Is it worth getting carbon cleaning done to car audi a4 b7 2.0 tdi with 156k on clock

tr7

Registered User
I don't know about "Carbon Cleaning" you're talking about

But it's absolutely worth cleaning out the inlet manifold and EGR valve

It will seriously surprise you whats in there if you've never seen it before

photo_2022-05-29 09.09.58.jpeg


This was mine before
photo_2022-05-29 09.10.01.jpeg

photo_2022-05-29 09.10.03.jpeg

photo_2022-05-29 09.10.04.jpeg


And then after

Don't have photos of my EGR when it got cleaned out. But you'll see plenty online and get the idea


Everything gets absolutely caked and coated inside
 

Beany1

Registered User
wow looks good i have a new egr put on and been mapped out the carbon cleaning was a gas they put into my air line
 

Beany1

Registered User
Im trying to figure out when my car gets upto temp it vibrates and shakes at idle but drives normal when its cold engine it dont do it i can hear a rattling noise comin from back area of the engine
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
Is it worth blanking my egr as its been mapped out

Remove your EGR valve completely, and the cooler too. Far less to go wrong.
I've also changed my inlet manifold for the flapless one, thus removed the control motor and vacuum lines too.
I Mr Muscle my turbo at every service, and use 2 stroke oil in my fuel tank. My emissions are way lower

In my opinion carbon cleaning is like snake oil.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
I don't know about "Carbon Cleaning" you're talking about

But it's absolutely worth cleaning out the inlet manifold and EGR valve

It will seriously surprise you whats in there if you've never seen it before

View attachment 255000

This was mine before
View attachment 255001
View attachment 255002
View attachment 255003

And then after

Don't have photos of my EGR when it got cleaned out. But you'll see plenty online and get the idea


Everything gets absolutely caked and coated inside
Why not just swap your manifold for a flapless one?
 
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NM07

Active Member
Gold Supporter
Why not just swap your manifold for a flapless one?
That's what I did. I got the flapless one from Darkside, I couldn't believe how much build up was in my original one!
 
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tr7

Registered User
Why not just swap your manifold for a flapless one?
Frankly because I can't be ***** taking it all off again :tearsofjoy:

But seriously. Only saw recently Darkside do them blasted etc and look like new. As I didn't like the idea of cleaning another one again myself. They're reasonably priced too. Wish they'd do a lot more B7 bits

So I will consider it in the future. But right now the cars getting very little mileage anyway
 

B7Tourer

Member
My intact EGR has only been off once to inspect and clean, in the 60K of my ownership (Car on 230K+ now) and it was really clean. Never had the inlet manifold off but the car runs smoothly and with Shell V-Power diesel, 6K filter/oil changes it smokes very little for a non-dpf 140PD.

I should add, I'm alone amongst diesel 'enthusiasts' (or should that be lepers now? ha ha) in not believing in deleting anything, especially the EGR. Not for any wokey reasons however. Yes it keeps the engine cleaner with more performance, theoretically, but diesel is 'dirty' anyway and there is no real evidence the inlet stays clean, moreover the single biggest drawback is it takes longer for the engine to warm up, especially in the cold.

But just about every car that has problems, starting, idling and smooth running, that I have seen has had the egr deleted and/or been remapped. I've seen people like Beany chase these faults down the rabbit hole when my first starting point would be to put everything back as designed first. These things put greater strain on other components and the engine unfortunately was designed around increasing emissions regulations of up till then Euro 4. I'm happy with the relatively modest though smooth 138BHP and I believe, though just my opinion, if I want more power, it's a bigger better engine needed.
 
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B7Tourer

Member
Case in point, there is a lad on YouTube, who bought a very nice, low mileage fully loaded, 170PS Avant, even had the oil pump changed before he bought it. He instantly deleted the EGR, gutted the DPF and had it remapped; lowered - all that jazz. Then spent a lot of videos chasing down why it stuttered and was flat changing gear. One guy constantly told him put the ecu back to normal, even just temporarily to see - didn't listen and it still stutters, many videos later and a lot of expensive parts, including flap delete, changed.

