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Its turning intoo a track car ....

scotty_24 Jul 19, 2016

  1. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Ah 100% check is sensible!

    The meth mix I used was 50/50 so il take your reccomendation of 80/20 more meth to try and combat the timing.
    Inlet temps look good ! 32 degrees at full chat and outside today in sunny newcastle it's 24 degrees outside!

    Thanks for taking the time to talk to me today and for looking on here to help me, much appreciated.


    Again thanks for your help today Nick, of it wasn't for people such as you and Bill I would be lost.

    100% it will have been living on the EGT zone.
    It was a blistering hot day on track and the stupid puny hybrid K04 I suspect just turned into a heat pump.

    Talking to Bill, and credit to his mapping, it's pulled timing, dumped fuel and this explains the "hic" I could feel.

    Accelerating through 3rd, 4 th and finally into 5th the EGT must have been astronomical.

    This also explains how on a lower boost map the "hic" in 5th didn't happen.


    So

    Next is new EIX plugs with a smaller gap, 80/20 meth, an order to Bill for more DS3000, and to book Cadwell Park and pray for cold weather !
     
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  3. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    track use, circuit not straight line stuff, is very very very very very hard on hardware........ Less is often more/better for sustained battering.

    you can only "protect" so much... retard timing more, egt's climb, increase fueling, power drops.... etc etc
     
  4. daz-20vt

    daz-20vt Well-Known Member

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    Interesting Paul I had the exact same misfire and I'm sure it was in 5th !!!


    Glad you're still having fun mate hope you're well
     
  5. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Yup. I cant help but thinking that a K04 hrbird isnt the best for track as it gets too hot too quick.

    Im having fun, but im soo torn between keep persuing with it or cut my losses and buy a clio.
    The lads I do trackdays with have been there seen it and done it with turbo'd cars, and have all settled on Clios.
    They are soo quick on track, they are pennies to fix if something goes wrong.

    I dont know. Ive put a potential for sale on facebook, but im soo undecided.

    The S3 needs coilovers (decent ones at that) and a cage if im keeping it.

    Heads up my a£5e
     
  6. SamHendry

    SamHendry Active Member

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    How does a n/a Clio compare to your s3 on track?
     
  7. SamHendry

    SamHendry Active Member

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    I'm interested as my set up is quite the same as you.
     
  8. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    turn it onto lower map. k04 = heat pumps
     
  9. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    In the corners, they "feel faster" as the clios like a little go cart.

    Straight line, obvliously the S3 is quicker.
    But bang for buck, 182/172 all day as overall lap pace is crazy and an engine is £200.

    Map 3 I still had the legs on a clio 197 (newer shape) around the track, glued to him untill he finally moved out the way.

    Yup this is it.

    Map 3 was amazing on track but on the straights it obviously doesnt feel as quick as map1 or 2, however pulled stong as obviously egt wasnt kicking in!

    Map 1 was amazing for a few laps, then the little hic started to happen that we have now found is the EGR kicking in and timing being retarded.


    At knockhill last year I used map 3 all day , as knockhill is such a small track theres no need for long straights power.
    It was just at croft this time I was like "lets give it a go" and put map 1 on, to try and get a faster lap with more boost.


    I think the fix is as you say, lower the map, have more reliable constant power.
    Map 3 also means that the engine and turbo arent being pushed to their limit ... another thing im scared about on track.


    I think its time to search for some decent coilovers, now my drivings getting better, the eibachs are givig me too much roll.
     
    SamHendry likes this.
  10. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Cadwell Park track day booked 13 July

    Pray for cold weather for me

    I'm going to take Bills advice and run map 3 with 80/20 meth to combat the EGT and the knock
     
  11. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Well last night, I had a dream I was at @badger5 with my car on the dyno after a Badget build...... Foresight to things to come?


    I keep thinking about a Clio for track, me and my bro going halfs the actual car will only cost £600 each. Few hundred in mods and i would have myseld a sound little track car.

    However, ive had the S3 7 years and I cant let it go. I dont think I could.

    I need help.

    However, Ive always wanted to do Cadwell, and the S3 has so far been smashed arounf the Nurburgring, Croft twice, Knockhill and now Cadwell in 2 weeks.


    Plans for cadwell are a fresh set of plugs, 5w50 fresh comma oil and go baby go with Bills reccomended 80% meth mix to try and combat the track temps and knock.

    I love this little car, but cant help thinking a NA French Piece Of 5h!t (FPOS) would be a better track car.

    Opinions?
     
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  13. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    weight is the enemy
     
  14. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%. Mines got buckets and no rear seats. Could go wild stripping it, but its still lugging around a rear subframe and Diff.

    My best mate has a yellow ibiza cupra. And we all know how well Cupras can be made for track dont we Bill.

    The little clios you can nearly pick them up. They go well for 160 ish bhp (they never make the claimed 172/182 )

    Ive driven a mates around Blyton park. Was like a glorified go cart.


    GEt Cadwell over as Ive always wanted the S3 round it, and decisions to make I think.
     
  15. Rainbird

    Rainbird Active Member

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    I've been having dirty Clio thoughts recently - If it wasn't such a pain to squeeze a 1.8t and decent turbo setup into one I'd have hunted one down already...
     
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  16. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    I can just keep the S3 in the garage its doing no harm.

    Been broken soo much its used to being in there anyways lol
     
  17. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    So after my little wobble yesterday and a head massage from a few mates and @Prawn ive decided it would be silly to sell.
    I posted in a few facegroup groups and the consensus was £4-£5k which Im more than happy with. At least I know the old girl is still worth something.

