 10.92s run with a glitchy gear change and I let off before end of run. Boost level is still not where it can be and keep in mind this is with OPF's and cat still in place. There is definitely a 10.8s run in it as is but I'm feeling a 10.7s run soon if able to work through some correction factors.

Is yours an OPF car ?

What boost settings / duty bias you running ?


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eleven_

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Is yours an OPF car ?

What boost settings / duty bias you running ?


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Yes OPF unfortunately, I have a straight pipe after the cat and OPF’s though which will help.

I probably won’t quote settings because I have found for example that even if all boost & wgdc are the same, if another setting, such as FF, is different then your whole map will be different. Not ideal changing one setting and going from 23psi to 30psi!!

I have much to learn and I’m sure there are plenty out there that know what they’re talking about.

I’m trying to get a hold of logs from some tuned stage 1/1+/2 daza’s with stock turbo to see what to expect number wise when it comes to boost and timing through rev range.

Currently struggling trying to get rid of some bad boost spike between gears. Seems during gear change boost keeps rising and by the time is changes gears boost is above targets.
 

8YARWY

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Yes OPF unfortunately, I have a straight pipe after the cat and OPF’s though which will help.

I probably won’t quote settings because I have found for example that even if all boost & wgdc are the same, if another setting, such as FF, is different then your whole map will be different. Not ideal changing one setting and going from 23psi to 30psi!!

I have much to learn and I’m sure there are plenty out there that know what they’re talking about.

I’m trying to get a hold of logs from some tuned stage 1/1+/2 daza’s with stock turbo to see what to expect number wise when it comes to boost and timing through rev range.

Currently struggling trying to get rid of some bad boost spike between gears. Seems during gear change boost keeps rising and by the time is changes gears boost is above targets.

I’ve got some logs from my Daza.


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eleven_

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I'll quote these duty bias numbers from the JB4 website and obviously editing the map 6 boost psi numbers to suite you goals. As for the settings in the middle I would be cautious with those. I'm not sure if these suite the analogue versions, I have a feeling from testing that these may possibly be SENT settings. Waiting to hear back on that because there's definitely a discrepancy.
RS38 YBase settings
 

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I’ve got some logs from my Daza.


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Not sure if you're happy to share these at all, if you are I'd love to have a squiz!
 

8YARWY

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I'll quote these duty bias numbers from the JB4 website and obviously editing the map 6 boost psi numbers to suite you goals. As for the settings in the middle I would be cautious with those. I'm not sure if these suite the analogue versions, I have a feeling from testing that these may possibly be SENT settings. Waiting to hear back on that because there's definitely a discrepancy.
View attachment 265452

Different than mine.


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betaone68

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I also installed Jb4 but my goal is much more modest . I would like to use map 3 safely every day using 98 octane gasoline . After email exchange with George from Burger I understood that BMS is only needed if you want to use map higher than 3 . For this reason I uninstalled it . I had instability problems with app . Occasionally the phone would not display parameters retrieved via OBD or would remain fixed . Reading log results I found that target boost increment varies from pedal percentage . Reading log with map 0 shows that ECU intentionally drops boost between 3,200 and 3,800 rpm . Jb4 slightly reduces this difference but it still remains noticeable .
Making comparison between boost logged map 0 and boost logged map 3 I found an average real boost of 0.2 PSI .
However, I could not find a parameter on the Jb4 logs that indicates percentage ECU correction to contain detonation principles . Usually when fitting an add-on module it is the first parameter you check .
Question to those more experienced than me on Jb4 is it possible to check on the logs this parameter ?

FYI I installed it using double sided velcro so .
 

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eleven_

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I also installed Jb4 but my goal is much more modest . I would like to use map 3 safely every day using 98 octane gasoline . After email exchange with George from Burger I understood that BMS is only needed if you want to use map higher than 3 . For this reason I uninstalled it . I had instability problems with app . Occasionally the phone would not display parameters retrieved via OBD or would remain fixed . Reading log results I found that target boost increment varies from pedal percentage . Reading log with map 0 shows that ECU intentionally drops boost between 3,200 and 3,800 rpm . Jb4 slightly reduces this difference but it still remains noticeable .
Making comparison between boost logged map 0 and boost logged map 3 I found an average real boost of 0.2 PSI .
However, I could not find a parameter on the Jb4 logs that indicates percentage ECU correction to contain detonation principles . Usually when fitting an add-on module it is the first parameter you check .
Question to those more experienced than me on Jb4 is it possible to check on the logs this parameter ?