I long ago I got over the embarrassment of vanman leaving me well behind at the lights (though Teslas still grate - I'd love to follow them for 100+ miles to see when they begin to creep along more slowly), though I doubt vanman ever gets over being left behind when the diesel Audi torque kicks in with a blip of 1 or 2 hundred rpms, on the motorway or the big brand new 4X4s not getting out of my way, up the steep European passes. No, I'm happy with the Old Goat as she his ha ha.

Owning a big fuel tanked diesel is like a case of the The Tortoise and The Hare. Enjoying the satisfaction that there is still nothing on the roads, yet invented that can beat them for going the relaxed distance:racer::blackrs4:
 
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Beany1

Registered User
My cars all standard the only thing is egr been mapped out but still running same power 140 . Found the problem of shaking on idle as i put load on car can see my engine lifting from one side had a look can see passenger mount moving and got big rip in it
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
My intact EGR has only been off once to inspect and clean, in the 60K of my ownership (Car on 230K+ now) and it was really clean. Never had the inlet manifold off but the car runs smoothly and with Shell V-Power diesel, 6K filter/oil changes it smokes very little for a non-dpf 140PD.

I should add, I'm alone amongst diesel 'enthusiasts' (or should that be lepers now? ha ha) in not believing in deleting anything, especially the EGR. Not for any wokey reasons however. Yes it keeps the engine cleaner with more performance, theoretically, but diesel is 'dirty' anyway and there is no real evidence the inlet stays clean, moreover the single biggest drawback is it takes longer for the engine to warm up, especially in the cold.

But just about every car that has problems, starting, idling and smooth running, that I have seen has had the egr deleted and/or been remapped. I've seen people like Beany chase these faults down the rabbit hole when my first starting point would be to put everything back as designed first. These things put greater strain on other components and the engine unfortunately was designed around increasing emissions regulations of up till then Euro 4. I'm happy with the relatively modest though smooth 138BHP and I believe, though just my opinion, if I want more power, it's a bigger better engine needed.
What do you mean "there is no real evidence the inlet stays clean"?
The evidence is there to be seen in the inlet manifold, before and after.
How can you doubt that not re-routing the exhaust back into your inlet manifold is beneficial?
My engine also warms up quicker now and is down on emissions.
 

B7Tourer

Member
What do you mean "there is no real evidence the inlet stays clean"?
The evidence is there to be seen in the inlet manifold, before and after.
How can you doubt that not re-routing the exhaust back into your inlet manifold is beneficial?
Yes sorry that was admittedly a silly thing to say, - what I meant to say was that cleaning out the intake often makes little difference to performance on these cars unless it's really bad (snake oil as someone called it) and as I say my EGR was relatively clean unblanked anyway. It's not necessarily harmful either to have an EGR - my car is on 230K+ as I said, smokes very little (it would even with the EGR blanked since it has no DPF) and runs sweetly. Lower emissions, which are only tested for CO2 though can't be a primary reason to do it, unless your car is regularly failing the MOT. Of course your Nox has gone through the roof now, so your actual emissions are higher obviously - which is the real reason they want to kill off diesels and what ULEZ is based on. I've only once failed on emissions and that was soon after I got it. A lot of things have been put right as standard since then and I've had no further fails. Tests are only going to get tighter and tighter and they've said they want to clamp down on this and DPF gutting. These engines are poor enough in that regard and were unable to meet Euro 5, which is why there were dropped in favour of CR.

My car too gets up to full temp within about 1 or 1 and a 1/2 miles or 5 minutes and I have heat coming into the cabin within a minute, since I installed a new heater matrix (No auxiliary heater on my car either). Even quicker now the weather's getting warmer.