    So as far as keeping it, few reasons

    1) I know its been built right and I know all the best parts I can afford have been used. Nothing is an unknown.
    2) Its been mapped by the best
    3) Theres too much time and effort been put into it
    4) Its got future potential for even more power with a BT
    5) Its close to being a good track car

    Point 5 leads me on to what Prawn reccomends, its a cage and decent coilovers away from the next step in terms of track car.


    I think this is the direction its going


    So. Cadwell 2 weeks tomorrrow.

    Let the prep begin. Oil, filter, meth, plugs and a good check over before I go. Possibly a new set of DS3000 from Badger5

    In terms of Cages, any reccomendations for someone to make a cage up north? Im based in Newcastle, but will travel for the best (like going to Badger5 for mapping 8 hour round trip)
     
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  18. shaunevo6

    shaunevo6 Active Member

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  19. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    There's a lot that can be done with the suspension for not too much money.

    Do you currently have adjustable top mounts?
    If it's not a daily then no reason not to go all out and add mk2 TT ball joints too and aim for - 3 degrees front camber. This allows you to use top mounts to max out the caster, preferably with some eccentric Bushes in the wishbones to gain another degree.

    Couple that lot with some half decent coilovers and proper spring rates, and the difference will be monumental
     
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  20. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Standard top mounts with powerflex bushes currently.
    Geo is 1.5 degrees up front and 1 degree rear (fairly standard)


    Eibach springs, koni shocks and eibach front and rear anti roll bars 26mmF 24mmR


    I think Decent Coilovers like BC etc may be the next logical step along with some silver project top mounts?
     
  21. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Very standard on the geo front yea, there is SO much more to come from that with very little spend.


    When you get some decent coilovers id swap back to a standard front arb. The 26mm is doing you no favours at all for front end grip. Proper spring rates will take care of body roll too.

    Depending on budget, consider Gaz over BC. Theyre probably not a million miles apart quality wise, but they are rebuildable in the UK, will build to your chosen rates, and can be revalved easily too. I'm yet to try mine but I've got high hopes
     
  22. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    I know mate the anti roll bars i put on when i first got the car.
    The locating collars were knackered so I thought ah well excust to upgrade. This was 7 years ago when i had no idea!

    Yeah im swaying towards BC and GAZ, renault lads bang on about BC being really good.

    I could try to get some more front camber n the front ball joints for Cadwell?
     
  23. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    IMG_3811.JPG Amazing day at a Cadwell today, however the misfire issue through 4th and 5th is still there.
    It loses power and sounds like anti lag.
    It's done it every trackday for 2 years now.
    Even back when I had the pro4 :(
    It's had brand new BKR7EIX, the TFSI coils are only a year old.
    I'm at a loss and it spoils my day every time I'm on track.
    It even does it out on the road, somebody help!
     
  24. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    coils first - regardless of only year old
     
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  25. SHUk

    SHUk Once Bitten Forever Smitten =]

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    Incredible prices for GAZ here... =]

    http://www.larkspeed.com/category/view/GAZGHASUSKITS
     
  26. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    Worth noting that those are the GHA kit, not the Golds. Golds are considerably more, and custom built. Where GHA are an off the shelf road kit.
     
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  27. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Right
    The logs are showing EGT protection after back to back runs through gears.
    When it fuel dumps is when I get the miss.
    I'm thinking this chinafold is no good.
    I'm having thoughts of going back to relentless but having the welds re done
    Any thoughts ?
     
  28. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    relentless flows less well than a ported chinafold (my porting, cant comment about others)
    fuel dump from egt should not cause misfire.. it does'nt on std cars why should it on yours.
    New genuine coils, not used "other" coils off another car (which is'nt running the same spec as you is pointless comparison imho)

    always cyl3 you say... which is'nt the trait of chinafolds original flaw, that was cyl2 misfire.
     
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  29. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed the coil pack harness has lots of cracks.
    Could this be the culprit?
     
  30. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Absolutely
     
  31. SHUk

    SHUk Once Bitten Forever Smitten =]

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    Where can't you get new ones... mine has seen better days =]
     
  32. SamHendry

    SamHendry Active Member

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  34. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Right.
    Back to basics.
    Coil packs and cool pack harness replace first to rule them out.
    I guess with heat of the coil packs start breaking down under load that could cause it.
    And if the cracks in the harness expand and it starts shorting all over the shop that'll cause a miss too ?
     
  35. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    yes
     
  36. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Cheers Bill.

    Harness and OEM standard coil packs going in on pay day
     
  37. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    IMG_3893.JPG IMG_3892.JPG IMG_3889.JPG
     
  38. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Coilpacks and harness picked up from Tyneside Audi today :)
    Let's get these done and pray the miss goes.

    Also, video from Cadwell
     
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  39. superkarl

    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    You're doing damn well to be keeping a 172 off your back. Although I thought you'd gap it more on the straight bits
     
  40. ben4866

    ben4866 Member

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    Got to admit I've had my fair share or Clio's and the smile per £ ratio has got to take some beating, they have that fun raw feeling unlike most of the modern hatches. You can blast them around the track at the weekend and give them back to the wife to do the school run during the week :whistle2:
     
  41. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    Cheers :) The lad driving is a bit older than I am and has been doing trackdays for years, so I too was really happy trying to keep him at bay!

    I thought this too, but in a straight line I was trying to manage that bloody missfire by gently applying the throttle. I was also on map 3 so lower boost trying to manage that missfire!


    100% mate they're brilliant little track cars!

    So much so I think me and my brother are putting the money together to buy one as a joint project !
     
  42. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    IMG_3844.JPG IMG_3842.JPG IMG_3843.JPG
     
  43. scotty_24

    scotty_24 Well-Known Member

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    No photos of the cracked coilpack harness, forgot to take them!
    But here's cyl4 coilpack and bore, looks like the coil packs had it and probs breaking down under load ?
     

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