FYI I installed it using double sided velcro so .
Avg Ign is shows timing being pulled due to detonation/fuel JB4 logs this you just need to select it to view.

I found out when initially logging that boost on lower maps may not be much more than stock levels but timing will be increased, giving you the extra power. Obviously depending on fuel octane you can increase both timing and boost to where the car feels comfortable.

I haven't had your connection issues but I have heard of the bluetooth module becoming faulty. Also check your bluetooth transmitter isn't being interfered with by some other electronics or metal around it.

Correct, between 3200-3800rpm boost and timing do drop and then it corrects upward, this would be the stock tune for everyone. You will be able to tune this out in map6 by adjusting boost targets at those rpms.
 

betaone68

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Avg Ign is shows timing being pulled due to detonation/fuel JB4 logs this you just need to select it to view.

I found out when initially logging that boost on lower maps may not be much more than stock levels but timing will be increased, giving you the extra power. Obviously depending on fuel octane you can increase both timing and boost to where the car feels comfortable.

I haven't had your connection issues but I have heard of the bluetooth module becoming faulty. Also check your bluetooth transmitter isn't being interfered with by some other electronics or metal around it.

Correct, between 3200-3800rpm boost and timing do drop and then it corrects upward, this would be the stock tune for everyone. You will be able to tune this out in map6 by adjusting boost targets at those rpms.
Unfortunately, it seems to me that the AVG- ING parameter is not analyzed in the logs. It is strangely always at 0. Strange that Burger did not select it as one of the parameters to be analyzed in the logs.
On my logs the following parameters are recorded.
rpm
ecu_psi
target
boost
pedal
iat
throttle
ign_1
trims
meth
afr
clock
map
afr2
waterf
boost2
mph

all other parameters report fixed value 0
 

eleven_

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Unfortunately, it seems to me that the AVG- ING parameter is not analyzed in the logs. It is strangely always at 0. Strange that Burger did not select it as one of the parameters to be analyzed in the logs.
On my logs the following parameters are recorded.
rpm
ecu_psi
target
boost
pedal
iat
throttle
ign_1
trims
meth
afr
clock
map
afr2
waterf
boost2
mph

all other parameters report fixed value 0
May be right, mine has been 0 but pretty sure Ave Ign will show 0 until timing is pulled and I haven't had timing pulled yet.
 

8YARWY

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I also installed Jb4 but my goal is much more modest . I would like to use map 3 safely every day using 98 octane gasoline . After email exchange with George from Burger I understood that BMS is only needed if you want to use map higher than 3 . For this reason I uninstalled it . I had instability problems with app . Occasionally the phone would not display parameters retrieved via OBD or would remain fixed . Reading log results I found that target boost increment varies from pedal percentage . Reading log with map 0 shows that ECU intentionally drops boost between 3,200 and 3,800 rpm . Jb4 slightly reduces this difference but it still remains noticeable .
Making comparison between boost logged map 0 and boost logged map 3 I found an average real boost of 0.2 PSI .
However, I could not find a parameter on the Jb4 logs that indicates percentage ECU correction to contain detonation principles . Usually when fitting an add-on module it is the first parameter you check .
Question to those more experienced than me on Jb4 is it possible to check on the logs this parameter ?

FYI I installed it using double sided velcro so .

Have you sent all logs and your concerns to George ?
Best way really I’d say.