As I say it's just my opinion and I recognise a lonely one and it's not because I believe the nonsense - we have traded smaller relatively inoffensive diesels for gas guzzling petrols - a big V8 SUV with 3 times the CO2 than my car and using up a lot more fossil fuel too, doesn't have to pay 8 quid a day to go into Birmingham, like I do. It's just I don't see the need for it in my car.
 
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tr7

Registered User
I don’t care one bit about the little emissions that may come from an egr being removed.

The entire topic is all a scam to bleed you of more money forever so you’ll be forced into an electric future where everything can be remotely disabled at will.

Its got nothing to do with the environment

-20 Social Credit Points
 

tr7

Registered User
What do you mean "there is no real evidence the inlet stays clean"?
The evidence is there to be seen in the inlet manifold, before and after.
How can you doubt that not re-routing the exhaust back into your inlet manifold is beneficial?
My engine also warms up quicker now and is down on emissions.
Cleaning mine out, which was particularly bad from the previous own was like remapping the car.

Made instant massive difference
 

tr7

Registered User
Case in point, there is a lad on YouTube, who bought a very nice, low mileage fully loaded, 170PS Avant, even had the oil pump changed before he bought it. He instantly deleted the EGR, gutted the DPF and had it remapped; lowered - all that jazz. Then spent a lot of videos chasing down why it stuttered and was flat changing gear. One guy constantly told him put the ecu back to normal, even just temporarily to see - didn't listen and it still stutters, many videos later and a lot of expensive parts, including flap delete, changed.

I long ago I got over the embarrassment of vanman leaving me well behind at the lights (though Teslas still grate - I'd love to follow them for 100+ miles to see when they begin to creep along more slowly), though I doubt vanman ever gets over being left behind when the diesel Audi torque kicks in with a blip of 1 or 2 hundred rpms, on the motorway or the big brand new 4X4s not getting out of my way, up the steep European passes. No, I'm happy with the Old Goat as she his ha ha.

Owning a big fuel tanked diesel is like a case of the The Tortoise and The Hare. Enjoying the satisfaction that there is still nothing on the roads, yet invented that can beat them for going the relaxed distance:racer::blackrs4:
Link to the YouTube series please?
 

B7Tourer

Member
I don’t care one bit about the little emissions that may come from an egr being removed.

The entire topic is all a scam to bleed you of more money forever so you’ll be forced into an electric future where everything can be remotely disabled at will.
I agree tr7 - and Dieselgate was pure and simple US protectionism IMV - 1% of commercial and private vehicles there have ever used diesel. The EPA made limits so strict that they had to cheat, because gaz guzzling yank cars could not compete on economy or quality. The German's mistake was the hubris they had in thinking they could get away with it. And now Tesla is the most valuable car brand in the world - go figure, as they would say. Nonethe less that is why we are where we are now, everywhere - they are determined to kill a technology that still has a lot to offer and is the most economical user of fossil fuels and C02 'global warming' emissions have gone up.

As I said emissions can't be a reason for egr delete, unless it's failing the MOT and if your intake is as bad as the pictures then I agree totally a clean out is in order, and maybe the real reason for any fail - I've not needed or want either, that's all.

 
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Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
I agree tr7 - and Dieselgate was pure and simple US protectionism IMV - 1% of commercial and private vehicles there have ever used diesel. The EPA made limits so strict that they had to cheat, because gaz guzzling yank cars could not compete on economy or quality. The German's mistake was the hubris they had in thinking they could get away with it. And now Tesla is the most valuable car brand in the world - go figure, as they would say. Nonethe less that is why we are where we are now, everywhere - they are determined to kill a technology that still has a lot to offer and is the most economical user of fossil fuels and C02 'global warming' emissions have gone up.

As I said emissions can't be a reason for egr delete, unless it's failing the MOT and if your intake is as bad as the pictures then I agree totally a clean out is in order, and maybe the real reason for any fail - I've not needed or want either, that's all.



My reason for EGR deletion was to simplify things, less to go wrong and a cleaner engine.
With the EGR and cooler removed maintenance is a lot simpler. The take off pipe from the turbo is blanked off, but is the ideal hole for getting Me Muscle into the turbo.
 