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eleven_

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There are a few that don't log for me like gear, FF, FP H, FP L, load, oil temp and trans temp. That's a lot. I wonder if these log on the SENT versions.
 

betaone68

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Yes I sent log to George and he replied that Jb4 was working correctly .
George confirmed me that not all parameters are logged ( among them certainly oil temperature ) . The reason he gave me is that it was done to get more accurate logging of important parameters .
I really believe that Avg _ign is not activated . On my previous RS3 8 V even with original map and using 98 octane gasoline I was experiencing -3% corrections . Therefore it seems strange to me that on the 8Y there are no corrections .
I don't think there is any difference on the sent versions. They differ only to read boost pressure from sensors which have different technology . All other data are collected from OBD socket.
 

eleven_

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Yes I sent log to George and he replied that Jb4 was working correctly .
George confirmed me that not all parameters are logged ( among them certainly oil temperature ) . The reason he gave me is that it was done to get more accurate logging of important parameters .
I really believe that Avg _ign is not activated . On my previous RS3 8 V even with original map and using 98 octane gasoline I was experiencing -3% corrections . Therefore it seems strange to me that on the 8Y there are no corrections .
I don't think there is any difference on the sent versions. They differ only to read boost pressure from sensors which have different technology . All other data are collected from OBD socket.
I've had cars in the past where OBD pins for ROW and US differed. George can confirm but has not done so as yet.

I run e30 so not surprising there are no corrections, yet. Even if Adv Ign did not log, you will see from timing being retarded, most likely prevalent using 98 or if-you-dare 95.

Yeah the logging resolution is very average but full points for even having this option.
 

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Yes I sent log to George and he replied that Jb4 was working correctly .
George confirmed me that not all parameters are logged ( among them certainly oil temperature ) . The reason he gave me is that it was done to get more accurate logging of important parameters .
I really believe that Avg _ign is not activated . On my previous RS3 8 V even with original map and using 98 octane gasoline I was experiencing -3% corrections . Therefore it seems strange to me that on the 8Y there are no corrections .
I don't think there is any difference on the sent versions. They differ only to read boost pressure from sensors which have different technology . All other data are collected from OBD socket.

Same for us analogue users
4c44410bfa2e8942a15fbadede35feec.png



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8YARWY

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I’ve checked some old 8V Daza logs and Av_Ign is zero.
On individual cylinders there are some pulls of 1/2/3 etc momentarily at higher rpms.
This was back in the day when I only used Shell Vpower though which has been known not to always be the 99 it should be.


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eleven_

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I’ve checked some old 8V Daza logs and Av_Ign is zero.
On individual cylinders there are some pulls of 1/2/3 etc momentarily at higher rpms.
This was back in the day when I only used Shell Vpower though which has been known not to always be the 99 it should be.


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I've just checked my logs and it's either zero or sometimes goes straight to 43.8 and sits there, just as in your log.
 

betaone68

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I also found AVG -Ign value in some logs 0 in others 43.8. I really think it is not a parameter handled by Jb4.
On April 12 I will have miltek 200 cell downpipe installed without opf . I will use OPF emulators from the Italian company Seletron which seem to be effective ( there are now at least15 RS3 8Y that are using this solution without having problems with dashboard warning lights on ) . At that time I will also try cars on dyno . I will be able to objectively verify Jb4 effectiveness .
 

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I also found AVG -Ign value in some logs 0 in others 43.8. I really think it is not a parameter handled by Jb4.
On April 12 I will have miltek 200 cell downpipe installed without opf . I will use OPF emulators from the Italian company Seletron which seem to be effective ( there are now at least15 RS3 8Y that are using this solution without having problems with dashboard warning lights on ) . At that time I will also try cars on dyno . I will be able to objectively verify Jb4 effectiveness .
Do you happen to have a link to the Seletron emulator or the price? I'd love to do this until the ECU is unlocked and I can get the OPFs mapped out.
 

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I also found AVG -Ign value in some logs 0 in others 43.8. I really think it is not a parameter handled by Jb4.
On April 12 I will have miltek 200 cell downpipe installed without opf . I will use OPF emulators from the Italian company Seletron which seem to be effective ( there are now at least15 RS3 8Y that are using this solution without having problems with dashboard warning lights on ) . At that time I will also try cars on dyno . I will be able to objectively verify Jb4 effectiveness .