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B7Tourer

Member
Here's a quote from Gazwould in the B6 section. It ensures a cleaner diesel burn, and upper cylinder lubricant.
I'm sorry but that is absolute snake oil - there is absolutely no need to add 2 stroke to your fuel and premium diesel is not a 'con'. I understand and can't argue with your reasons to EGR delete, however.
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
I'm sorry but that is absolute snake oil - there is absolutely no need to add 2 stroke to your fuel and premium diesel is not a 'con'. I understand and can't argue with your reasons to EGR delete, however.

And you know this how?
Post a thread about 2 stroke and creat an argument about it. Gazwould (a very opinionated member) will debate you gladly.
Premium diesel is a con, although why mention that? It shows no benefits to fuel consumption or economy. I've done comparisons. Do you know what cetane booster is? It's cheaper than premium diesel
 

tr7

Registered User
I would be interested in this topic

I put premium diesel in for the past near 10 years and not sure it's ever made a difference

Though maybe it's a case of a job well done is one that goes un noticed
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
I would be interested in this topic

I put premium diesel in for the past near 10 years and not sure it's ever made a difference

Though maybe it's a case of a job well done is one that goes un noticed
And how much extra has it cost you over those 10yrs compared to normal diesel?
 

B7Tourer

Member
And you know this how?
Post a thread about 2 stroke and creat an argument about it. Gazwould (a very opinionated member) will debate you gladly.
Premium diesel is a con, although why mention that? It shows no benefits to fuel consumption or economy. I've done comparisons. Do you know what cetane booster is? It's cheaper than premium diesel
I'm not interested in debating with Gazwould. I know this by having a 2.0 TDI 140PS that has covered more than 230K miles and runs like new. It has the original turbo, original everything from what I can make out and it has never received 2 stroke or Redex or any any other snake oil in it's life. Furthermore in over 35 years of motoring both privately and professionally, I have never used Redex or any other Godammed additive, except once, to no effect. What I have always done from a Sunbeam Rapier through many Jags: a 1983 XJ6 with an XK engine at 170K, when everyone said they needed rebuilding at 100K; an XJ40 at 250K - I got it at 100K and 6 years old. Is change the oil and filter at 6K intervals - Just that, no snake oil! And I will add that I saw a vid on YT recently of an 500K + 1.9 TDI Audi that had never been carbon cleaned and the mechanic, who took the engine apart and was very impressed, reckoned it had reached this mileage because a bit of carbon retains the seals on older engines. And my my car runs sweet and clean on Shell V-Power diesel . So you do what you have to do, I'll continue as I am.
 
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Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
I'm not interested in debating with Gazwould. I know this by having a 2.0 TDI 140PS that has covered more than 230K miles and runs like new. It has the original turbo, original everything from what I can make out and it has never received 2 stroke or Redex or any any other snake oil in it's life. Furthermore in over 35 years of motoring both privately and professionally, I have never used Redex or any other Godammed additive, except once, to no effect. What I have always done from a Sunbeam Rapier through many Jags: a 1983 XJ6 with an XK engine at 170K, when everyone said they needed rebuilding at 100K; an XJ40 at 250K - I got it at 100K and 6 years old. Is change the oil and filter at 6K intervals - Just that, no snake oil! And I will add that I saw a vid on YT recently of an 500K + 1.9 TDI Audi that had never been carbon cleaned and the mechanic, who took the engine apart and was very impressed, reckoned it had reached this mileage because a bit of carbon retains the seals on older engines. And my my car runs sweet and clean on Shell V-Power diesel . So you do what you have to do, I'll continue as I am.

So why, in your humble opinion, is Shell V Power so wonderful, what are you comparing it with? How much are you paying per litre, and what is your MPG?
What are you comparing you clean engine to? And how many 2.0tdi engines have you stripped down and inspected, in comparison?
You claim you have "very little smoke". I have NO smoke for a 180k engine, and my emissions are now lower. How do you explain that?
 