Coming from a JB4 8V RS3 the logging parameters are a bit different on the VAG cars. Ign1 is average timing and Ign2-5 is adaption. The adaption does not necessarily relate to knock. When it does knock it will decrease Ign1 in steps of three at high rpm. We only get 95ron here so its a fine line when using map 3 or higher but the ECU does iron out the timing. 8Y does seem more tolerant though to lower octane than 8V most likely due to running a bit richer. Overall am satisfied with the JB4 on the 8Y.
 

betaone68

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Do you happen to have a link to the Seletron emulator or the price? I'd love to do this until the ECU is unlocked and I can get the OPFs mapped out.
I will have downpipe and emulators installed by BIESSE RAGING BERGAMO https://www.facebook.com/biesseracingbergamo/?locale=it_IT .
See these links their videos posted on instagram of RS3 8Y modified by them .



I am sure they use emulators supplied by Seletron company . I personally talked to an owner RS3 8Y modified by them and he confirmed that no warning light ever came on and car never went into limp mode. I will also do some troubleshooting with OBD Eleven.
However, the Seletron company strangely does not post anything on their site about OPF emulators for RS3 8Y .
Try contacting them by email.
I when I do installation I can ask that there are also foreign RS3 owners interested in this modification and if they are interested in some way to export it .
 

eleven_

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I will have downpipe and emulators installed by BIESSE RAGING BERGAMO https://www.facebook.com/biesseracingbergamo/?locale=it_IT .
See these links their videos posted on instagram of RS3 8Y modified by them .



I am sure they use emulators supplied by Seletron company . I personally talked to an owner RS3 8Y modified by them and he confirmed that no warning light ever came on and car never went into limp mode. I will also do some troubleshooting with OBD Eleven.
However, the Seletron company strangely does not post anything on their site about OPF emulators for RS3 8Y .
Try contacting them by email.
I when I do installation I can ask that there are also foreign RS3 owners interested in this modification and if they are interested in some way to export it .

I emailed them a few days ago, no response yet.

Looks like things are moving forward with the 8Y, so that's promising.
 

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Seletron Performance got back to me today. They said their OPF emulator is currently being tested and they will be releasing it in about 2 weeks. if all goes. well.
 

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Seletron Performance got back to me today. They said their OPF emulator is currently being tested and they will be releasing it in about 2 weeks. if all goes. well.
That's great, thanks very much for doing the legwork!
 

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Seletron Performance got back to me today. They said their OPF emulator is currently being tested and they will be releasing it in about 2 weeks. if all goes. well.
Perfect timing.

I guess the problem will be chopping out the OPFs and putting them back come resale so it's not obvious they were ever removed?
 

8YARWY

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Perfect timing.

I guess the problem will be chopping out the OPFs and putting them back come resale so it's not obvious they were ever removed?

I asked Audi about this.

They said they are checking things like this on trade ins now.


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I asked Audi about this.

They said they are checking things like this on trade ins now.


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I imagine they would be, probably got 'bit' one too many times with a trade in without cats or particulte filters
 

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I imagine they would be, probably got 'bit' one too many times with a trade in without cats or particulte filters

The guy I know said they were being stung a lot on things like this.
One S6 cost them 6k because someone butchered the exhaust putting in an X pipe.
They only found out when putting an MOT on it prior to sale.

He said clamping the OPF’s back in won’t wash either as this means they can’t warrant the car.


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I honestly don't think installing a 200 downpipe without opf is a problem when reselling car . If you sell it to a private person it is an added value ( who doesn't want an RS3 with an exhaust sound worthy of the 5 cylinder engine ) . On the other hand, if you don't want to complicate your life by selling it to a private party just have the original downpipe remounted by removing emualators . The modification is perfectly reversible .
 

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I honestly don't think installing a 200 downpipe without opf is a problem when reselling car . If you sell it to a private person it is an added value ( who doesn't want an RS3 with an exhaust sound worthy of the 5 cylinder engine ) . On the other hand, if you don't want to complicate your life by selling it to a private party just have the original downpipe remounted by removing emualators . The modification is perfectly reversible .

Lol reversible yes, OEM reversible….nope.

Not unless the whole downpipe including The main cat & OPFs are removed and a ‘substitute’ entire front section sans OPF’s is used.
However no owner is going to buy a full front section to swap in and out, given the work involved.