Gazwould

Registered User
I see we have an infidel !

I've got 10+ years of mot smoke opacity tests to tell me what works on a diesel .

V Power is a con , no Cetane disclosure on the pump , add your own , much cheaper , JASO FB spec 2T , 2-EHN and the occasional Redex on a 186K Euro 3 .

20201102_160133.jpg


All means this....

20210611_183606.jpg


The car was blowing 2.00 for years , thermostat a part of that but 2 Stroke alone took it from 2.00 to 1.00 , then the thermostat lowered , then 2-EHN lowered again , it's called G- Power or Gazwould blend , whatever you prefer .


B7Tourer what is your engine code ?
 

tr7

Registered User
I see we have an infidel !

I've got 10+ years of mot smoke opacity tests to tell me what works on a diesel .

V Power is a con , no Cetane disclosure on the pump , add your own , much cheaper , JASO FB spec 2T , 2-EHN and the occasional Redex on a 186K Euro 3 .

View attachment 255675

All means this....

View attachment 255676

The car was blowing 2.00 for years , thermostat a part of that but 2 Stroke alone took it from 2.00 to 1.00 , then the thermostat lowered , then 2-EHN lowered again , it's called G- Power or Gazwould blend , whatever you prefer .


B7Tourer what is your engine code ?

Any improvement in real world MPG or just emissions?
 

Gazwould

Registered User
Worth a few just like some other bits .

Not monitored too closely as achieves very good mpg , even better than the Stuttgart and that's not bad either !

On the same G-Power...

20220610_093056.jpg
 

B7Tourer

Member
I see we have an infidel !

I've got 10+ years of mot smoke opacity tests to tell me what works on a diesel .

V Power is a con , no Cetane disclosure on the pump , add your own , much cheaper , JASO FB spec 2T , 2-EHN and the occasional Redex on a 186K Euro 3 .
What are you aiming for? to pass the MOT, extend the car life or to help the environment? As I have already mentioned my car, at 230K+ has passed each MOT in my stewardship, bar the first time I bought it. And proper restoration to spec sorted that. It smokes so little I never see any much now, in the rear. But it is a BRE 140PD without a DPF, so obviously it must. I really don't care about the readouts unless it fails an MOT or there is some objective proof you can provide that this will any anyway aid longevity and I am damaging my engine by not following such an OCD schedule? Why do you think a low smoke readout is the single indicator of the ultimate health of your engine? It may be running too lean. Diesels are known as 'oil burners' - they already have natural lubricant, in the fuel by it's nature.

What are your qualifications for all this? Are you a petro-chemical engineer? An engine designer perhaps? Are all premium fuels cons, in your opinion, or just V-Power? Why do I see a huge material difference between regular 'supermarket' fuel and V-Power? Am I just imagining it? Why are we not all using 2 stoke in diesels and why do all the manufacturers categorically advise against all such additives, in their manuals and upon request? These are rhetorical questions as you can imagine, since I am happy to proceed as I am, as I said, and you too obviously, but you have not swayed me or ingrained huge doubt. And as say I didn't come here to debate since, in this regard, I am not looking for a solution. If I am an infidel, my friend, then you are a member of a rarer sect than me :)
 
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Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
What are you aiming for? to pass the MOT, extend the car life or to help the environment? As I have already mentioned my car, at 230K+ has passed each MOT in my stewardship, bar the first time I bought it. And proper restoration to spec sorted that. It smokes so little I never see any much now, in the rear. But it is a BRE 140PD without a DPF, so obviously it must. I really don't care about the readouts unless it fails an MOT or there is some objective proof you can provide that this will any anyway aid longevity and I am damaging my engine by not following such an OCD schedule? Why do you think a low smoke readout is the single indicator of the ultimate health of your engine? It may be running too lean. Diesels are known as 'oil burners' - they already have natural lubricant, in the fuel by it's nature.