I think a lot of second owners will get a nasty surprise come MOT time if they haven’t noticed this mod at the time of purchase.


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And now on recent news from the colonial settlement of Western Australia…we don’t have an MOT No inspections. Unless you’re pulled over by the police and they visually see something out of vehicle standards regulations. May happen if you drive a bunky 1985 Mitsubishi Magna rustbucket with a crack across your windscreen and half your exhaust missing but I still see plenty of those on our roads here.

Audi engine warranty on the other hand will fly out the window if picked up on. So may as well wait till proper tune is released and you want stage 2+

At this stage with what I’m getting out of the JB4, I’m content with leaving OPF and cats on. I went with straight piping the exhaust post OPF and it gives me the full engine note I’m after. OEM exhaust can simply slide back in if needed and flaps reconnected.
 

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Lol reversible yes, OEM reversible….nope.

Not unless the whole downpipe including The main cat & OPFs are removed and a ‘substitute’ entire front section sans OPF’s is used.
However no owner is going to buy a full front section to swap in and out, given the work involved.

I think a lot of second owners will get a nasty surprise come MOT time if they haven’t noticed this mod at the time of purchase.


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Sons Golf R springs to mind, It magically passed it's MOT with the previous owner without cats, but oddly this year it failed with the same exhaust on :tearsofjoy:
 

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And now on recent news from the colonial settlement of Western Australia…we don’t have an MOT No inspections. Unless you’re pulled over by the police and they visually see something out of vehicle standards regulations. May happen if you drive a bunky 1985 Mitsubishi Magna rustbucket with a crack across your windscreen and half your exhaust missing but I still see plenty of those on our roads here.

Audi engine warranty on the other hand will fly out the window if picked up on. So may as well wait till proper tune is released and you want stage 2+

At this stage with what I’m getting out of the JB4, I’m content with leaving OPF and cats on. I went with straight piping the exhaust post OPF and it gives me the full engine note I’m after. OEM exhaust can simply slide back in if needed and flaps reconnected.
What did you go for to straight pipe it?

Would a sports catted downpipe with opf delete not pass an mot either in uk?
 

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What did you go for to straight pipe it?

Would a sports catted downpipe with opf delete not pass an mot either in uk?
I went down to my mates exhaust shot where he fabbed it up under the car, welded it up and I sorted the emulators for the flap motors. Sounds about the same as a cat and OPF delete exhaust with a muffler. Mrs can again hear me around the corner on the way home
 

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Lol reversible yes, OEM reversible….nope.

Not unless the whole downpipe including The main cat & OPFs are removed and a ‘substitute’ entire front section sans OPF’s is used.
However no owner is going to buy a full front section to swap in and out, given the work involved.

I think a lot of second owners will get a nasty surprise come MOT time if they haven’t noticed this mod at the time of purchase.


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Is the front section you're talking about not basically what Milltek and other exhaust manufacturers sell as the full downpipe? Meaning it would be a case of just swapping it out without actually modifying the OEM exhaust so it can be slotted back in?

I know that makes it sound easy and it's likely a couple hours work to get done, but I'm just meaning that there's nothing butchered on the OEM system. Unless I'm missing something about how these downpipes are installed?
 

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Is the front section you're talking about not basically what Milltek and other exhaust manufacturers sell as the full downpipe? Meaning it would be a case of just swapping it out without actually modifying the OEM exhaust so it can be slotted back in?

I know that makes it sound easy and it's likely a couple hours work to get done, but I'm just meaning that there's nothing butchered on the OEM system. Unless I'm missing something about how these downpipes are installed?

The front section is primary cat and OPFs all in one piece, so cutting into this anywhere will stand out like a sore thumb.

As you say there's nothing stopping you removing the complete front section though, quite a bit of work involved though in swapping it all.

If you had to go into to Audi for any reason they'd flag this up on their Audi cam straight way, so you'd be kissing your engine warranty goodbye.
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garethdj

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What did you go for to straight pipe it?

Would a sports catted downpipe with opf delete not pass an mot either in uk?

No, OPF removal is an MOT failure.


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