What are your qualifications for all this? Are you a petro-chemical engineer? An engine designer perhaps? Are all premium fuels cons, in your opinion, or just V-Power? Why do I see a huge material difference between regular 'supermarket' fuel and V-Power? Am I just imagining it? Why are we not all using 2 stoke in diesels and why do all the manufacturers categorically advise against all such additives, in their manuals and upon request? These are rhetorical questions as you can imagine, since I am happy to proceed as I am, as I said, and you too obviously, but you have not swayed me or ingrained huge doubt. And as say I didn't come here to debate since, in this regard, I am not looking for a solution. If I am an infidel, my friend, then you are a member of a rarer sect than me :)

Explain to me (if you can, without debating) how putting exhaust gasses back into the air intake is good for an engine.
It's been likened to an engine eating its own poop. Engine manufacturers don't design their engines for longevity these days, or else how would they make money.

What is your "huge material difference"?
 

Gazwould

Registered User
The oil industry is incredibly secretive because they want to have us over , there is no such thing as 'supermarket fuel'.

I do hope you've taken care of your BRE and given it a modified remanufactured #2 balancer shaft with a longer 100mm drive key ?
 

Pie-eyedpiper

Registered User
The oil industry is incredibly secretive because they want to have us over , there is no such thing as 'supermarket fuel'.

I do hope you've taken care of your BRE and given it a modified remanufactured #2 balancer shaft with a longer 100mm drive key ?
I doubt it. He wants to keep things "standard".
 

NM07

Active Member
Gold Supporter
I've seen the discussion of 2 stroke oil in diesel many times across many different forums, however, all the mentioned benefits had been anecdotal, and were never reinforced with any scientific test results. I recently came across this article which set out to either prove / disprove it:


Definitely an interesting read! I will let everyone draw their own conclusions. Personally, I haven't seen a benefit when I tried using 2 stroke oil in my last car, so won't be using it in my current one.
 

Gazwould

Registered User
Very similar to the JASO FC spec 2T 'white paper' hugely flawed when those in the know use mineral low ash FB spec !

I've got over a decade of smoke opacity MOT tests and the one year change point was 1.50 from every other or when I remembered to add .

There is no other intervention or explanation why over years 2.00 becomes 1.00 .
 

B7Tourer

Member
I do hope you've taken care of your BRE and given it a modified remanufactured #2 balancer shaft with a longer 100mm drive key ?
It's booked in for July the 19th for the KMB upgrade + cambelt etc (Gear driven according to KMB - Kit 9). I have to thank you for that, sincerely. Even though this engine is now on 230K+ and given it is a very ordinary Avant, I would be surprised if it was ever done but it has lasted beyond the responsibility of its manufacturers and so I imagine long life and poor services killed lots of them. I'll report back with a photo of the hex key.

Explain to me (if you can, without debating) how putting exhaust gasses back into the air intake is good for an engine.
It's been likened to an engine eating its own poop. Engine manufacturers don't design their engines for longevity these days, or else how would they make money.

What is your "huge material difference"?
It's completely negative to performance I agree, for ludicrous emissions strictness, but not necessarily injurious to a well designed engine. Are you not listening to what I have said - do you think I am lying about the mileage of my car? The 500K+ 1.9 PD I referenced earlier was untouched too.

My car runs absolutely smoothly since I stuck to V-Power. Whenever I tried cheap sh 1 t from supermarkets it didn't. Maybe it's placebo or not, maybe the additives are too. Why are you so defensive and invested in this? I said do what you have to I'll continue as I am.
 
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B7Tourer

Member
I might add folks, I was behind a lovely P6 Rover in perfect perhaps restored condition the other day - I think a 2000TC, though I may be wrong. The driver too was very smartly dressed. I always loved them from being a kid. A pleasure to see but by God did it's exhaust fumes stink! It wasn't smoking at all but it wreaked thru my air con - we have come a long way - even with our old B7s and not all emissions controls are evil.
 
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